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tv   Gesprach  Deutsche Welle  May 30, 2021 2:30pm-3:01pm CEST

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it wasn't a white fog, it was a yellow green frog that covered everything. when we had to put on our gas mask, when done most customers, me to this day crystal, she has no idea which gases she was exposed to. she has difficulty walking. the result of a nerve disease she's had and she was young concord had, i'm guess i'm, i was 15 when i 1st began getting else and then it started after the end of the war after they finished loading the gas bought the gas and they would be telling us i was almost paralyzed and initially a doctor thought it might be polio on crutches. lp's and a d. d ac knows a good state how to conduct. kimberly moves and it was and emitted always went away again on kit. and then 20 years ago i was, i know, with neuropathy, little,
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but no one can say what caused when you wrote to see the crystal. she also found out the talk since can be a trigger. when she showed us the social album of pictures from her childhood, she became sad to whole family, died of cancer. she blamed the chemical weapons and the politicians who ignored the existence of these war time, poisons for 75 years. i don't understand it. i just can't understand what the politicians are thinking. my luggage, when you have it, i know i'm only good, but i've been through it all but these days i get the feeling that they know about it, but they don't want to know. they don't want to spend money on it and the costs are horrendous. and for them, money is more important than people. yeah. better. as mentioned
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me, the cost on obstacle, germany's most toxic whole getting a pond in no effects any could easily become the world's most costly one. the clean up comes with an estimated $15000000.00 euro price tag. in early 2020 work began on 3 exploratory shops. the 1st chemical shells turned up just to meet her below the surface. stefan vishal is part of the team recovering the deadly weapons. in this job, he's aware anything can happen, putting something up and there are things where you can't gauge the risk you in the uncovering munitions, that leak and so forth. yeah, that's when it was the my biggest concern is coming across and exposed chemical warfare agent down in the hall. and that would mean getting out carefully evaluating the situation and taking further measures. steph ambition has been
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confronted with such situations down in the chart. he was his own life on the job to save others when you call them. munitions are a problem that especially when they're somewhere buried in the earth, disintegrating and hazardous gases are leaking into the water local. eventually that affects the whole population on the tyler, heavy metals that get into the water like arsenic, for example, steep into the food chain and then into people. and that's why we have to do that with and she for minutes is the maximum time stuff on there. she can stay in the chart with he has met suit and mom. he goes down alone next to him, and beneath him a hundreds of poison gas shells to which was today who recover 400 kilograms toxic deadly munitions from the whole it was in the midst of the because i get, i have
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a mix of feelings. it's strange because, you know, i can't really express what it feels like, but it's certainly not good of even punish when you have to stay sharp, whether you're excavating things or moving them. being closely watched, con boy has been moving around the lunatic heath the month once today's poisonous hall is loaded onto a special truck and taken to the gay cotton moonstone. the company is the only one in the country now to dispose of chemical weapons. any chemical weapons or fan agent found on gym and soil is brought here. that will not, on average, we have $1.00 to $200.00 shells being brought here for most of them come from the region north of the monster. but for example, 2 years ago we had some from button button spartanburg, back up on the bay,
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were doing some building and brought us chemical shells that still contained the nerve agent, taboo and heinous. and other than the f comes off, the blue and i just a drop of carbon is enough to kill a person. philip hirschler is responsible for destroying the gas. before he said to work, he meticulously checks his gear. then he'll even. but if there's any dirt or contamination in this area, or if any of these plastic parts are damaged, it could allow toxic agents or poisonous gases to get involved. and that's why it's really important that everything fits here, that everything is clean and that the membrane is uncompromised. and it's always a human on at all. no. her she was present november 2019 when the 1st shell from dent in upon was soon opened and emergency medic was also on stand by the 15th yon. we get dressed here and then we get into our potent b and
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a driven over done again behind and talk about. next we enter the front chamber where we pick up the shells, which we take to be cart also and open. and then you get all that done. when we take the shell out of the barrel, i fasten it at the right height. don't we leave the room on it because then it's the turn of the machine operator. so, so rope and michelle vandy got out of the thesis because it's open, he'll give us the okay, and we go in and monitor the rooms, the concentrations of warfare agents. this done this and if everything is okay, we look to see what the contents are by the state is missing out of opening when we determined that we take a lab sample and then the agent is put into a barrel that can be secured and destroy safely from the car. when the shell from deadline, the pond was phone open. the chemical warfare agent inside was found to be full gene test problem is just kosky and the problem
