when young people clearly had the solutions, the future 77 percent. now, every weekend on the w. the news, when a fire in itself is not an a, your government has the intention of allowing yourself in palestinian state to be creative. does it the palestinians refusing again to come from that goes with a violent confrontation between israel and the palestinians has gone into its 2nd week with consulting mounting around the world at the high number of civilians, especially in gaza. i guess this week from jerusalem is michael freeman, policy advisor, israel's foreign minister when he comes here now listen to the key criticisms being leveled by the biden administration. go back to seeking

a 2 state solution. the michael freeman welcomes comfort zone. thank you for having me. last sunday, israeli forces killed at least 42 people in gaza, including at least 10 children that was in one day. your prime minister is on record as saying, hum austin, islamic jihad paid and will pay a very heavy price for the belligerents that blood is forfeit. well, by now the death toll is well over a 100 and the 61 children reported that is not enough blood that's been forfeited. this is not about, you know, that the death of innocence for us is a tragedy. and this is about come us who've been firing rockets that is right and making and making sure the come off can do that again. you know the 3700 rockets fired from within garza into israeli towns and cities and villages. and so the

civilian population and we are doing what we need to do to defend our civilians. any country would do in order to do that, i understand, but what's an acceptable level of casualties for you among the palestinian population for this punishment operation of yours? well, there's no acceptable level of casualties. we don't want any casualties. every civilian casualty, every loss of life innocence is a tragedy before i'm israeli, before someone's palestinian what human beings and the death of an innocent human being is an absolute tragedy. and we need to do everything we can to try and avoid those civilian casualties and do everything we can. and that's what we're doing. and that's what we will continue to do when we, when we, when we're carrying out this operation to reduce come off capability. this is about and trying to make sure that you don't have the ability and don't have the rockets to carry on attacking us. if you want to reduce civilian casualties, why not accept the si, fi that's been offered in those his father countries around the world calling for

when i say fire in itself is not an aim, the a mustn't be adjusted every other time. but, but every time, every time we've had to cease by the fire is only have lasted 2448 hours a week or 2 weeks, or it's ended up being that is round. does the ceasing and come us through the firing? we need to make sure that, that we, whatever happens now, we have a sustainable period of calm so that this is not something that happens again in a few months time. but rob, come us understand that attacking israel is not worth their while, and they will then what we will have a long period without any conflict that's in the interest of both these ratings and palestinian. the death of so many palestinian children raises questions about whether your response has been proportionate. a key factor in determining whether you acted legitimately did you because in the face of it, there's nothing proportionate about killing and injuring 20 times the number of people killed by your enemies. whether it's the,

the issue about proportionality is the water, the number of rockets that have being fight us on the threat, the way receiving, you know, ultimately there's a fundamental difference between the democratic state of israel and the radical terrorism is terrorists of come up. whereas we, humans are the same values. we're talking about human beings, human being, whether they were palestinians or reading. absolutely, absolutely. the death of human beings on each side is tragic. you know, i'm a father of 2 young children. and when i look at my children, i think about their future and what i want for the future. but i also think about palestinian children about their future and about what is important for them. i want to see them grow up with hopes i want to see them grow up with the future. i want to see them grow up with the, with, with, with better ideas and opportunities there. but in freeman my my, my point is, but in order to do that we need to, we need to make sure that there is come out of there. come us are the ones who are stealing the future of palestinian children to fremont. you made that point. my

point is that you can argue justification and self defense, but it's hard to argue that the scale of damage and bloodshed that you inflict is proportionate, isn't it? that's not much, much harder to argue what we are doing. everything we can, as i said, to avoid civilian casualties where you say the difference between us is if we use our weapons to defend down civilians and how much uses their civilians to defend their weapons. your hospital isn't primary centers. you're hitting hospitals and primary health care when, when, when, when, when, when, well, when, when we are making sure that what we target weapons supplies and we are targeting, where come us putting their command and control centers. they're deliberately putting their weapon places into, into next to schools in next to hospitals into civilian areas. that's what come on to and if we're going to try and stop, come us from having these weapons and to give the palestinians a better future,

