an expedition to dislike the secret language of wales. the exciting part of the underwater listening. if you're getting a window into their, their life that you would never, you never see a company research team to the pacific to the language of wales june 4th on d. w. one in 6 couples in germany find they're unable to have children. it was the worst thing i could have imagined. i thought that i might never have a child. i think we should judge people options such as target c o using donor eggs are illegal in germany. so when all else fails,

many couples seek help abroad. it's a huge had to everything has been criminalized in germany. but elsewhere, it's become a multi 1000000000 dollar industry as nice as the, the people who do these things aren't criminal. these are just procedures that help people fulfill the dream of having children when we and kingdoms, if, when that many of the, sorry, goods and jonas are acting as a financial need. me, person i meant about, i mean, i mean $900.00 euro that's nearly twice but a n and a month. gotcha. we honor the donation and sorry to see our lucrative business tenure rep. but at what cost? the friends just get fab. i always wanted children, but it just never works. like so many she exhausted all legal options. the

reproductive medicine in germany. the whole 9 treatments caused her to blackouts and injure herself. but even that didn't deter her. this is a washed elem from. i'm leaving the thought of not having children was so horrific to me that no matter what back i suffered, i'd pick myself up hop, reactivate my hope, and try the next thing. and so gradually we widen the limits that we were prepared to go to and said we'd try again. with a donated egg, she could have probably got pregnant in germany. it's illegal. she could have got the treatment abroad and faced no legal consequences, but her conscience wouldn't let her do it. about the need. every one who doesn't get pregnant in the normal way, so to speak. suddenly faces ethical question most and in the end you have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and live with your decision. that's me on the speaker in the sean con, much is possible medically,

but remains ethically controversial. egg donation is legal. in many western countries and a handful of countries and l. surrogacy 2 in germany, only the standard fertility treatments are allowed heavy but can finish heads up of fertility treatment center. one of more than $130.00 in germany. it's been more than 40 years since the birth of the 1st test tube baby, as the procedure was initially dubbed medicine has come a long way since then. in vitro fertilization is now standard $110000.00 ivy f cycles that performed in germany alone. each year, germany also allows the nation and passed additional legislation in 2018, but ad donation is not allowed. that involves taking the egg of another woman during ivy f treatment. the embryo is then transferred to the prospective mother.

surrogacy is also banned here. another woman is artificially inseminated and carries the baby to turn on behalf of the parents. the embryo stems from the sperm and egg of the prospective parents, ordones. 2 years ago, germany strength and it's a donation laws. the legal constraints placed on these procedures have been hotly contested for years. germany's national academy of sciences has long criticized the restrictions which are based on law dating back to 1991. there's most of them enough for all desire to speak, and i say i have a 38 year old female patient who is no longer producing eggs. there's a medical side to the case and a psychological and emotional one. so i have to tell her that even with only began, she probably won't get pregnant using a donor egg would be an option for her. but i can't advise her on that. otherwise the state prosecutor will come knocking off i live on does, is felicia. he says, every year, thousands of women seek help abroad for

a handful of countries. it's become a lucrative industry. the vice president is all in the worst cases of the all inclusive packages. and it's like we're going on a nice holiday and we'll get pregnant in the process, or maybe not, gets mixed with commercial interest chromosome and personal trade fans have even sprung up in germany like this one in cologne. last year, before the pandemic town. due to a legal loophole, clinics from abroad can advertise fertility services here. the to actually illegal in germany were not allowed to film during the opening hours in order to protect the privacy of members of the public attending the fat. there are also clinics here advertising surrogacy, the number one choice for those that can afford it. of the american clinics. lab prices for surrogacy start at 830000 euros. those with

a smaller budget can opt for a ukrainian clinic where the baby package costs 64000 heroes, some even guarantee a baby. one clinic made headlines last year went around a 100 newborns were stranded in kiev because lockdown measures prevented parents from connecting them. the images that were published by the clinic to increase pressure on the government were beamed around the world. shortly afterwards, parents from abroad were able to collect the infants. the case triggered an international debate on the ethics of, sorry to see the practices legal in some european countries to including the u. k, austria and denmark. but only if it's al terrific and not driven by money, greece goes a step further and announce clinics to offer surrogacy to international clients. so nina and her husband decided to seek help in greece. we've changed her name. she

wishes to remain anonymous because of the social stigma involved. she says even her friends have criticized obviously you can't question the morality of it. so i'm saying it's abusing another woman's body. but for me, the thought that i might never have a child was the worst thing i could have imagined. i think we shouldn't judge people many struggle with the decision to use the sarah good because of ethical questions and the cost involved the us or canada would have been our 1st choice. they felt like the safest options, but we just couldn't afford it. then there was ukraine, which would have been the cheapest, but we didn't have a good feeling about it. so greece was the middle path. it was affordable and we felt that it was legally well regulated, and the surrogates were well cared for. laner and her husband were

