the, you know, on this channel be a way to act and then it gets tuffy. the young people say we have the solution, the future. 77 percent. now every weekend on the w it's the worst violence between israelis and palestinians in years, a deadly swear up between the israeli army and the palestinian militant group, hamas that is also taking a toll and mixed era jewish cities within israel. after violent clashes at the alex and mosque in jerusalem, the rocket fire from guys began with come out targeting, tell these and what it claims were military base is in southern and central israel . israel's military hit back with air strikes on hamas command centers as well as gases, transport, and medical systems. more than $220.00 palestinians,

including children are dead tens of thousands this place. and at least 12 israelis have lost their lives. middle east crisis was can stuff the cycle of violence. the news. welcome to to the point. it's a pleasure to introduce our guests. daniel dylan berman works for the german daily devote. and he says, the youth failure as a credible peacemaker means that the best chance of mediation now lies in israel's growing diplomatic ties with some arab states. and great to have with us, i from baker, he is a palestinian american and middle east expert. and he says it's only by entering the israeli occupation that adjust and equitable solution can be achieved. and i'm very glad to introduce my dw shawnee was on us who reports for us on the middle

east and israel. she says the political weakness on both sides leadership has brought us to this unnecessary round, and it's only political change that can bring a long term solution. so welcome to all of you, and let me start by getting your sense of how grave the situation is. at the moment, shanna you've been reporting for a long time on and from the region. the current violence came after an extended period of com didn't come as a surprise to you and how would you see it compares with past conflicts between israel, israel and palestinians. well, if you ask these really military, they were completely surprised if you hear, you know, we were hearing their assessments at the beginning of the riots and in jerusalem. they were not expecting hallmarks to act right now. just let me know. so fuse fully and for such a long time. and so in a way, within israeli community of intelligence, that was quite

a big surprise if you've asked people on the ground, you could have seen this bubbling for a while. this whole started would shift her all, you know, we've seen the palestinians there that are adamant in east jerusalem. exactly. in the past, the pelting is leaving there. they're officially, they're kind of in between, they're not really officially israeli citizens, but they are not really also officially citizens of the palestinian authority and they have been feeling what also many other arab israeli is living within israeli territories. feeling that they're being, you know, they have the injustice when it comes to policy about housing and rights concerning land. it's just becoming too hard to bear. and so this has been bubbling and simmering very slowly and that was also the month of ramadan, which always makes everything hypersensitive. so in a way there were many signs. it was a chance, you know, whether people have bred them or not. i think it is a lot about where you stand politically as well a crumb. what are you hearing from family in the region?

what are they telling you about the situation on the ground? well, on one side, it's absolutely horrible. i had a friend who was killed and go the last week. and his 8 year old son, my sister's car, got a bullet through the back of it. and she lives in jerusalem and is absolutely terrible what has happened. and you said something a point of relative calm the problem. it wasn't relative calm for the palestinians . is israel continued to build the settlements and continued to oppress the palestinians and create facts on the grounds. all of this time it seems the world only wakes up when there's, when there is blood in the streets, which is one of the main problems. so but what is what is great is that they also said israel succeeded and uniting the palestinian people all over the world. that's something nobody has succeeded since you got the earth out in the seventy's . we'll talk about the extent of that in

a moment. but let me go to you and ask you, we keep hearing that a cease fire is around the corner that the european peacemakers that you mentioned in your opening statement are upping the pressure on both sides. how long do you think this violence will continue and do you think there's a possibility it could set off a wider constant ration in the region as a whole and doesn't seem to me at the moment. that's why the conflagration is eminent. it's actually rather sensible to assume that the fines but to cease fires and now are actually true because we know that both sides in this conflict know that they can truly makes central gains with military means. both had internal reasons to act the way they did to start with some off. they wanted to show their strength and send a signal off of resolution and a palestinian power crisis,

which came after the posting and president postponed the elections again. and of course, benjamin's tongue y'all is fighting for his office also has reasons to show himself a strong man, but both know that they can't change the situation substantially. so it's likely that we will see the violence and, and it's as likely that we will see the problem at the core of the smile and persist. anybody disagree with that before i go on? no, i mean, i think the most things he is right. but my one thing is that the violence is unfortunately, this is just the latest outbreak of violence. but he's, i actually agree with daniel, is that the core reason that we have this violence is, will persist until we change that you are right on that. so i don't want to be careful in trying to have that this was a deliberate act of nathan. yeah,