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is the damages, the lungs, which means bodily fluids can get in the lungs, fill up the 1st and effectively drowns on their own bodily fluids. i mentioned kweisi on your car, processed at linking chemical munitions, recovered from dating upon the stored at the key car. if they really are $20000.00 shells to be recovered, it'll take to destroy them. all the gay car is already working to capacity the head of the car is kruger, says politicians could be doing more close it out. of course, that cost taxpayers money under the hill. in the end you have safer environment, but that's not immediately results. so maybe that's why it's an unloved child, but there is no other option. we should be doing something was talking to not least because so few people are aware of the many places in germany, contamination by war, time, chemical weapons, berlin, hostile horse district,
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for example. the document that's only by the end of the 2nd world war, the trail of records on substances found. he gets law in my during that month to it's time you have the allied takeover without any documentation owner document as soon as because some things here were also top secret one. so they were never supposed to be documented. all the records are still sealed, and she can go ahead and the 2 for the money went off. listen for decades, berlin authorities turned a blind tie. i'm willing to stir up trouble on the river hassle. but things changed in 2018 when the real estate firm planning to build apartments had the areas searched for unexploded bombs. the company got more back and forth to go into the watering the search. a metal container was found in one of these
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bomb craters, whose origin could not be determined hang on again, condo and the company, the berlin police bomb disposal team to check it out. and they determined that the container was filled with the chemical warfare agent. clock one comes off before and after the unwelcome discovery, the real estate company turned to an expert alford crippin doors is an engineer and former captain with the east german army. he's qualified to work with chemical agents such as mustard gas and taboo, and he set his mobile laboratory up right next to the building site for on the soil . and this long. com the you were expecting a very strong contamination of soil here. and also the recovery of large amounts of material containing arsenic, such as clark one and clark to must human being. given that the site was
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one time to a world war 2 factories that made chemical warfare agents. this is hardly a surprise. some of the old buildings are still there for decades. no one paid much attention. parties were held at both house here and the former owner, the building housing authority did nothing. now the authorities say it's up to the new owners, typically any old ordinance. but the investor doesn't want to pay for it, because that would mean passing on the cost of this toxic legacy to buyers and tenants. lot of age, a year old glass containers from the lab area. and here is a piece of the barrel the ground is full of things like this isn't height. board of them on
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tons of arsenic have already been recovered. so far, 1000 barrels has been filled to prevent us from spreading through. the water is constantly being sprayed over the area. and the poison has been detected in the ground. water barrels have to be transported to move, to be destroyed, to clean up aggression. has cars from 8 figures? what about the neighboring properties? large field studios are on the chase, not. and on the other side, can you apartment to being built? could they be chemical weapons in the ground there to hint on sullenness what? we've got no idea what's behind that fence or in the neighboring lot. not too often from wouldn't. you can assume that the soil is contaminated there as well. so i would say you can only hope that the new owners or whoever moves they're also plans to switch out the soil because we know how heavily contaminated by arsenic,
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the ground will here. it would be good if everyone did what we're doing soon. but all of all of the studies have shown that public areas are also contaminated with arsenic, an uncomfortable truth for the city of berlin. after decades of turning a blind eye, authorities have to face up to this toxic war time legacy. and it's likely to cost them a lot me got to drilling it during a pond and low saxony ended after turning up $2552.00 cash shells. in spring 2020 the local district and regional state level officials agree to excavate and completely clean up the area. the lowest section is environmental minister. all please says it was the only option that she was a month more. the extent of the contamination is much greater than we initially
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thought that was i would say we will have to invest at least $50000000.00 euros to get rid of what is there for hundreds. fortunately, that can be done in this fairly compact area to make it safe again to show that the minister doesn't want low effects, need to have to pay the costs on its own. he wants the federal government to share the burden as well. there was, but there will be a little friction with the federal government over who pay for it. and just in my eyes, the government is responsible is closed or to put it differently. residence here should know this won't not happen because of money. it has to be done, but the government has to realize, i'm not ready to carry their share. it has to be fairly divided for the monster neighborhood of the earl is just a stone's throw away from getting a pond. if anything goes wrong with the excavation site, this will be the 1st place affected most demand. christina flick and sean spoke with residence
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on an even a huge amount was dumped in dating a pond. no one thought about how dangerous it was for the environment. and for the people here on the mention of kind, spic talk as slaves you know, point being scared generally wouldn't try to stop a clean up because it has to be done. what annoys me is that they took so long to act my side. this house, the idea to me in the, in the government agreed to help fund the cleanup. painstaking operation has begun to re open up the filled in pond. an engineering firm was brought in, one experienced clearing chemical weapons. its applause for low saxony government for showing integrity on the whole. he says german politicians are far too reluctant when it comes to dealing with you, almost 200 thoughts, contamination by chemical weapons. with me. that's what