we need to destroy these weapons stores. and that there's going to doesn't really know civility, even if they put that military installations, coastal hospitals, it doesn't relieve you of the responsibility of sparing those hospitals and medical centers in the complex situation. you have that responsibility. you don't seem to be following that. what as far as i'm aware, we haven't had any hospitals and in gods, there are 2 things that we do. first thing, we check the number of civilians over there. and if we see, there are a number of indians in the area we call off any air strike or any or anything we're going to do because we want to avoid civilians and we give warnings to all those in the area. if we're going to destroy a building and we're going to do a command and control center from phoning people from giving warning shots in advance, we do everything we possibly can with, with those kinds of things. and as you well know, tim, when western countries face and fight against the terror organization embedded in civilian populations,

israel is doing very well writ written relatively in terms of avoiding civilian casualties compared to other western countries have had face the same situation. mr . freeman, let's take your destruction of the gaza building, which has the associated press and al jazeera. you claim that hamas also operated from that, but the n g o reporters without borders says it has reason to believe your military, intentionally targeted media organizations and intentionally destroyed their equipment. is that true? i completely reject that. that's. that's a proposed with suggestion. israel is known for a free, an open press. you've been here number of times your sales, you know, the press, they have complete freedom. we have a democratic system, we have debate, we have numbers of newspapers and televisions, and everybody is free to go about. we have absolutely nothing against the press quite the opposite. we encourage the press to operate air and to shine a light on things. if anything,

it's how much to do not want the press and do not want people looking at what they're doing. well, we're not born in the house reproaches. boat is a challenge that it said by the 17th of may. your forces had destroyed the offices of 23 international and local media organizations. that doesn't sound much like an accident. does it more of a pattern? is it well, when we, the building that you refer to, we targeted could come up, come off, had a command and controls into that they were planning terrorist activities against the communities outside the inside is right outside of the god of border. they were planning specific tara operations from within that building and noticed event, our citizens, we decided to stop them being able to attack us. we gave everybody plenty of warning and plenty of time before we destroyed that. i'm not disputing that you gave a warning, but us secretary of state lincoln said he has not been given additional intelligence material about the attack on this building. but he has pointedly declined to support your declared motivation for the strike. my question is,

will you assist an independent investigation which is calling for when we, we have provided, as you said, we provide intelligence information to our allies in america, which clearly show the status of that building, being used by the terror organization. and we hope that we will be able to, in the near future declassify more of that information. so the world can see exactly how come up with cynically manipulating the media, manipulating the civilian infrastructure in order to put themselves in that building supreme. and let's just look at some of the background to this latest violence. there were weeks of clashes in east jerusalem before the fighting began in the gaza strip. and in some of your cities, why within those serious attempts to de escalate the growing tensions? well actually we made a number of attempts to de escalate the. they're putting out, putting a barrier stop palestinians gathering in the evening at the damascus gate that was

pretty inflammatory while we were. and after a couple of days we remove the barriers, but we did, we took another a number of other steps as well. we banned jews from going to the temple mount the holiest sites in judaism. we banned them from going up there, including during the jerusalem day, the jerusalem dry day parade, but we hold every year. we change the roots of that. the court case that was going on in the supreme court. we delayed it for, for a month. the number of in century balloon attacks that were being fired over from gaza, setting fire to voc swain's of agricultural of agricultural land in the border inside is round. we didn't respond in any way to that. we did everything we possibly could to de escalate, but come on, you didn't, would you everything did you because you had police firing rubber bullets inside the mosque, the the 3rd holiest shrine in islam and in the middle of the holy month of ramadan . now that wasn't calculated to come tension, was it with tim,