we're trying to get things out of hand. i think that would be too cynical of the claim. i think it might have been maybe been in destruction. he was distracted due to the political place where he's at and i think he may have realized once the this is happening, then he cannot stop it. that he might be able to leverage it. but i'd be very careful with hinting that he deliberately plan that you're already drinking. and i just can i just stop us for one moment cuz i do want to take a closer look at the causes that i'd like to bring in a short film that we had. and i'd like to get shawnee, 1st of all, if you would. and it's a very tough question to give us a brief summary of what you see as the complex chain of immediate events that lead to this current outbreak. so we've seen for the wind to keep in mind, we will, we will, we're talking a lot about leadership and but what's happening on the ground is what we see online social media and tick tock. for example. you know, there was and that was quite

a big thing. there was in our youth in jerusalem that was slapping north docs, men on the, on the train and that became super viral and picked up. and then in response, some youth in israel decided they need to, to, to respond to that. and so things have kind of gotten out of hand because what we seeing on the level of the ground both independence within the past unions. and these really is a lot of the, it's a lot of use going out me or being very much moved to emotion and to action on some of these key issues like jerusalem, which is a very emotional, a key topic. so that has been happening and then in a way the leadership is sort of kind of road that way or had to, if it comes to hamas or in israel, had to respond to that. and then the, i think the most detrimental act was when police forces stormed, they'll lock the mask during ramadan on the 10th of may. and that, that ended up, you know, with my feeling they need to respond. being the protectors of jerusalem,

firing rockets at israel after setting an ultimate, that they knew would not be accepted. and that was the beginning of a downward spiral that just quickly got out of hand. so let's drill a little deeper and start with jerusalem, which of course has long been a powder keg. the city is wholly to both muslims and jews, access to religious sites, and unresolved disputes over territory. have spar conflicts that go back decades. recent tensions over in israeli settlement in east jerusalem. she mentioned that earlier, she extra help set off the current conflagration. the image shake, gerad neighborhood in east jerusalem. mona cord and 3 other palestinian families are faced with being expelled from their homes. but had this land belongs to us, and we lived here legally, and everything is documented legally and pushy pushing they come here and occupy

the place, and they want to occupy what remains of the neighborhood with them. you still don't have a jewish settlers claim. they're entitled to parts of this neighbourhood and have taken the disputes to court. if you don't, the jews for almost a 100 years. jude lives and jews own the land fins in nothing changed beside one thing that's suddenly decided the owner of the land of the property now housed indians are faced with yet another threat of expulsion. the israel settlements the source of the ongoing conflict a crumb since israel was founded in 1948 wars and israeli settlement construction

have displaced 5000000 palestinians according to un estimates. the un commission for human rights has called forced removal of palestinian families. a potential war crime is really officials say it is a real estate dispute between private parties. how do you see it? well, there's rarely for holding for real estate dispute. of course, it's not a real estate dispute is rarely settlements are a byproduct of the israeli occupation, the longest military occupation this in history 54 years and were going on and on and on. and that is the problem that we have to solve. and we in the worst, are enabling that, and we have enabled that, and that's what has to change shaney as a young law student in the eighty's, i wrote my 1st law review note on the status that you're already then both sides

claiming it. of course, as they are a capital israel declaring it would an exit. are we any closer to seeing this dispute result and we were back then? i'm afraid not. i'm sure your paper is still intact and still valid until you know today as well. this is not going to resolve before there is we'll negotiation the make it to the core issues that divide palestinians and israelis. and this is nothing that we're seeing coming anytime soon in the current configuration of political forces. i mean, not only in israel where, where we've seen the deepest, hardest political crisis, the last 2 years is for election campaign. but also within the palestinian side, we keep talking about posting and then we to remember there's a division. there's a very big, deep rift between what happens in gaza lead by hamas. and what we're seeing as the official internationally recognized government of the palestinians in the west bank . and as long as there is not inner palestinian dialogue and some in a israeli solutions to their political problems, we're never gonna move forward with solving the problems we will between the sides

