what to do with them all our ways we can make a difference by choosing smartness solutions overstaying said in our way the global ideas, environmental series in global 3000 on d. w online just weeks ago now to the beginning of the summer olympics in japan preparations, though, have been hard hit by the covey 19 pandemic. and as many as 80 percent of the japanese say they want their lympics cold off. but the japanese government and the international olympic committee insist the huge event will go ahead. these nice no foreign spectators and the athletes compete in empty stadiums, many wandering books, the point, and our giant sports events like the olympics. perhaps the thing of the past year on to the point to ask tokyo olympics games at any price.

the well, thanks very much for joining us here on to the point to him, i guess in the studio the much troubled deutsche about sports reporter barbara moore, who said that for most deletes there's simply no tentative to the lympics. is the game still go ahead? the world will fall apart. also with this is higher example leading authority on the machine, nations that go on behind the scenes in the world of sport, not least in the world and the doping, c i o c's main interest is to secure its 1000000000 dollar income by making sure that the games go ahead and a very warm welcome to to fin my a coke east asia experts and former japan correspondent who argues that the tokyo games might ready look like a failure. but japan will make the best of

a very challenging situation. thank you all free for being if it i thank you for those introductory comments. i'd like to begin with. you finish with the 1st question. how important to these olympic games for japan and the people of japan, they were meant to be a liberation from the shadow of focusing my, especially the younger generation today doesn't know so many events in japanese history at all. they only know about nuclear devastation and it's now me. and originally it was meant to clear up the japanese image and all this is no turning into a disaster, admittedly. but there is not much of trying to, to now, to clothing through and making these games with spectators work. that is a dark vision as the days and weeks to come say now barbara, how important the games for the i o. c, the international olympic committee of the olympic committee. of course, that has on high importance because a lot of money depending on these games. and then again, of course,

for the athletes, it's extremely important because they have been training for years. many of these sports. they don't usually get the attention outside of the olympics. take canoeing or take tech one. do all these smaller sports, phoenix, important for those athletes that they get the, the chance to compete in front of the world. so for you, there is no doubt that the game should go ahead. there is no doubt that they will go ahead for me. i don't think we are in a point in time of time when there is a chance to to cancel them. and i do think in the eyes of the athletes, it's also important i'm going, i was about, we've got this remarkable figure of 80 percent of the japanese population apparently against the gains taking place. so you know, what of the japanese authorities, the japanese organized since the games got right so far and what have they got wrong? how do we explain this figure of 80 percent? it's very clear that the damage situation in japan is very,

very boring. are not enough vaccinations. most of the people are against his games because they i think they are not at the right time taking place. know so they think they should be postponed. another time to 2022 from my point of view for good reasons. because as i said, the risk is very high in the moment. the games should be, again postponed to, to, to, to, to 20, to be told metrics of the japanese people one presumes. then the major downsize would be they would land in the same year as china. so it would look like a co hosted double and fixed by japan and china, and we know they are enemies. fascinating point. ok, well normally the idea is that the lympics can give a big boost to the host country promoting positive national pride in bringing people together. but as we see there are serious doubts over whether that is what is happening in japan. let's look and petitions are unusual for japan, but opposition to the olympic games is growing according to polls. 80 percent of

the japanese population are against them. how many people in the world have died from corona has completely changed my mind. i feel sorry for the athletes were training so hard, but holding the limpid games in the pandemic. no, i want them cancelled. tokyo state of emergency has been extended until july 20th the vaccination rate is still me. and if you're not to mentioned warnings from doctors about variance, but corona virus is not the only reason for the opposition. you're clicking on one big imperil and big games are being used to cover up the aftermath of the 2011 fukushima nuclear disaster. and to show the world the problems there have been resolved this is a lie that we cannot tolerate. the japanese government trying to hide its own shortcomings from just tell us

a little bit more about overseas. it really a cover up on the part of the i've been trying to distract attention away from the doom and gloom of japanese society. the government already to cover up that we're seeing here. it's not a conspiracy to cover up for cushing, i was a sports event is just a p r move very big p r. move on the side of the form, a japanese prime minister who was seeing japanese, the japanese image going down river quickly for so many reasons. and want to change something about it. that's fair enough, but now it depends, emmy came and so this alone because overshadow shudder, but a 2nd disaster 1900. 64. just. this is an important date. it was a time for japan to show after the 2nd world war that they are back among the group of civilized nations they could show their technologically advanced fishing content . high speed train made its 1st run from tokyo to osaka in record speed. no other