from ever since israel has been in control of the the old fifty's since 967, we've guaranteed freedom of religion and freedom of worship. and every year, hundreds of thousands of muslims come to the temple come to the temple mount and they pray at the alex and most during ramadan, hundreds of thousands of wasn't every year. you're sharing my question, i'm talking about foreign robin. i'm coming to know i'm coming to it. i'm coming to it. i'm coming to hundreds of thousands of moves and pray peacefully. this year. for some reason the. there were a small group of people of agitators, big, big, dictated to by comma, who decided to gather stones and gather rocks, and gather fireworks and gather slaves, and to throw them on the jewish worship. visit the western war below to throw fireworks at them to throw rocks at them to attack the police, who were in the area. and the police like in any other country decided to restore order because praying is something we encourage. praying and worship is something we want on the temple mount having a group of radicals and extremists who are going to be attacking and preventing

people from worship. that's not acceptable when we acted as any country would to restore lauren or the lower orders important. i'm very wrong and they say they were being provoked by jewish extremist. mr. mr. freeman, even though the fighting has gone on the white house's signal, serious concern, not just about your evictions of palestinians. you mentioned the ongoing court case which, which was delayed, but about the frequent bulldozing of palestinian homes on may. the 11th joe biden spokesperson said, us officials had spoken candidly to you about these issues and about how those evictions and demolitions work against what she called our common interest in achieving the solution to the conflict. in other words, stop it. are you going to stop it? these evictions things while they there that the situation and shape gera to court case, we have a number of palestinians who live in and in these,

in these buildings and changed our policy. and i was, we live in east jerusalem. and there is an ongoing court case, and there's a number of them who say that they don't recognize the rights of the jewish people who say they own the building. there are a number of people who are number be assigned to least with the people who are in the building and therefore recognize. but it stopped paying. it's gone through the quarter over 10 years. and the supreme court in israel will make a ruling on this. and the supreme court, and the judiciary is right, is recognized as an independent judiciary, which is well respected throughout the world for it's for it's independence and for it's judy prudence, and i assume it's not just shake gera, the white house he's talking about last year, according to the u. n. u demolished 848 palestinian structure in the west bank and jerusalem. displacing almost a 1000 people. as i said, according to you and are you going? are you going to stop doing this? because this is what is causing concern at the white house,

the highest levels of the us administration, the way we, we will, we want to encourage a piece processing discussion with the palestinians when people are building illegally, then the civil, the civil authorities, make sure that people don't build it equally, those buildings can often be dangerous. they can be in stable or unstable, and they can cause a dangerous both to the inhabitants and to the people around them. but the real and all of these issues that of the, you're talking about need to be discussed in conversations with the palestinians, face to face, and the palestinians, and refusing again to come to negotiations with us. you know, my, my, my boss, the, for the foreign minister was called repeatedly for the palestinians to come to the table and to intimate goes jason's with us and to move these issues forward. so that's really what we would like to see happen. this white house, once a political settlement that leads to a 2 state solution, but your government has the intention of allowing a sovereign palestinian state to be created. does it what the 1st stage needs to be

the pallet thing that comes from negotiate and table. there's nothing we can't talk about where what the end of the process and you can we've had a roster contradictory statements from your government over the years about how they're not going to allow a palestinian state in 2015. your prime minister said benjamin netanyahu, if i'm elected, there won't be a palestinian state in 2017. he said, what i'm prepared to give the palestinians isn't exactly a state with all the past, but a state minus and you'll cabinet minister saki headache me, said last june. israeli settlers don't need to worry because there will never be a palestinian state. so that's why i ask you whether you have ruled out a 2 state solution. it things from these comments that you absolutely have. what i, as i said to the important thing is to stop and go stations and see where the negotiations go. but it's already, they've already said, well, we need to, we need to,

