the new global 3000 theories about the threats we are facing. and the heroes taking a stand for over $3000.00 theories start june 21st on d w. the just weeks ago now to the beginning of the summer olympics in japan preparations though, have been hard hit by the cove it 19 pandemic. and as many as 80 percent of the japanese say they want the lympics cold off. but the japanese government and the international olympic committee insists the huge event will go ahead even it's no foreign spectators and the athletes competing empty stadiums. many wondering what's the point and our giant sports events like the olympics, perhaps a thing of the past year on to the point to ask tokyo olympics games at any price.

the news well, thanks very much for joining us here on to the point to him. i guess in the studio of the much troubled daughter, bella, sports reporter, barbara moore, who said that for most athletes there's simply no alternative to the olympics. if the game still go ahead that world will fall apart. also with this is higher zeppelin and leading authority on the machine, nations that go on behind the scenes in the world of sport, not least in the world of doping. he says the i o c's main interest is to secure its 1000000000 dollar income by making sure that the good go ahead and a very warm welcome to defend my cook, oak east asia, experts and former japan correspondent to argue that the tokyo gangs might look

like a failure, but japan will make the best of a very challenging situation. thank you. sorry for being in it. i thank you for those introductory comments. i'd like to begin with. you finish with the 1st question. how important to these olympic games for japan and the people of japan, they were meant to be a liberation from the shadow. of course him i especially the younger generation today, doesn't know so many events in japanese history at all. they only know about nuclear devastation and it's now me. and originally it was meant to clear up the japanese image and all this is no turning into a disaster, admittedly. but there's not much of turnitin now to clothing through and making these games without spectators work. that is a dark vision as the days and weeks to come say no barbara, how important are the games for the i o. c, the international olympic committee of the olympic committee. of course that house on high importance because a lot of money depending on these games. and then again of course for the athletes,

it's extremely important because they have been training for years. many of these sports. they don't usually get the attention outside of the olympics, take canoeing or to pick one. do all these smaller sports, phoenix, important for those athletes that they get the, the chance to compete in front of the world. so for you, there is no doubt that the game should go ahead. there is no doubt that they will go ahead for me. actually, i don't think we are in a point in time of time where there is a chance to, to cancel them. and i do think in the eyes of the athletes, it's also important going, i was up, i will go, this is multiple figure of 80 percent of the japanese population, apparently against the games taking place. what of the japanese authorities, the japanese organized for the games. got right, so fall, and what if they got wrong? how do we explain this figure of 80 percent? it's very clear that the damage situation in japan is very,

very boring. that are not enough explanations. most of the people are against these games because they think they are not at the right time taking place. no. so they think they should be postponed. another time to 2022 from my point of view for good reasons, because as i said, the risk is very high in the moment of the game should be again postponed to, to, to, to it was on $22.00 control metrics of the jump and these people one presumes, then the major downside would be they would land the same year as china. so it would look like a co hosted double loan fixed by japan and china, and we know they are enemies. a fascinating point. okay, well normally the idea is that the lympics can give a big boost to the host country promoting positive national pride and bringing people together. but as we see, there are serious doubts over whether that is what is happening in japan. let's have a look. invitations are unusual for japan, but opposition to the olympic games is growing according to polls. 80 percent of

the japanese population are against them. how many people in the world have died from corona has completely changed my mind. i feel sorry for the athletes were training so hard, but holding the limpid games in the pandemic. no, i want them cancelled. tokyo state of emergency has been extended until july 20th the vaccination rate is still me. and if you're not to mentioned morning from the doctors about variance, but corona virus is not the only reason for the opposition home to pick him out for the limbic imperil. and big games are being used to cover up the aftermath of the 2011 fukushima nuclear disaster. and to show the world the problems there happened resolve. this is ally that we cannot tolerate. is the japanese government trying to hide its own shortcomings

from just tell us a little bit more about all they see really a cover up on the part of the i've been trying to distract attention away from the doom and gloom of japanese society. the government already to cover up that we're seeing here. it's not a conspiracy to cover. for cushing, my was the sport event is just a p r move very big p r. move on the side of the form, a japanese prime minister who was seeing japanese, the japanese image going down river quickly for so many reasons. and wanted to change something about it. that's fair enough. but now the pandemic came. and so this alone because overshadow shattered by a 2nd disaster, 1964. just. this is an important date. it was a time for japan to show after the 2nd world war that they back among the group of civilized nations they could show their technologically advanced fishing content. high speed train made its 1st run from tokyo to osaka in record speed. no other

