1st girl who could ever know for sure that it was. insupportable. over. the degree of what. museums are tremendous instruments for creating knowledge. one of the things that confronts ethnological museums today is the need to understand the way in which our pasts are bedded in colonial history the way we present the objects in museums speaks volumes about the way in which we understand ourselves other people the past the present and our hopes for the future.

once again there is a palace in the heart of berlin. the rebuilt historical berlin palace its resurrection has triggered a torrent of debate what signal is being sent by reconstructing in a period of royal residence. the most controversial aspect of the palace is its utilization planning as the humble forum behind the gleaming baroque facade is a modern building which is also designated as the new site of the ethnological museum key parts of its collection originate from the colonial era. jonathan fine has headed the ethnological museum since 2020 we've had the opportunity to follow some of his work. over the last 5 years in this ring how will the humboldt forum

deal with the burden of its colonial legacy. in 2021 we accompany jonathan fine on a tour of the almost complete but largely empty exhibition rooms together with the exhibition designer tim than to me. these collections or things that when we look at them today are very difficult i want to cite a colleague who said if we looked at these museums today we would probably never build them and if we looked at these collections today we would probably never assemble them but they're here day exist and we now have to decide what to do with them. the museum complex and dollar the location of west berlin ethnological museum for almost 50 years began preparing in 2016 for the move to the humbled forum. we 1st met jonathan fine during this transition period at the time he was the curator for west

africa cameroon gone. as well as the coordinator of providence research at the museum and the world around us is the product of 500 years of european colonization . with the decision to display the collections from around the world from asia from africa from oceania in the humboldt forum a discussion was kicked off in a prominent way in a more prominent way than was possible before about what that history mean it's. because of the prominence of the building and its prominence in the capital of germany in berlin at the center of this capital on museum island i think the humble forum offers an unparalleled opportunity to come to terms with or to ask questions about difficult periods in not just german history but world history.

aiming for a more open exchange on how to handle objects from the problematic german colonial era and what is now in the may be jonathan fine initiated a project to study their provenance together with namibian institutions. this critical engagement with collection pieces that may be burdened with colonial violence is intended to take the discussion in a different direction an exhibition in the humble forum will give an insight into the joint research process we entered a cooperation with the museums association of namibia and the national museum of now maybe a and we asked them to choose the partners and they sent a fantastic group of scholars of cultural heritage officers of artists to berlin who worked with us close to a year about the collection here in berlin and talking about it and understanding it. i'm a fashion designer clothing technologist i studied in germany this is why the

fashion design community thought that i was the person to actually send to berlin our history on fashion is a bought by rock rock rock wall and all the timeline of the european timeline but nothing about africa it's about time that we start running into writing our own history and these objects can help us get to. where are the 3 projection for patrol this is known but the program and then this here would be the homes were supposed to be rolled so that it can depress into points from the front we've only seen one that's removed most of them appeared open on roald i think we like to think about museums as places that store objects well but i think you know when you see something like this you see an example of an object that haven't been sort of really stored in a way that deformed over time i've discovered for instance. it covers the head of

the hair or woman it is very important that is always covered the little crown on top is the pride of the woman once a woman is wearing that it's you cannot just take it off in public the like you will take off my head this is where you start wondering but how did they get it because no hair or woman would take off their corrie and give it to somebody it's hard to underestimate how little people understood about the objects that they that they had brought into the museum i think it's summer and. you know and if you would hang around the neck or do. it season your heart and. you don't carry it around with you ok the shell of the turtle there is herbs and powder in there that you used for cleansing yourself as a woman. and there are many of those objects something that is very close to me is

the door and then if you look closer it was hence to choose very even hand stitches which is telling me that it was done by a child with the lady on the hearts. she says. you can definitely see she's wearing a pretty coat. it's a child my grandmother used to tell me the arrows are wearing more than one particle because they're scared to be raped and this is what you see this a better coat and everything i want to look at this is just. it brings out the emotions it took some something from a child you brought a tear you never shoulder to the world that this is what children in a movie are making you put it in a box in a museum does that and that sort. really . you know well you know no you have to check that it is and that. has

level so that means that you can read from from the updates. i think this outfit's can tell of this terrorist but the media and germany that we cannot just say well it's taken from them yeah let's take them back even when they take to the media when i mean yet they might put. this objects have obviously connected and chumming and just pretending that it's not enough so in the media and germany to continue in gauging we see chad through these objects my wish all these objects will go home. the next phase in this process is to bring objects back to namibia to expand the conversation and if they want to make a case for returning them permanently for keeping them in the media then i fully

expect that out of the conversations they will be able to make that case and make that request here you'll see an ordinance dilution by a member be in fashion artist's name cynthia shimming it shows to me. a figure a woman trying to break out of the cabinet trying to break out of this part of it and behind her she's carrying a blanket and is covered with black and white photographs and many of those pictures are very upsetting pictures of people being mistreated in chains hanged and things like that and we work very very hard. so that you'll only be able to see some of that because oftentimes very violent photographs. can to the lead. a viewer in a sense i mean they end up producing the impact of what's actually going on there.