we also need to see what any palestinian state would be if a palestinian state is going to be garza or it's going to be serial or it's going to be iraq or it's going to be another failed state that doesn't have any rights and has internal conflicts and war and bombings. and there isn't an attacking israel as a neighbor then that's certainly not in the interest of israel. i would argue it's not an interest of the palestinians, and it's not in the interest of the neighborhood. so we have to establish exactly what form of state we're talking about. and we have to have negotiations with the palestinians. and if the kind of thing is the willing to talk to us and to negotiate with us, i am sure that we will come to an answer and something that works both israel and the part of thing is it needs to do. you've already opinions, you've already given your answers with the quote. so i just gave you, president biden said last week, he wants to see steps to enable the palestinian people to enjoy dignity, security, and freedom. the implication being that they don't have any of those things when it

israel going to take those steps. well, we would like to see the same thing. i want to say the palestinians have a better future. i want to see them have freedom. i want to see them have all of those, all of those things that you mentioned to him. but at the moment as you know, god was controlled by us. the palestinian areas are controlled by by the palestinian authority. they haven't had free elections in 15 years in the, in those areas there in garza come out who received billions of dollars of aid instead of spending that money on hospitals, on schools, on even vaccines for cobra. they spend that money on building tara networks on building rockets on building tunnels for the palestinians to have a better future, which is in it's in my interest. i want the palestinians to have a better future. i want their children to have the same hopes and the same opportunities that my children have been ordered to do, that they need to have a leadership interest. and if you genuinely wanted those things you were talking

about, you do something about the fact that millions of palestinians in the occupied territories have no right to the government whose armies rule whose army rules over them. even palestinians who are permanent residents of jerusalem can't take part in national elections. why not? well, the palestinians who live in the west bank and gaza can take part in elections at the palestinian authority, would have them in 2000. and 6 was the last elections they have for the and they haven't had these rail. i'm talking about elections when a government of israel, the occupying power in west bank in east jerusalem, a senator bonnie saunders himself, a jew, put it over the weekend. israel remains the one sovereign authority in the land of israel and palestine, and rather than preparing for peace and justice, its been entrenching its army corps and democratic control. i suppose you'd say he doesn't know what he's talking about. what i think we have to separate between

israel and the, the west bank and gaza inside israel. every citizen jew, arab christian was slim. it doesn't matter who has the right to vote and have full democratic, right? you know, we've, as you know, we've had 4 elections in the 1000000 in the west bank, gaza, nice to meet someone who, who don't have the live on the israeli of the patient. but the palestinians in the west bank and gaza have autonomy and have their own elections for their own leadership. the fact the leadership haven't held elections in 15 years is not an issue that israel has to deal with. that's an issue for the palestinian leadership . the palestinians in the world and the palestinians offer tony on i and i step of the process and the know of course they got that also me and they got that process . the fact they haven't had an election in 15 years surely can't be blank when i'm not sure about that rights to take part in us the latest human rights report,

but they're not part of it but tempered but him. but then they are saying, and they are the only thing that the kind of thing you living in the west bank on israeli citizen. and as you said, you have your rule because as your supreme court told you back in 2004, you hold that area in belligerent occupation. and now you're telling me, you know, for an agreement. but we're, we're, but in international agreements, we saw with the palestinians with the pallet 30, they are the responsible to them and to hold elections. and they haven't held elections for their own people. you seem to be avoiding the fact that the latest state department human rights report 2 months ago, highlighted widespread discrimination, suffered by palestinians and other minorities under your effective rule. have you read this report or don't you bother with them? of course we read all the reports so you will know that it says arab muslims, along with christians, jews, and ethiopian citizens face persistent institutional and societal discrimination.