train on the planet was as prospects then. everybody was in a good mood. and i think japan wanted to repeat this little miracle of recovery after starting 2nd world war and the pacific. now, after fukushima and everything went wrong because of course, and do you think that there is any opportunity you seem to indicate this in your statements at the top of the show that the japanese people will come together and there will be a surge of enthusiasm and positive feeling around the around the game. it is quite improbable that they will be alike and says, yes, the wave of support for the, for the games and the number is just tell us, it won't be that way. but i think the games will take place and they will take place in an orderly fashion that at least will show that the japanese are able to organize something like this on their pen demik conditions, a different message, but also

a message. so gonna message is the games have traditionally been used to project the image higher of the host country of the country has over itself. that's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. is it not? it is, but to be honest, it's about the athletes that about the olympic spirit. so called olympics per it's, it's not about a country. wherever athletes go, they want to compete, they want to win metals, they can do it at every place in the world. so i don't see any reason why we have to do that as if your wife you have to do is in japan, we can do it really. as i said, a year later it would work. but i know that's too much. boston drummond, president dos intentionally. the committee doesn't want that because he think he cannot afford as his anymore. and also the question of money is the question of insurance, because if the games will be canceled by the i will see then maybe they will have a loss of income at the very end. and that's, it's a question from my point of view. it's not about the essays,

it's not about them. but you have said the athletes all the means to an end. exactly. because i think it's about billions dollars euros to income caused by the tv land contracts, but this one does have contracts. so this is what counts was the i see when people say it's all about money. they're right. to be honest. yes. barbara, i don't even disagree in this point. i just, i just also want to give the perspective of the athletes who have no alternatives to these things as to how it is, there is no, no equal competition. that gives them the same attention. so they depend on these olympics taking place. i totally agree that they could have been postponed one more time, but it's too late now. when you to talk about the athletes, these, have you been talking personally to at least we have been following several athletes over the past year in also making the documentary at the w about their path. and i have just last weekend for example,

confirming with an athletes competing and took 10. and he's of course hoping so much that these competitions are going to take place because he has invested everything into going there. and when we talk about them as fairs again, so you have, you were insulting. and you were also in london, london, and realize it. my favorite game sir, is no coincidence. i suppose london, he was going to tell us about the atmosphere that the 2 difference narratives their game. so she had london. yeah. and real awesome into reality. absolutely. at the atmosphere is very different depending on the place that's taking. it's taking place in london. what's, what's a great atmosphere? you could also actually, the population has been very skeptical had of the games. but then when they, once they started, they have been a great spirit. so many people from different places coming together and celebrating the athletes for she was far more reserved, i would say. and real was again,

something else already struggling financially the country. you could also notice a difference already between the world cup and the olympics. i would say from the atmosphere and still very open. once the game started, everybody was celebrated and send to the. is there any sense of the people of japan actually believe in the games? because it says i use the word narrative. there it is. it's something you have to believe in, and in recent years we have power politics and corruption. we've had doping which, you know, has been investigated and that's been huge exposures. have people i have the people in japan lost their belief in a, in a major project of this kind. they were never really 2 answers. yes. think about that. it was charismatic. prime minister sions, or other, who made to japan won the game. now he's gone politically and of course came and stuff. so it was a difficult sell to the japanese public to begin with. the situation is so

different from 964 because japan doesn't have to prove anything anymore. money. it's important. it's an aging society, suddenly costs play a role, especially as for pushing the aftermath is also very expensive and he shifted the energy trend transition. so i know the public was always reluctant, and now the mood has entirely turned against the games pose. up. there was an age of innocence that implicated pre $964.00. has that age of innocence, now perhaps disappeared forever. you've talked about these games possibly being postponed. we may be seeing the end, you know, a whole story as the games that, as, you know, taking decades over under years. i'm not sure if you can talk about a positive innocent. let's talk about a 36 olympics in germany and i have been mis or abused by a, by the nazis in order to show the whole road to germany,