actually half way through the procedure when lameness suddenly got pregnant. naturally back to the trade fair. i've arranged to meet with a doctor from a clinic in greece. he's helped a number of german couples, have a baby through summer gassy. so what motivates the salary? got mother to go through a pregnancy for a couple. she's never met my dad, he's a movie. you shouldn't underestimate people's desire to help others as a doctor working in this area as a way, i always tried to understand why a woman would decide to do the dentist. and over the years, i've noticed that the desire to help other couples is a very powerful motivation. and in my positive friends and say ok, i bet assistance ok. but another incentive for the salary good is the financial compensation that they get isn't if it is looking, to be honest, i would disagree mine if my experience has shown that money doesn't play a major role in these cases these, i guess he kind of goes on this page,

and i would have, i'd okay, that you talked about compensation 10000 euro. that's legally fixed for real money in greece. nissan. i left town. i don't think that all women would undergo this procedure. it's not about the money. okay. okay, but isn't it the case that a business model has developed figure because there's money involved you know, as a doctor who's been involved in reproductive medicine for more than 20 years, i can assure you that it is not a form of business feelings homeless and again, that takes me some lights, a form of medical care and, and helping him that makes people happy as the and then below take literally. but is it really just about making others happy? i decide to head to greece to find out for myself every year, some 200 babies are born in greece, to surrogates. the law permits the practice as long as it's actually stick. back

during the national economic crisis started in 2009 greece began promoting medical tourism to generate income. in 2013 athens opened surrogacy to international patients. since then, childless couples have come from all over the world. but there appears to be no independent checks into the welfare of the salary, gets my contact from the ground. can't even put me in touch with any experts in this area, but i can speak to someone who wants to be a sorry good. she asked not to be filmed. i couldn't because told her she can sign up for sarah. good. see once i youngest child is a little older, she's a single parent with 3 children, but emphasizes repeatedly that her motivation is merely to help. she dismisses all talk of possible health risks. oh my god sees us. and when you're doing something good, maybe the next day, those good things will return to you. she has no job. the family of 4 lives from

child benefits, 280 years a month and all surrogates are allowed to receive 10000 euros in compensation. but she tells us the thumbs involved much higher. she's been told 30 thousands and that's a good start in life. 30000 euros. $30000.00 euros would be a loss of money. a powerful incentive. i joined forces with another journalist in flight, the green tide and discreet, where we're going to poses a couple in the mid to late forty's, who are desperate to have children. greece offers parents that use surrogacy an advantage. a court process guarantees them the parental rights. before the pregnancy begins. we inquire to fertility clinic and get an appointment right away. but obviously we can't take a camera and adult 2 inches assistant told us that couples from all over the world

managed to have babies here, evidently for loss of money. the cost for us would be between 788-5000 euros of which 222-5000 would go to the salary good. and he says we shouldn't try to develop any emotional bond with the sarah good. and she was mainly doing it for the money because it was incredible. he said right away, she was doing it for the money. and yeah, she gets up to a 1000 euros a month, which she allowed to get done. but then another 121-5000 euros when the baby is delivered. otherwise. yeah, both the doctor and the assistant said, sarah good gets another 10 to 15000 years at 1st. i mean, it doesn't sound battle touristic this book, this, this mission. i repose our experiences to someone from the body responsible for drawing up greek floor in this area. catch us enough to ducky is vice president of the national authority of assisted reproduction. i tell her that we've heard from

multiple sources that, sorry, good. the motivated by the money and may receive 20 or even 30000 euros. there's a scholarly middle because the top amount of money he could receive is $10000.00. okay. $20000.00 is plus thousands of payments and the payment would be against morality would be against human dignity that could not be allowed to be on availability of the human body. i tell her that is perspective parents we were supposed to pay up to $85000.00 heroes. 85. yes. 80. 858-5000. yes. i mean, i learn things from you. this is not possible. this is, this is an extra extraordinary amount. i've never heard so

i'm. 7 shocked when i'm very sorry. they read foreigners like that because we didn't mean that when we work with open the grid clinics for we go back to tourism . we didn't mean that we should, they should explode. people ketter's infant ducky promises to have the case followed up some clinics, have plenty turn surrogacy and to a business. but what about the practice as a nation that's much cheaper than surrogacy? every year, several 1000 couples from germany go abroad to use donor eggs. the number one destination in europe. so this service is spain here too. it's supposed to be actually dick can ex, across the country, use thousands of dona eggs in fertility treatments every year and the trend is increasing. but what does that involve for the donors and who profits?