train on the planet was as prospects then. everybody was in a good mood. and i think japan wanted to repeat this little miracle of recovery after starting 2nd world war and the pacific. now, after fukushima and everything went wrong because of course, do you think that there is any opportunity you seem to indicate this in your statements at the top of the show that the japanese people will come together and there will be a surge of enthusiasm and positive feeling around the around the game, it is quite improbable that they will be alike and then says yes, the grave of support for the, for the games are the number is just tell us, it will be that way. but i think the games will take place and they will take place in an orderly fashion that at least will show that the japanese are able to organize something like this, or pen demik conditions, a different message, but also

a message. so gonna message is the games that traditionally been used to project the image higher of the host country, the whole country has over itself. that's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. is it not? it is, but to be honest, it's about yesterday. it's about the olympic spirit. so called olympics per, it's not about a country. wherever athletes go, they want to compete, they want to win metals, they can do it at every place in the world. so i don't see any reason why we have to do that as if your wife, you have to put in japan, we can do it really. as i said, a year later, it would work, but i know that's too much box and driven president intentionally. the committee doesn't want that because he think he cannot afford as his f anymore. and also the question of money is the question of insurance. because if the games will be canceled by the i will see then maybe they will have a loss of income at the very end. and that's, it's a question from my point of view. it's not about the athletes. it's not about them

. but you have said the athletes all the means to an end. exactly. because i think it's about billions dollars euros to income caused by the tv rise contracts. but this one does have contracts. so this is what counts was the i see when people say it's all about money. they're right. to be honest. yes. barbara, i don't even disagree in this point. i just, i just also want to get the perspective of the athletes who have no alternatives to these games is just how it is. there is no, no equal competition. that gives them the same attention. so they depend on these olympics taking place. i totally agree that they could have been postponed one more time, but it's too late now. and what you to talk about the athletes. these. have you been talking personally to at least we have been following several athletes over the past year. also making the documentary at the w about that path and i have just last weekend for example,

i confirming with an athletes competing and tech wonder. and he's of course, hoping so much that these competitions are going to take place because he has invested everything into going there. and when we talk about the atmosphere again, so you have, you were insulting. and you were also in london, london, and realize that my favorite game sir, is no coincidence. i suppose london, he was going to just tell us about the atmosphere that the, the 2 difference narratives there is getting. so she and london. yeah. and re you have them into reality. absolutely. it is very different depending on the place that's taking, it's taking place in london what's, what's the great atmosphere? you could also actually the population has been very skeptical of the games. but then when they, once they started, they have been a great spirit. so many people from different places coming together and celebrating the athletes for she was far more reserved, i would say. and real was again,

something else already struggling financially the country. you could also pull it notice a difference already between the world cup and the olympics, i would say from the atmosphere and still very open. once the game started, everybody was celebrated. send to the. is there any sense of the people of japan actually believe in the games? because it's i use the word narrative. there it is. it's something you have to believe in. and in recent years, we have power politics and corruption with our doping which, you know, has been investigated and that's been huge exposures. have people, i have the people in japan lost their belief in a, in a major project of this kind. they were never really 2 answers. yes. think about that. it was charismatic. prime minister sions, or other, who made to japan won the game. now he's gone politically and call it came and stuff. so it was a difficult sell to the japanese public to begin with. the situation is so

different from 964 because japan doesn't have to prove anything anymore. money. it's important. it's an aging society. suddenly, costs play a role, especially as for pushing the aftermath is also very expensive and to shift the energy trend transition. so i know the public was always reluctant and know the mood has entirely turned against the games pose up. there was an age of innocence that implicated pre in 1964 as that age of innocence . now perhaps disappeared forever. you've talked about these games possibly being postponed, or we may be seeing the end, you know, a whole story of the games that is, you know, taking decades over under the years. i'm not sure if you can talk about a positive innocent. let's talk about a 36 olympics in germany and tell him that i have been mis abused by the nazis in

order to show the whole road to germany, of so called a peaceful country, which it hasn't been the case as you know. so i think corporate gunner was always a problem for unit picks and it's still used. and for example, i thought you in 2014 was a very, very huge example for all you can make propaganda with the olympics. just have in mind that 2 weeks after such games, the crimea was, was already se occupied by a bye bye bye bye. put in. so you know what, what has happened in the time of your pre rep there preparing for the invasion just in the lympics. let's just be i can, i'm sorry, sorry. how could sports have stopped that? i mean, you're putting a lot of burden on sports. no. how can sports fix all these problems? do you think germany would not have started 2nd world war? russia will not. i think they would have cancelled the olympia. i didn't say they just no, no, no, i'm not. i'm not saying that this was, this was as any connection with the army is what i said to use the olympics in