in, in getting the jim see for real negotiation that really deals with a court issues, daniel, the president trump took the step of moving the u. s. embassy from television to jerusalem. a clear gesture of support to netanyahu. would you say that change the situation on the ground? and you know, i asked johnny at the very beginning whether the violence came as a surprise. the fact is, there was no uprising at that time. some people found that surprising. well, it might seem surprising. now, when we see what causes the violence at the moment at the causes of the current violence are far more from maryland this step. so united states which seem to mentors at that time. if we look back at that, i would say it definitely helped alienating the palestinians further from the

united states government at that time. and it might make it harder for the biden administration to reproach the palestinians. on the other hand, on the other hand, we don't see a biden administration that is too eager to approach the problem at all seems that they are, are, they're actually hoping to get rid of this problem as quickly as possible. so i think in the end a didn't make make much of a sense, but it's clear that part of the problem at hand here lies and washing that is not willing to act. and i want to come back to the role of outside mediators in just a moment. but we heard from our crime a moment ago that the current violence has united palestinians. as we know, there have been deep, deep divisions between mass and fatah. would you say that's true that there is a much more united palestinian a sense right now than before?

far from it far from. and i disagree with a crime and disrespect very strongly. what we see now are shows off unity. but these shows actually just try to hide away a division that becomes ever deeper and that has become deeper for internal reasons . the division has become deeper mainly because the current elector palestinian leadership and the palestinian national authority, which has been elected 15 years ago and hadn't have a didn't have a reelection since then. again, pull re post toned the elections in the palestinian territory. they are respond to please, you know, daniel, unfortunately that shows your lack of understanding of the palestinian people. the divisions have been externally and artificially implemented on the policy people due to all of the horrible circumstances that they have lived under. the truth is

that palestinians themselves, they were, they have been divided between palestinians and israel, westbank jerusalem gover. refugees and all the time. and now you see the true color is that they are one. the fact is that the palestinian authority is an illegitimate, corrupt thing. you keep saying the legitimate representatives, they are not, neither is high enough. actually the, the policy authority was supposed there is only one legitimate representative, which i see. and that's the only way forward and that as a reform and reconstituted p hello. hello. the philistines are only able to show unity or make believe they are united when they are being attacked. they are not unified enough to act independently towards a solution of the problem when it comes to that they're deeply divide within that. at the core of the problem, you're put caps in

a cage and you keep reducing the amount of food that they have. they're going to fight when someone comes in and attacks them, all of a sudden they were able to defend themselves, but the other are not only helpless victims, they can decide upon their destiny. so i don't even bring in johnny here. she's been trying to get things we need to keep in mind. first of all, even within us, we have great division. we have how much is leadership is not sitting in gaza. they are not the one getting you know, to live under what is considered by many as the world's biggest open open air prison. you know, it's working, you're locked down exactly. it's hard conditions and leadership is not there for all sorts of maybe legitimate reasons. but that is the fact and we, what we've seeing is the corruption. we've seen what's happening on those levels in hamas. and in fact, you have those level eating and then you have those on the ground and the, the grid despair in conditions that, that between those 2 groups, it is an imaginable. and i think this is what i'm trying to say. it's maybe the voice of the people such that they're fed up with with leadership and they're so,

and you see the mistress in leadership, you know, an equivalency. but i also want to come back to the question of the jerusalem and the see what we've seen a doing is mostly sending a signal that it weakens the, the west, west bank pillow of leadership. so basically, instead of giving any rope or any suggestions of support to the more moderate side of the palestinians, it's been a slap in their face. and what we're seeing as a result of that, that the extreme voices, those who do bother to defend jerusalem as if he sees himself now a month, are gaining leverage and actually winning because today was left with no one to defend it. once, once the palestinian leadership in the west bank had become so weakened, partially also due to american, actually let me make a brief cut there if i may, because our clock has not a lot of time left on it. and i would also like to talk about the other side

because your opening statement talked about weak leadership on both sides. and i'm hearing from all of you a concession that there is some weak leadership on the palestinian side. so let's talk about the israeli one. as you mentioned, the government was struggling already to preserve its power when this crisis broke . your opening statement talked about weak leadership there as well. how does that play a role here? well, you know, 1st of all, let's again talk about the level of the people. there's a lot of mistrust. you see it online, you see it amongst people. they don't know within is within, within israelis even those were not necessarily too far to the left is really not done. they remember we've been in these rounds of escalation time and again, and we're talking now about ceasefire. and nobody is even discussing what the conditions are, because there are no real demands. you know, this was sort of a charade. this was a show of both sides, both, you know, leadership and both side who had a lot to gain by showing dominance,