i visit to fertility clinics. it's very popular on german forums. a doctor from australia is responsible for german speaking patients. yes, i have 3 initial contact meetings a day on the face of those around 80 percent up to receive the donor eggs on. so over the entire year, it adds up under spanish, the have to remain anonymous. so i can't meet any of the women who come here. a member of staff explains the medical procedure. when it says this is the operating room where both the patients and the donors have the treatment. and then the donor is injected with hormones, said that she produces multiple eggs instead of just one. these are then harvested in an operation. they are relatively safe, it's not completely risk free. and in cases that can be serious complications, resulting an injury to organs, or subsequent infertility. the groups, the clinic is part of the claims to have one of the largest banks in the world.

they began storing zona eggs and patient embryos. 30 years ago, i ask how many they have. of course, she said the lots of people. i can't tell you exactly how many we have right now. but we can store more than 60000 embryos at any one time and we can keep them for many years. yeah. so where do the eggs come from? yeah, called doubling us says egg donation is a part of the culture in spain. here come by the shore when i arrived here, that was one of the 1st things that surprised me. there really is this idea of altruism egg donation. in the same way, people in germany, austria donate blood. the financial aspect is there to, of course, the donor receives between 100-1500 euros. depending on how many eggs we get. so it's not that much. and, but if

a student from the university of valencia does it to treat herself to a weekend in a pizza, i personally don't have any problem with that. and i'm still a 1000 euros. is a lot of money for many people. and presumably, as rarely used to finance a short break, the average young woman in spain lives on a lot less than 1000 years a month. in fact, nearly 40 percent of young people are unemployed. surely many women feel compelled to give eggs for the money. naturally, the clinics won't pass on the details of any donors, and it's not a subject that women in spain talk about openly. but eventually, i managed to find someone prepared to talk publicly for the 1st time and on camera about her experience of donating eggs. 5 years ago, 30 year old alia, was the student and didn't have enough to live on. like so many her age, she couldn't find a decent job. she donated egg 6 times in all earning 900 heroes each time

you want to call me back. then i had a job with very few hours. so my only secure income was 200 euros among us. from that i needed to pay both my rent and my fee i gave. we are the 1st time i donated everything, i can remember getting paid. and the 1st thing i did when i got home was to pay my rent for the next 3 months of yours, elia knew what to say to be accepted as a don't at it. oh my god, me don't let me. they went to the man, then looked at me and asked, so what's your motivation for doing this? my and i said, oh, my motivation is altruistic. so i just want to help people answer. and that was in just a moment. and i honestly thought of either him a very good actress or a sociopath or i didn't know what he's or he's a very bad psychologist. i mean, just look at me and all the people who go, they lie to him and he just accepted me and then i'm gonna hang out for years now.

egg donation in spain has been on the rise. one of the few critical voices is scientist consuela. as plaza, she studied the practice, both in spain and internationally. i believe the reason for the increase here is purely financial. she says the clinics have become very skilled in advertising. yes . you should already see that. on the one hand, the clinic director advertising at women who need financial help, who lack money on the other day highlight the altruistic side. the idea that those who respond are helping others. they also offer a comprehensive gynecological checkup so that in the end they can say the donation wasn't purely for financial reasons. even though those reasons are obviously there . without that, no one would undergo hormone treatment and take the risk that is clearly environment for race and work. on the one hand,

there are women in financial needs on the other couples, desperately wanting children. so looks at night for couples visiting the clinics. once again, we poses a couple wanting children and immediately get appointments into clinics. once again, we are unable to film those clinics. assure us that with this method will be able to have children, the health risks, but the donors and for me as the mother of play down, we're also encouraged to have a dna test done to rule out any hereditary illnesses. one of the clinics is even running a special offer yet, and was that she says how much it's supposed to cost and then crossed it. hourly. but we'll offer you yeah. hilarious. a special deal for you. it's 7 and a half 1000. but only if you do it this month, then the dna test is free. that come one day later and it will be $3000.00 euros my . what would german doctors say about the price of

louis hill and is positive to working groups on reproductive medicine and linked to the german medical association. he says the price isn't that high, but he feels special offers and unnecessary extras, like the dna test suggest the money making outfit. that his view is kind of the either medicine is not just a product that you sell the label. of course we live from our income and it's not unusual to have bad practices here and there for the ones. but the focus for me is always the patient and, and not my wallet on the didn't. but that's not the impression i get from what you're saying. the other aspect is the risks to the donor. unto myself were play down. the one was all clear when this was class time, it needs to be an informed decision. it's both sides need to be clear about it. it's a low risk procedure, but not risk free control. and that needs to be clear in the, in the design. and the donor is not even having the eggs harvested to fulfill her