order to distract from political whatever consequences from political behavior. that's what's, what's happened and what happened is $36.00. you know, jewish people haven't been out on the streets before the olympics, 30 fixed after that fixed. but during the olympics, all his signs on the streets where left for a gun and then later they would have been there again. so an insult. she 2014 pages, 2008 in the time of the olympics, it was peaceful atmosphere, but what happened? it is a completely different story. maybe it's not about the sports stopping i regimes, but it's the question of do we give them the states and the possibility for support forcing in the end? i think that's a critical question. ok. moving on just a little bit before the games in tokyo get on the way. there is of course, the big kickoff in soccer's european championship on the 11th of june. another event that was postpone for a year because of the coven pandemic. now,

all the matches are taking place in existing stadiums from munich in southern germany via the russian city of st. petersburg to bar code the capital s a by john 4000 kilometers way. it's not clear how many spectators will be at each match, but there are concerns about so many fans being on the move around the continent. barbara, the euro. 2020 organizes have been working hard to create a positive bows around the tournament. have they succeeded in doing so? i'm afraid i'm a bit more skeptic about the years even than about the olympics. first of all, i do believe it's a big challenge to have this competition spread over so many different places. meaning that fans will always only gather it at one location. and now we also know to the panoramic even that is going to be difficult. so i don't really expect like big celebration laurie this, this battle atmosphere that you would usually get with these tournaments. and yeah,

still i'm quite sure it's going to stay there, the atmosphere, the euro 2020 championship to be similar to tokyo in the sense that, i mean we're, we're having to get used to empty stadiums. i think we, we have to 1st we have them. so all people going to have that in tokyo, of the games they're so sad because spelled the whole point was they build hydrogen filling stations, hydrogen gas stations all over the place to show the world public how advanced japan is. all this was in vain now. so cpr side of the event is completely watch the. yeah, and i think nobody, if you were things at the sports events without spectators, should be the norm going forward for, i mean, this is the exception in a pandemic. and there's not a model for would be different as

a euro because they are spectators, as it was a precondition from the european football soccer buddy. as i said, only with spectators at least a certain number of spectators, you will be allowed to host these games. so it's different so we will have a kind of atmosphere at the euro, but we will, we won't have it, i guess in tokyo. and when you compare the to get the games on this in the huge saca told him and what we learn by comparing the 2, i think we can compare them totally different thing. olympics are with many, many spots different sports disciplines at one place and there should be at one place from my point of view book if that if there's a so called olympic spirit football, you can play everywhere, doesn't matter. because if you look at the tv screen, it doesn't matter if it's in most coveted berlin, if it's a munich where it is, it's the same or less. so i don't see a big difference except one thing we had the so called and mild and driven operations on the streets during big tournaments. we won't have that this time and

this will never happen if you have a tournament spread over different countries. it's the digital point, the d, the centralized nature of the tournament, is that a future for major competition? i do believe in a, in a little smaller form. yes. reading over like 2 or 3 neighboring countries and it definitely see an advantage in doing that. i think in this case here, it's a little exaggerated well can events like the olympics or the soccer world cup still be a format for the future vehicle for reconciliation and ease and peace, or are they too big and to politicized? so g 2014. the winter olympics, where the closing ceremony was as massive as the price tag. these were the most expensive gains, today's costing around $50000000000.00. the i o. c, thanks president. and shortly thereafter, russia and crimea in china to the world became an autocrats guest. first,

at the 2008 summer games and next year when the country will be hosting the 2022 winter games, the sports facilities are new, but the politics remain unchanged. whether it's the suppression of the democratic protest and hong kong or the internment of weaker. now the, i was the insists that had, have human rights in mind. that's also the shared view of world soccer governing body fee for which once the 2022 world cup to be held into tar and praises, the reforms made there. however, many immigrant workers have died during the construction of stadiums in the desert . emerett should such major events be awarded to authoritarian regimes to big, tough questions and should the major events of this nature like the lympics, like the world can be awarded to the storage area and regimes? in my opinion, the answer is yes. this should happen because we are one world community on this planet and big part of the world is not ruled democratically right. excludes them

from the sports world to be doing so much trade for china, they could cut of many other types culturally, economically. why reduce the reaction to to sports? why deny authoritarian countries a possibility to host games? hi should we can for orator in countries. i mean, i'm saying we, who are we do this is should, should authoritarian the companies and nations be given a stage for authoritarian politics for making their case? is the situation in these countries as to varying? it's too bad and i would really say ok, it's not possible you can do it in countries where you have very severe away elation of human rights. that's my opinion. but i'm with you. i say you cannot exclude them at all, but you should use the leverage because you have power isn't sports buddy. and you