by playing the card of the parents and so on. but the people there understand that the game at the bottom line is for, is for them personally, is very small. and that when i was been struggling in the last 2 years to hold to power. and he was an imminent threat for his leadership right before this broke out . i mean, for the 1st time we saw a real chance of another government, not only just different government with definite teneo, but a government who would also breach you know, into, over the aisle to the arab israeli community in bring it in, which is a fundamental change and also a threat in a way to those on the right to do not want to see this alliance, who do not want to see this coming together. they benefit from what we seeing now, these crashes that just just make the risk deeper, you know, and put the market with divide israel as a very complex mix society instead of what unites that society. and within these conditions, that operation is definitely making everything far more complicated,

intense, and another thing that makes the situation quite a bit more complicated. the prime minister netanyahu is now facing an unprecedented problem within israel, namely clashes between jewish and arab residence in israel. in the past week, cities all over the country has been in gulf, in unrest with reports of attacks on era, ph. and i'm synagogue, is really politicians have voice concerns, but the situation could in fact fry roll into the civil war. daniel, should that actually add impetus to israel's willingness to agree to a ceasefire? and how would you describe the 2 sides objectives? what goals would have to be met for them to both climbed down? well, to your 1st question. how that influences the politics as well? i think that depends on the political perspective you take

because part of the as really political landscape, conservative part, the right wing part has actually at least taken steps and the last years that's a we're sure to give to deepen the divide between jewish israelis and arab is released namely the statehood law, which the nothing else government put in place. not too long ago, took the status of official language from arabic. and that helped even back than to deepen the divide between jewish and rebels release. so it seems that part of the political belief in israel actually uses this polarization, least for the electoral tactics. notwithstanding the fact that the very same canvas trying to form coalitions with our parties at the moment. but of course, finding a solution for israelis and palestinians would help to mitigate these tensions

because obviously they're also connected to shared sufferings between arab is release and their palestinian brethren. can i just i disagree. i really find the problem of calling the arab israeli. this is a term that the state of israel because of these are palestinian sort of and they are 2nd class citizens of that. because by can they all call in the most in a different way. some of them they like to call themselves palestinians after very a lot, and i don't think you think closer to them than you are daniel. but the point is that they are 2nd class citizens have always been that that has been the core of the problem. and when do you see that this is why i'm saying is that this is not a group of 100000000 arabs. we're talking about, we're talking about alice finance, who live in the land between the mediterranean fee and the jordan river akram. i'm going to stop you there. we have literally just minutes left on the clock. but i do

want to talk about one central element, namely to state solution solution, an independent palestinian state within the student state model remains the formal vision for a negotiated compromise. and you yourself say there has to be adjusted equitable solution to stop the violence sung. commentators have called the current violence the death of the 2 state solution very quickly. would you agree that it is no longer feasible? i believe that the 2 state solution was killed off by israel 15 years ago. and i've been thankful publicly ever since. the one thing that the one solution is to have one state which is for all of its citizens, regardless of race or religion, where you have duties and responsibilities. that's what i believe in. and i believe that's the only way showing the react to that please. yeah, i didn't really go for it after after we've seen the class is also within israeli, within israeli mic, city of arabs and jews living together. we've seen them going in flames. i see,

i think the, the, any solution that brings them altogether into one state that's not going to happen . it's not feasible out there. well, actually i want to bring it a little bit of taking on this. we're not going to solve the problem for sure. in the last minute in our show, but daniel, who amongst the outside mediators really would have any chance to push us towards some form ocean. so you say not europe. what about the u. s. and those arab states, you mentioned in your opening statement, it will never work without the us. but i think a chance for reuniting palestinians and give them an incentive for making an agreement with israel lies really with the new arab allies, israel as has been finding an arab world and is still searching. what would you want to see the u. s. do within his own party, joe biden, facing a lot of criticism. the united states will have to find for

a way to exert pressure on israel to give israel and incentive for a new solution without elevating their power bases in the united states with which is partially jewish. but we have to give it my name is come on and the countries the moderate outcome because he's, they're not going to come together on this. come up not integrated into leadership that are so right. thanks for being with us. thank to all of you for the me the news. the news

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excuse me. this is data, but he lives from the israel grade to a cease fire after days of devastating strikes and rockers, barrages, palestinians celebrate on the face of gaza. the unconditional deal goes in for all