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i want to go on in the early 1990 s, the federal office for the environment pushed for research to get an overview of the situation on these sites in germany or system if you can stand order and that led to some federal state setting up so called ordinance decommissioning program itself, which resulted in targeted investigations being carried out at several sites before the phones and but it was never completed to enable but in addition to the toxins present in the soil and groundwater, the engineer has other concerns to matters of job is eaten does, there is the risk that slosik and even warfare agent could end up in the wrong hand . them to him. they couldn't. that would pose an even bigger risks to the population of some critical for the perfect posted one of those warfare agents. the nerve gas furnace. one of the most terrific chemical weapons ever made for you to
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come from palette is the nerve agent. the probably the worst, because even just very little concentrations can damage a person's nervous system and paralyzed the rest. the retreat center, leading to death from a tree failure mentioned stand on an autumn facade. first, sanction thorsten strokes surveying a sinister place the ruins of the sarah plant in munster. ah, can you hear that this is where the saran plant was demand towards the end of the war. they carried out trials here into the mass production of the warfare agents. aaron, come here to the wi fi at that time. they only produced half a ton when them pounds over that they would have eventually been able to produce 50 tons of barren a month here in more than a half and couldn't during the war. the sound factory was disguised as
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a farm house from the air. there was no indication of the experiments being carried out under ground. here. when the british took over the plant after the war, they continued to research briefly and then blew the plant up. the buildings above ground were destroyed. but what is the underground? ah, you find the kind of system this place hasn't been checked properly yet. nobody knows what could still be in here, laboratory equipment, production site materials, or even munitions, even to as many tunes. no one knows to sit and there are no plans to search still certain. the german army says it would cost too much partials and fragments of other lab equipment lie strewn around the forest. none of us being tested or cleared, ah,
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to many of the priorities means the army has little time to inspect the grounds. it isn't clear with the civilians have ever trespassed. ah, it's kind of like no one has been caught so far, which if they were, you think there would be a penalty when just kind of because like, i strongly advise against coming to this part of the property because it's very dangerous. you'll see that there are ruins from when the buildings were detonated and there is a huge chance of falling into an old shaft and never being found to use him in schools. ah, frances war fields are washed with gas shells from side in the war. the schools were, they were incineration, but the median in french forest geologist daniel has been researching the almost industrial scale destruction of the town and take him home
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on the tape. in 2015, we were officially commissioned by the environment ministry to sign post the forgotten places where chemical weapons were industrially destroyed, but can all tear it. so in inventory of at least 50 science was conducted on which is still ongoing cost on a problem. again, just condition as far as new terminal in northern france is 15 where chemical weapons for incinerated, according to wisdom and several 100000 tons were destroyed. here there are many spots when nothing has grown for a century, the ground is full of toxic fragments in class containers. and yet the force is accessible to everyone. somebody feels employer doesn't. yeah. don't. okay, we have to communicate. this is a state own forest, and so it's open to the public medical additional, you know, people often come here to pick mushroom resource. and it's not inconceivable that
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they could come into contact with toxic way, because he could stick their fingers in their mouths after they've been playing here. for example, the city share. if someone is on the phone, that's not a lot just like in germany, no one he wants to take responsibility and pay the costs from the people shout on such a settlement effectively. there are several reasons for the lack of willingness to deal with the problem that just 1st the contamination took place 100 years ago. the responsible party has long since disappeared, then he and the war ministry that gave the orders also no longer exists and the folks so now the question is, who can be held accountable? who is responsible to pay? 77 offered just to pay me. however, several incidents have forced the french government into action. the number is almost politically key to their accidents. every
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year said the gulf, the french government does for they can soon as something is found, the weapons are recovered. so long on that you, the chemical ones are put in storage until the plant to infiltrate them is complete . then what? and the explosives. here, bollocks personal topics in france ordinance, disposal is financed and run centrally by the national government. in germany. accountability lies with each regional state and their budgets very greatly. that's why german experts would like the federal government to take more control and responsibility in ah, it will be even the regional state, keep putting forward proposals for the federal government to take over the cost of ordinance removal, name and sell. now they've been consistently reject it up good. it's