can use it leverage to say ok. you have to fulfill at least some criteria in order to make sure that these games will be held under the same conditions of free speech press freedom for example, and it is not the case. i would say ok then you cannot bid for the olympics as if, as a precondition or for the big championships. but there's a very end, i agree. you cannot excuse him at all in an aspect that directly relate to the games like the construction projects or so i think you should enforce i a standards, but it should the precondition be i don't know high ranking on the democracy index . probably not. right? no, i search for example, you should make, save, makes secure, your free speech press freedom for example, that people are allowed to write and report whatever they want in this country before. and during the games. just to give you one example that is not a place in some countries, and that is for me, very boring and against, by the way, against the so called human olympic spirit. there's a lot of talk if

a boy out of the 2022 winter olympics in beijing, for example, as a you know, how much of a blood would you're shaking your head? it's too late. it's too late. i think we would have been discussed had, would be needed just cause beforehand that says 7 years ago, 5 years ago. but not now we cannot do that. no. it's simply too late. as i said, they should have used the leverage is an honor to reach some level, at least of let's say, a liberal spirit in these games beforehand. they didn't know what to do to like umbrella routes. for example, of course, when the situation is getting extreme, that on short notice, it decides to withdraw the event like the, the hockey, a word cup for example, was supposed to take place in colorado. but in general, of course, it's important to, to negotiate the conditions, heads of, of giving, giving away the olympics for deciding where to take place. do you think that the

big sports can be part of the solution or part of the way back from the set back, the global set back that the corona pandemic has been sexually? yes, because the sports brings people together. we have been in a situation that separates people in everyday life in between countries and sports events will be more important than ever to go back to normality and project a sense of well being in the community of nations. yes. so it's more important than, than ever. i would agree with respect to sports in general because as a cultural value, global cultural value, which we have to respect, i'm not in favor of supporting sports organizations who do exist dropped because they have a very uncharacteristic structure in many federations. and i'm really very skeptical is these are going to your organization as

a right bodies to organize big events. and then again, there is no tentative right now. like lympics are still the only what, why it's event where people from every corner of the word up participating in people from, from all over the world also watching. so if there is any chance of bringing people together, i think it has to be fixed, not in tokyo because nobody will be there. but so what things from, from all the different stero. how are these games going to be going to be very stero? very strict rules are not only like grown tests everyday, but also a strict separation, i believe, for athletes. and during this, i'm not allowed to take trumps the public transportation to get in close contact with ben. if you population also, the athletes can only stay there for a very short time, which means that right off of the competition, i think within 48 hours, they have to leave the country again. which means that they are not able to, together to party, to, to, to be there at the closing ceremony in the end,

which is also a very emotional moment usually important for the absolutely the high point of their career. very, very often. absolutely. so this is going to how, how the, this was the thing of the elliptic, so we get the statement, the best selling, pick several, whatever, you know, where are these are going to be bought with the pile? there will be, it's a very, very, very, and all the pick history, i guess it's a there and we'll have to leave it there. thanks very much for joining us. we're talking about this. ok, lympics probably going to happen. what's the se moved? going to be thanks very much for joining us. thanks very much. my 3 guest as well. enjoy the show. come back next time. bye bye. i'm sure.

the the the the, the me use the use

the, the, the the code ah, species expedition looking to design the re, mammals to communicate. we accompany a research team to the pacific and to decode the language of wales. 15 minutes on the forgotten about for a long time,

bobby, a glue and his colleague directing traffic again and the p as an easier transformed into a real containing once more it was oh, we just said now the american point in our lives will experience hardship. listen, w for money. future wars w's.

richard walker explores the evolution of digital warfare, making military law more efficient, deadly. those with the algorithms, the interest scenario. as future wars starts june 10th, w, frankfurt airport, international gateway to the best connection, south road and radio. located in the heart of europe, you are connected to the world experience and standing shopping and dining offers. enjoying our services. be our guest at frankfurt airport city managed by fretboard. oh

the news . this is d. w. news live from berlin. israel's benjamin netanyahu is not going down without a fight for opponents agreed to a french coalition to end the prime minister's 12 year rule netanyahu is battling to undo that alliance before it can formerly take power. also on the program, hundreds of thousands of volcano evacuees in the democratic republic of congo, returned hyde, but many still face a daunting future as their home.