if so called peaceful country, which it hasn't been the case as you know. so i think corporate gunner was always a problem for the unit picks and it's still used. and for example, in 2014 was a very, very huge example for all you can make propaganda with the olympics. just have in mind that 2 weeks after such games the crimea was, it was already occupied by a bye bye bye bye bye. put in. so you know what to what has happened in the time of the room to prepare rep preparing for the invasion just in the lympics. let's just be i can, i'm sorry, i'm sorry. how could sports have stopped that? i mean, you're putting a lot of burden on sports. no. how can sports fix all these problems? you think germany would not have started 2nd world war. russia will know that they didn't have cancelled the olympic. i didn't say they just. no, no, no, i'm not. i'm not saying that is this was, this was, has any connection with the army is what i said to use the olympics in order to

distract from political whatever consequences from political behavior. that's what's what happened and what happened is 36, you know, jewish people haven't been out on the streets before the olympics. 36 after the little bit, but during the mix, all his signs on the streets where left for a gun. and then later there have been, there are again so, and so actually 2014 or paging 2008 in the time of the olympics. it was peaceful atmosphere. but what happened? it is a completely different story. maybe it's not about the sports stopping regimes, but it's the question is, do we give them the states and the possibility for support forcing and the end? i think that's a critical question. ok. moving on just a little bit before the games in tokyo gets on the way. there is of course, the big kickoff in soccer's european championship on the 11th of june. another event that was postponed for a year because of the coven pandemic. now,

all the matches are taking place in existing stadiums from munich in southern germany via the russian city of saint petersburg to bar code, the capital of s a by john 4000 kilometers way. it's not clear how many spectators will be answered each match. but there are concerns about so many fans being on the move around the continent. barbara, the euro, 2020 organizes have been working hard to create a positive buzz around the tournament. have they succeeded in doing so? i'm afraid i'm a bit more skeptic about the years even than about the olympics. first of all, and i do believe it's, it's a big challenge to have this competition spread over so many different places. meaning that fans will always only gather it at one location. and now we also know to the panoramic even that is going to be difficult. so i don't really expect like big celebration floria this, this battle atmosphere that you would usually get with these tournaments. and yeah,

still i'm quite sure it's going to stay there, the atmosphere, the euro 2020 championships to be similar to tokyo in the sense that, i mean we're, we're having to get used to empty stadiums. i think we, we have to, 1st we have them all people going to have that in tokyo, of the games. they're so sat because spelled the whole point was they built hydrogen filling stations, hydrogen gas stations all over the place to show the world public how advanced japan is. all this was in vain now. so cpr side of the event is completely watch the. yeah. and i think nobody here would think that the, the sports events was out, spectators should be the norm going forward for, i mean, this is the exception and pandemic. and there's not a model would be different as

a euro because they are spectators, as it was a precondition from the european football soccer buddy. yeah, as i said, only was spectators, at least a certain number of spectators you will be allowed to host these games. so it's different so we will have a kind of atmosphere at the euro, but we will, we won't have it, i guess in tokyo. and when you compare the to get the gains on the in the huge saca told him and what we learn by comparing the 2, i think we can compare them a totally different thing. olympics are with many, many sports different sports disciplines at one place and there should be at one place from my point of view book. if that is a so called experience football, you can play everywhere, doesn't matter. because if you look on the tv screen, it doesn't matter if it's in most coverage valley and if it's in munich where it is, it's the same or less. so i don't see a big difference except one thing we had. so chords and mild and driven separations on the streets during big tournaments,

we won't have that this time and it will never happen if you have a tournament spread over different countries. at the point, the d, the d centralized nature of the tournament, is that a future for major competition? i do believe in a, in a little smaller form. yes. spreading over like 2 or 3 neighboring countries. i did definitely see an advantage in doing that. i think in this case here, it's a little exaggerated well can events like the olympics or the soccer world cup still be a format for the future vehicle for reconciliation and even peace, or are they too big and to politicized g. 2014. the winter olympics, where the closing ceremony was as masters, as the price tag. these were the most expensive gains to costing around $50000000000.00. the i think president. and shortly thereafter, russia and crimea in china to the world, became an autocrats guest. first,

at the 2000 a summer games and next year when the country will be hosting the 2022 winter games . the sports facilities are new, but the politics remain unchanged. whether it's the suppression of the democratic protest and hong kong or the internment of weaker. now the, the insists that have human rights in mind. that's also the shared view of world suckers governing body fever which wants the 2022 world cup to be held in tar and praises. the reforms made there. however, many immigrant workers have died during the construction of stadiums in the desert . emerett ships such major events to be awarded to authoritarian regime the, to big, tough question. should the major events of this nature like the lympics, like the world can be awarded to the storage area and regimes? in my opinion, the answer is yes. this should happen because we are one world community on this planet and big part of the world is not ruled democratically. why excludes them