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a hot potato that keeps getting passed back and forth. we received this quote from the finance ministry who are responsible for this matter. please direct your questions to the ministry responsible the federal ministry for the environment, nature conservation, a nuclear safety. the environment ministry was quick to respond. the federal government contributes to the disposal of chemical weapons through the federal ministry of finance as to the clearance of contaminated ground. here the regional government and not the federal government are responsible. this is currently not on the federal agenda. many contaminated sites belong to the german government, like to form a look in its munitions plant. in ne, germany where chemical weapons were manufactured up until 945 geologist, you'll probably see for the 1st time he's interested in the site because it was
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laid out in a similar way to form a war, munitions factory and very he studied properties such as this one managed by the institute for federal real estate, b r to highs and lisa coleman are in charge of administration and safety here. this is the only bunker not to be blow, not but the soviet army after the war. play he lost those cameras. this was used for mustard gas, which was transported here from the amend or factory near holler, and stored in one of 7 bunkers, last logo on isaacs bung because we used to store muster gas system one bunker or rather assistant with use to store clark on the main part of this plant was dedicated to producing munitions on leave, empty cartridges, mines and shells. with here are not the vote and red means out of pounds. why? oh, clear design show which parts of the 100 have
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a property can be accessed in which card? no maps, so plan, so the form of munitions factory remain. so your hand this price uses to the various plants layer for orientation me guess shells the, transported around the factory by a conveyor belt through a network of subterranean tunnels. ruins of those tunnels. still survive. after the collapse of east germany, the grounds were fenced off. these get checked once a month and 90 survey determined the contaminated areas which was sealed off the ground water was found to be severely lucian, by residues of mustard gas is in the cell. the very high concentrations are pollutants in the ground water, which are confined to certain areas. so the toxins reach is also limited, have been decreasing. does it clear decline? that's why we asked whether we need to take further action to clean the soil here.
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the ground water here also is used for drinking 3 houses here, have water wells, but they're checked regularly twice a year. and thankfully, they haven't shown any sign of contamination as far, ma'am. yeah, you haven't got some kind of stuff. but is the problem really sold just by putting a fence around your hand is price says no, he's concerned about the many off limit areas and the blind spot when it comes to war time poison, he says they could still be chemical agents in the systems here. and toxic gas shield buried in the ground. for him, the fence isn't a solution. it's part of the problem. when comes to forget, we can do what i did here and say we don't see any immediate trends and in case there are any, we'll put a fence around it. but let's consider the long term picture. i don't see that fence still standing in 75 years or 150 years on order and 100 and the problem won't go
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away on its own, said lucy, we clearly have to do something miss, unless it's a further issue. the next generation will be saddled where you need to get us to the pond. the monster will hopefully be clean when it's passed on to the next generations, even if it does cost $50000000.00 euros. but that will only happen if local, regional and national politicians stay in agreement. and as long as tax payer money flows reality by the time for all of us who bear responsibility today are not to blame for what happened years ago. and we don't know how we would have acted if we were alive done. but now it is our responsibility to make sure that this problem is resolved problem and even glue. one ended more than a 100 years ago. world war 2 more than 75. germany is really associated with chemical weapons today that they remain in the country and protected and in unknown
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quantities. even when i retire there will be plenty of munitions less to clear in germany. java them. and i think that if you don't have 1st hand experience of something, somehow some where you can, you don't know how to deal with it. and if on top of that you might cost money and benefits, i'm not interested that this is so we don't on interest on this is that we have to acknowledge that over the coming years, many, many billions more must be spent on eliminating and cleaning up the weapons of the past, difficult a few 100. 6 and i began researching contaminated science 34 years ago in 1986 by vitamin. and in my view, it's an issue that's far from over and does that leave me the satisfied me?
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i thought it would happen a lot quicker than the i thought once we tackled it and the resources were made available from the clean up was made a priority that we could do it on there is that phrase we can do it, this does this, but no we haven't done at 9, michelle told me the no matter how or flexing kind of art, how would it take to become i caught, i can take a look at how culture that is a global task. how can we got
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a lot of 30 minutes on the w o. the news for your budget, the magic corner check for for me and some great cultural memorials to boot w travels off. we go all go be on the as we take on the world, the, we're all about the stories that matter to the whatever it least meant following
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on fire made for mines. the the news . this is the news why from berlin? india faces a new health read. the country starts eating restrictions as a devastating 2nd wave of the pandemic declines, but it's not founding the all clear as a deadly infection praise. so 1900 patients also coming up colombia as president militarize is several cities after more people are killed in demonstrations against
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police, violence and inequality. the un calls for negotiation staff, the situation from spiraling further out of control.

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