the location where her work will be exhibited still seems questionable to send. the homeward forum and. i don't i don't understand. i don't even understand why. they reconstructed the whole boarding and what message are they trying to bring by doing this. the reconstructed facade of the berlin palace where german colonial policy was once pursued is a contradictory symbol for the humbled forum is this an appropriate place for exhibitions on such a problematic chapter of history. we meet the head of the berlin savvy artspace bon of and to us to kong an internationally renowned curator who has worked for the documentary exhibition his exhibitions examine the present day effects of colonialism and the challenge of displaying foreign cultures in european museums. he argues for

a fundamental change in perspective. what knowledge is created. when you bring the so-called objects over us we have to go back to the huge tree of graphic museums we have to go back to. the birth of the notion of anthropology to be able to understand what went wrong and i think that at the core of all of that is. ease the creation of the other when we do. talk about. history's. situation it is not about all of this it's about us all.

how can you enable such a shift in perspective. in 2017 jonathan fine curated the exhibition beyond compare and berlin's botha museum. it juxtaposed to european mostly christian influenced art with works of art from africa posing a fundamental question are we still seeing the world through a colonial lens when for instance we regard christian cult object as art but perceive african art as cult objects. can the humble form question and change such perceptions. many curators have spent decades working on these topics of social justice and provenance and working with source communities and wanted from the beginning to make that the topic of the exhibition. over. so this is the pedestal where we're going

to be putting. the throne from the bottom kingdom. remarkable object it brings to a point a lot of this sort of questions that people have about the colonial era. the man do you knew throne was a birthday present from the king joy in cameroon to kaiser vilhelm the 2nd a genuine royal gift or a payment of tribute to the colonial power i always thought it was a gift to the kaiser is that not the story well it is that it's gifts are complicated we know that he really didn't want to give up the stone and the what went through his mind what calculation did he have to make was he going to lose face if he didn't give something important to the cause or was he going to lose. our if you didn't give something important to the cause. how should this gift be handled today.

in 2017 we accompanied jonathan fine to cameroon on the traces of the man do you know the throne. how do people here feel about their colonial history. if the throne had not ended up in berlin it would belong today to this man. joya the sultan of them and grandson of king joy who range during the german colonial era. thanks. to. the german colonial system in cameroon was violent and characterized by deceit trickery and manipulation as well as the use of military and political force because king joy offered an alliance to the drums the situation in the bomb kingdom

was comparatively peaceful. was one of the most skilled political actors that i've had the chance to study he tirelessly sought to preserve his own autonomy within the very difficult political situation that was presented by the colonial era. the palace administrator a staff member close to the sultan is involved in preserving the cultural heritage of the. men to gain it is missing here in the throne room is a thorny issue. kush we keep us use every day that goes by we are obliged to talk about this thrown yesterday the tourists come here constantly asking. scrooges what is the throne of the kings of bar move doing in berlin fear of being ever.

like you some people are saying those germans stole our thrones and when you talk. yeah these are some beliefs it wasn't a gift. or if it was it was a forced gift for 3. a and how can you answer this question security. you know there is no official answer will he see all. that diplomatic response reveals how troublesome issue still is. and from bonn we get a sense of how objects from the colonial context could stand side by side with living social spiritual and artistic traditions in their place of origin. it's an

environment that western museums could hardly provide. while. in the car use my house is a studio is all of my daily while we have one. because the sap is very big we sit here and sissoko shiprock i'm sorry. artist embroidered the new royal throne for the palace he also works as a restore for the palace museum why. on so hawt. in 2017 workers here packed up their collection to move it into the new royal museum. spectacular architecture is dominated by symbolism from the moon's royal crest a 2 headed snake wrapped around an earth spider. just like in berlin's ethnological museum staff here and from ban also had to