from the sports world to be doing so much trade? this china, we could cut of many other ties culturally, economically. why reduce the reaction to to sports? why deny authoritarian countries a possibility to host games? hi should we can for returning countries. i mean, i'm saying we, who are we to make sure that showed authoritarian countries and nations be given a stage for authoritarian politics for making their case if the situation in these countries is too varying, it's too bad and i would really say ok, it's not, not possible, you can do it in countries where you have a very severe away edition of human rights. that's my opinion, but i'm with you. i say you cannot exclude them at all. but you should use leverage

because you have power isn't a sports buddy. and you can use it every to say ok, you have to fulfill at least some criteria in order to make sure that these games will be held under that fe, conditions of free speech or freedom for example. and if it is not the case, i would say ok, then you cannot bid for the in a big this is a precondition or for the big championships, but there's a very end, i agree. you can excuse him at all in an aspect that directly relate to the games like the construction projects or so i think you should enforce i a standards, but it should the precondition be i don't know high ranking on the democracy index . probably not. right? no, i such for example, you should make, save, makes secure, the free speech press freedom for example, that people are allowed to bright and report whatever they want in this country before. and during the games. just to give you one example that is not the place in some countries, and that is for me, very boring and against, by the way, against the so called human olympic spirit. there's a lot of talk of

a boy out of the 2022 winter olympics in beijing for example, is that you know how much of a blood would you're shaking your head? it's too late. it's too late. i think we would have been discussed how would we need to just kind of beforehand that says 7 years ago, 5 years ago, but not that much. now we cannot do that. no. it's simply too late. as i sent say, should have used the leverage is an honor to reach some level, at least of that, say, a liberal spirit in these games beforehand. they didn't know what to do after jason's like umbrella ruth, for example, of course, when the situation is getting extreme, that on short notice you decide to withdraw the events like the, the hockey word cup for example, which was supposed to take place in the roof. but in general, of course, it's important to to negotiate the conditions i had of, of giving, giving away the olympics for deciding where to take place. so do you think that the

big sports can be part of the solution or part of the way back from the set back, the global set back of the corona pandemic has been sexually? yes, because the sports bring people together. you have been in a situation that separates people in everyday life in between countries and sports events will be more important than ever to go back to normality and project a sense of well being in the community of nations. yes. so it's more important than, than ever. i would agree with respect to sports in general because as a cultural value, global cultural value, which we have to respect, i'm not in favor of supporting sports organizations who do exist job because they have a very uncharacteristic structure in many federations. and i'm really very skeptical is these are going to your organizations are the right bodies to organize

big events. and then again, there is no alternative right now like the olympics are still the only what, why it's event where people from every corner of the word up participating and people from, from all over the word also watching. so if there is any chance of bringing people together, i think it has to be fixed, not in tokyo, but nobody will be there. but so what things from, from all the different stero. how are these games going to be going to be very thorough? they're very strict rules are not only like grown tests every day, but also a strict separation i believe for athletes and journalist are not allowed to take trumps public transportation to get in close contact with stephanie's pocket population. also the athletes can only stay there for a very short time, which means that right off of the competition, i think within 48 hours, they have to leave the country again. which means that they are not able to, together to party to, to be there at the closing ceremony in the end,

which is also a very emotional moment usually usually important for the absolutely high point of their career. very, very often. absolutely. so this is going to how, how the, there's always this thing of the zillow picks that we get the statement, the best selling, pick several, whatever, you know, where are these? and they are going to be bought from the pile very, very, very, and all the history i guess as well after they did that, thanks very much for joining us. we're talking about that's ok. lympics, are they going to happen? what the say mood going to be, thanks very much for joining us. thanks very much. my 3 guest as well. enjoyed the show. come back next time. bye bye. i'm sure. the

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news. this is d w. news live from berlin, remembering china's bloody crackdown on pro democracy demonstrations a t. m, and square. chinese troops opened fire on their own people who were calling for reform 32 years ago. today, we will speak with one of the leaders of the student movements from the time. also coming up, police arrest prominent hong kong activist chow, hong kong. she is known for getting thousands gone to the street to remember the 1989.