exactly the same criticism that it flags up year after year about which israel does precisely nothing. why isn't it? well, i don't agree that it does nothing. i think that israel is taking significant steps to, to, to address these issues. but you're right, like other countries in the world we have, we have full, you know, there are every country, every democratic country in the world has schools will perfect. i'm not here to tell you that israel is a perfect company. so just massively screaming again. we've got we've got, well, we've got problems and we've got challenges and if you're talking about israeli arabs and you're talking about other minorities with an israel, it's an issue that we have to deal with is which way we're challenging. i'm for example, about being worried about when i, when i don't think, i don't think we have ignored it. for example, in higher education in the last 7 years, there's been an 80 percent increase in the number of israeli arabs who are going

into higher education. there are programs to invest significantly in the last 3 to 5 years. the amounts of money that we've invested in the arab sector in society is greater than anything we've invested ever before. we are consistently working on these issues, but you're right tim. but what about, what about, for instance, well, report has that all those provides that all residents of jerusalem a fully and equally eligible for public services. the municipality and other authorities failed to provide sufficient social services, education, infrastructure and emergency planning for palestinian neighbourhood. why that discrimination, mister freeman, why? what? because i've, i said you were working to address some of these issues. but if we take from just as an example of the recent covert outbreak and the vaccination campaign that is right around our most successful campaign, we vaccinated every single israeli, whether they would do whether they were arab, their christian wisdom,

every single person was vaccinated. it didn't matter who they were or where they were, they were vaccinate according to age and only according to age. and then as they went down everybody's been vaccinated. and that's the reason that today we don't have cov, it as a serious issue inside israel because our entire population, every single person jew arab from jerusalem, east, jerusalem, west jerusalem from the north of the country, the south, the country everybody's been vaccinated, including by the way, hundreds of thousands of palestinians that we've also vaccinated and a lot of fantasy and in the west bank and, and eastern was to them who were turned out of their houses in the middle of the pandemic. you don't mention that mr. freeman in the time we've got left. if the biden administration office to restart torps, will you sit down and address the institutional and societal discrimination to which the us, your closest ally says you've subjected the palestinians. when you do that, we can calling on the pallet thing and to return to negotiations and to have

discussions with our. so if, if anybody can bring the palestinians to the table, then that would be a positive thing. we need the palestinian authority to do that. we need them to come to the table and say they are willing to talk to us and willing to discuss a better future for israelis. i'm for palestinians with certainly in favor of them . a few years ago, your former prime minister barak warned you that if the occupation continued, israel, he said, would inevitably become either non jewish or non democratic human rights group, say you've chosen the non democratic option. donald trump didn't mind that, but it seems that biden and his party do mind, are you ready for rocky? right. with this administration is rollin and america. i have a very, very strong relation. we have a very strong relation with president by doing the vibe and ministration. and we've seen over the last couple of days in the last couple of weeks, america and president biden steadfast support for israel and israel's right to defend itself. and that israel and american relations of bipartisan and fall

using where base is far less steadfast support from the u. s. congress, particularly from democratic senators who have now floated the idea of holding up arms shipments. do you because they don't like what you've been doing with the palestinians over the last few days that knew that hadn't happened before? there were the relationship, but the ration said with his route in america is, is a longstanding and it's bipartisan. and it really does cross old both parties in america. and we see of, you know, the parts of the democratic party, you know, that that was such a, we have a very strong relationship with the, with the democratic party, which is historic. you know, when i, when i come into the office every single day in the ministry of foreign affairs downstairs, very pen that was used by president truman to sign the recognition of the state of israel freeman mccracken president. i'm afraid we're out of time. thanks very much

for being uncomfort. so thank you. thank you very much. the news. news. news. the news . the news

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a special monday to friday on dw, the it's been ongoing quiz or business in the spring began in 2011 people stood up against corrupt, rulers, and dictatorship. all these moments have left the box in my memory. they had hoped for more security, more freedom, more dignity, have their hopes until 10 years after the arab spring, rebellion starts june 7th on d. w. the

news . this is e w. a news lives from bernard for us. president tells israel prime minister he expects the destination to pave the way 1st the spire with him on militant box. benjamin netanyahu says he's determined to continue the gaza offensive as the violence rages on to come off. fires will rockets into israel, sending people they're running for cover also coming.