own dream of a family. but for others that gives you more of the stone. so there's a certain moral obligation to think about the welfare of the woman who donated her eggs and spend the time physical risks other one aspect. but what about the emotional side do? don't is experience long term after effect. near there is another form i don't know, willing to go public 10 years ago. she donated eggs repeatedly and now feels cheated by the clinic. she says no one explain to her the risks involved. she tells me her body reacted so badly to all the hormones that her life was in danger. with the progress in medicine since then, that wouldn't happen today, but she'll never donate again. in value to your network a. i honestly donated because i thought it couldn't be a bad thing, but i thought i was doing something good for another woman. yeah. someone who

couldn't get pregnant would receive anatomy. how ya for the interview. and i would benefit financially and i needed the money back that and then, but afterwards i thought about it and a lot more and i didn't see it that way anymore. so you know, may not be 10 years old. noosa is still struggling. she tries hard to suppress of her biological children or not. but other than me, i guess the part of me tries to believe that nothing happened out. i just can't imagine it normally my hand. i prefer to think that my work and weren't fertilized. i mean more than the yes, but now when i start to talk about all these bad feelings, come on my mind and just not ready for it. but if it's easier to think that nothing hung up that my eggs didn't develop fully and there were no children out there with

my dna. can you hear me call me him? it's part of your own identity is clearly more than a quick operation. spanish sociologists, enough went fullness, has studied the practice of egg donation in europe. she is critical of the spanish system saying, well, sharp las couples benefit of the clinic so well to the loses the donors. these in between situation is just not really working for the women that actually carrying their reproductive capacity. because neither they're part of altruism very clear because they're, they're forbidden to have any relation with the family. and at the same time, they are not paid what it costs and they are not having to write. so it's a very high pocket situation that she believes society needs to decide either a donation is true is stick or page properly. if as a society,

either jeremy societies, spanish society, or the european society, we decide that we don't mind commercialize in reproductive capacity. then we need to find proper framework in which to do that with the right of the people who are actually willing to contribute with their ex are with their reproductive capacity and to have a good income to do that. so she's calling for a clear decision on whether it's an act of kindness or a but opinions differ based on egg donation and surrogacy. the debate in germany has been going on for years. the national academy of sciences, which carry that content issue is a part of once egg donation to be legalized. not falling on donations have been carried out for more than 30 years now. these days,

the band is hard to justify legally ethically, or medically. i regret that it can't be carried out in germany, in an orderly way. it could be well regulated, so that couples are advised properly the don't is their advice properly. and that only a limited amount of money is given to the don't spend. but others disagree. political scientist catherine, belongs to a network of scientists, that activity opposes any legalization of ag donation or sour gassy. she says the altruism argument is unrealistic and there aren't enough women who would donate voluntarily with does i'm 5 was i'm that means is certain level of compensation will be needed done, but then we still won't have enough. so the compensation will be increased. and before you know, you have a line of business where women are risking their health before the benefits of others. i gain some egg donation. and so i guess the unethical or perfectly

acceptable is legalization law. neva gene was the government's doing to clarify these questions. the german justice ministry refers me to the health ministry, which in turn points to a memorandum written by the german medical association. it says, there are complex legal, ethical, and societal aspects to consider. the current governing coalition agreement foresees neither the drafting of a new law on reproductive medicine, nor any modification to the existing embryo protection act. so the government doesn't have the issue on its agenda, and neither is it triggering any new debate on those complex legal, ethical, and societal aspects. those affected will have to wait, francisca fab, i never had a child. instead, she's devoted her life to advising. other couples wanting children, and calling for germany to finally make a decision on the donation. and sorry, gassy. she says the silence surrounding these issues and the ignorance of many

politicians is a disaster with harness and cheer, monica were too afraid to broach the subject. we get rounded by saying it's banned in germany, please go abroad and we abandon tens of thousands to a situation where there's no proper legal framework support and no advice on it because that's not love. we just abandon people and then wonder why there's a problem. also, both from sorry, kasey and egg donation, medical experts in the you took a lot about altruism, but often the sour goodson don't, is just have financial needs, potential problems, both physical and emotional frequently go unmentioned. meanwhile, those wanting children face a dilemma with no where to turn to objective advice. clarity is needed and rules that are fair for all the

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