consider how to deal with the colonial past. sits in the who would do is a very good one this hall is completely dedicated to king enjoy one this walk in the time of his reign is often compared with louis the 14th and france there you express your will he oversaw a cultural explosion a blossoming of creativity and also a synthesis between the christian western world and the world of bomb moonstone. see that is over and that's why in your culture we view king enjoy as a genius and she. has at what are your expectations for the relationship between germany and the kingdom of by moon today and in the future and pull of india. destined for this at this show thank you very much for asking that question to tears it

probably we consider that a woman enters a marriage with germany back then in because it was expedient to do so book so in the how should i describe the relationship today 0 divorce. in the settlement but hopefully not suite the whole frame oh yeah we're really hoping for a revival of our relations through greater cultural cooperation us home. could threaten the the germans will understand the mutual benefits involved in helping us to preserve our cultural heritage you know but you don't want to have returns your through to the throne that is in berlin is an ambassador for rich culture. one of the things i took away from our discussions and from was the clear

wish for germany to live up to its historical promise of friendship and i think one of the things we can do is make that expectation clearer to the german public and to make that expectation clearer to german politicians. it's time to engage more deeply in this cultural dialogue. several years have now passed since our visit to form bonn what should this dialogue look like one of and 2 in the current grew up 100 kilometers from form bonn and has heard about the throne since he was a child. the cultural ambassador of germany to the us doesn't belong to the us it belongs to germany right. then we should apply if you want to use the analogy of the cultural ambassador of the throne should belong to the people of right so. i'm all for cultural ambassadors so let me say in also

a very important work from its you know culture to come as a cultural ambassador i would put it in the museum a swot it is fine but to do that it is a one way street so if you want to look at shared heritage let's share it everybody's every day and not just some peoples and others not what should happen to the throne in the future for me is very much an open question because like many of the things in the. we now have this past we've looked into where we are looking into it and as we know more about it we may want to make different decisions about what should happen to the objects for the future should they go back to their stand germany and that's a decision that i think can only be taken. in consultation and dialogue with our colleagues and camera perhaps they should go back but even if they do i feel like the story you're telling us to still be told here giving an object back

doesn't mean that history goes away. the history of a collection is intrinsically linked with the exhibits themselves and that history does need to be told in the humbled forum while preparing the move to the forum jonathan fine join conservators from the museum to inspect some of the collections most controversial exhibits that the name brands of. these masterpieces from the former kingdom have been in in what is now nigeria were looted by british forces in 1970 the artifacts were later sold on the art market. these brands and ivory sculptures have become an acid test of whether the humble forum is genuinely prepare. to take a new approach and enter a dialogue with former colonies as equals for decades nigeria has called for the return of these treasures only now in 2021 are things beginning to happen how does

the process of restitution work and why are museums so reluctant to proceed with it just for fun but accomplishing that as a rule the 1st and most important step in returning artworks is making recommendations as to what we want to give back that has to be decided by the board of the prussian cultural heritage foundation's use director to that's not something that the president or the museum director can design and another important question that needs to be clarified is who the rightful recipient is here in vs what is it the state or a national museum system is it a local community and that's quite complicated for but just to be clear we will be returning been in branson almost on a good beatin new production sort of. part of the bin in works will be returned but part is to remain on display at the humboldt forum so how can these tainted exhibits be displayed appropriately. this is where this multimedia program

which is really a multi screen film right will be presented and all the voices from europe and africa including the oboe. and scholars from africa will talk about the provenance of the burning bronzes the ideas. using very simple questions to get people to open up and talk openly what are the benny and bronzes. what do they mean to you. what should happen to them in the future and then to really hear what people have to say about that topic this concept of really exhibiting the discussion of provenance and the work of the bringing dialogue group was already there when i started 10 years ago and that's been really the central theme of this entire room of the exhibit what is the future what should happen to these objects that's an openness that that i really treasure about this process. 'd

cultural institutions find themselves battling to remain relevant in their societies. confronting a difficult colonial past poses not only a challenge but also a huge opportunity for museums to take the lead in shaping an important public debate. will the humboldt forum successfully rise to the challenge. i think it would be a success if we take the idea of a forum at its word and think of the humbled forum not as a place that will give us answers to our questions but will enable us to pose questions only. in that way i think can we come to an understanding and find answers for ourselves about what 500 years of european colonization has meant for the world we live in.

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is day that the news live from the bald mobilizes to try and turn around the current virus catastrophe in india germany and the european union have medical aid on the way so to begin ited states and britain countries all saving oxygen and other supplies desperately needed to keep people alive also coming up. funerals began for more than 80 people who died in a fire at the swiss.