that's what from producer and journalist eve cuban mom are exploring, delving into history and the present because i would never have thought that i can believe so. and so i believe it's jewish in europe. the 2 part documentary starts july 5th on d, w. i on many occasions i made some 5 powerful people, very angry, but you don't shame them into changing their behavior though. do you, commission of human rights and my mandate is very clear. europe has almost nothing to teach the rest of the world about human rights subjects. it is not black and white. this is not easy. the council of europe has issued its latest verdicts on human rights and democracy in europe. and it makes unpleasant reading. europe's democratic environment and institutions it says are in mutually reinforcing,

decline. we talked a lot about democracy and human rights on this program, and spend a good deal of time holding politicians to account for actions for the peace when danger those rights. but the situation is now so critical was decided to question a leading official is trying to protect human rights about why that protection is famous. junior me after which is commissioner for human rights to the council of europe. and she joins me now, some stuff, but what is it gone wrong? the don't you may as of welcome to comfort zone. thank you. 2 months ago you press the emergency button on human rights in europe. you said 2020 had been a disastrous year for those rights on the continent. one of the bleakest

assessments to be heard for a long time. do you think anybody is listening to your warning? well, i hope so. it is something that is affecting us all. no matter which part of the world, and if this is not a moment for all government in europe and beyond, to take a long, hard look in the mirror and realize how important it is that we move forward in a different way than we being moving until now, before this unprecedented time, we are all facing what people are listening because plenty of your warnings in the past have fallen on deaf ears. one example the issue of migrant abuse in hungry as far back as 2019. you said this needed to be addressed as a matter of urgency. nothing was done on gary and continued pushing back migrants

across the border with serbia. my question is, why do you think you lack the personal authority to change the minds of people who do these things who commit these violations or is hungry a loss cause? well, i would not say hungering loss call. first of all because of the area because the people that rely on the protection of the convention when it comes to my personal influence and the impact the time will tell, i cannot change the government. i cannot play to be in a position, but i can use something that is the most powerful tool in my, to the commissioner, which is my voice. giving my voice, the voiceless, making sure that human rights violations are documented. and this is something that is, or the, i would say extremely important. the impact can be measured in different ways, but many are indifferent. international organizations have been saying for years

about various situation and also in situation of many other countries that are moving in a very direction and say, so freedom of media, for example, comes to my mind already in 2010 in a different position. i warns about social media x again, i said this is going to teach the mirror and it's happening right now. nevertheless, we should not be, but we should continue warnings and using all the tools that we have our disposal and ultimately the decision of variance and also the government that should comply with the international law and standard when it gives you just hungry is it? there are plenty of states that are involved in these violations. you often hear the claim that human rights must be sacrificed for the sake of protecting national or european boundaries. what do you tell those governments which,

which advance that argument? i totally disagree with this. i think this is a wrong path and wrong way, but equally up to everything that europe at the continent experienced in the last decade. the 70 years ago when the organizational councils, europe was established. this is not the way to protect multilateralism. muslims is approved to be extremely important, not only for democratic countries, but also countries that are trying to move forward some democratic order. and you know, i come from from booking and had to go. and i know how it is important to move forward and recognize the international issues at the same time, of course, protecting culture tradition, but not using it as an excuse not to protect human rights. this is wrong. and

because of this view, on many occasions, i made some 5 powerful people, very angry with, in a ways part of mine, and i don't make them angry, but you don't shame them into changing their behavior though. do you? well, i've tried to shame domain name then, but then at the end, you know, it really depends on the government what they are due. as i said, i cannot, i'm not an opposition. political position, i'm commissioner for human rights. and my mandate is very clear. it was created by those states in order to be mine. it is quite a young institution 20 year meant, but it's also quite unique because it is the economist independence. and it is up to the commissioner to decide, in which direction to grow the attention and to call for respect of human rights. of course, i really do. this is not black and white. this is not easy. we don't like to see results either without commission. i understand the key to the effective

functioning of the council is the binding commitment, supposedly, of member countries to implement decisions of the european court of human rights. that too has been a significant failure. hasn't it? your own figures show it as of january this year, a staggering 45 percent of the leading judgments from the court, finalized in the last 10 years have not been implemented. that's a shocking figure, isn't it? it is shocking feedback, but at a time we also need to recognize that many decision, you know, they were implemented and there are states that still do honor their commitments. this is quite extraordinary what we are facing at the moment. and here i can just mention cases that are affecting people i can really refer to the case of the man cabella who i visited the prison 2 years

ago. he is still in prison. even though there is a judgement from the board of human rights and turkish governments, he's not implementing extremely important judgment. nobody in russia is another. i want you to come on and i want to talk about russia and about me in a moment. but, but these rulings are your most important tool for correcting injustice and governments are throwing huge numbers of them in the been and my question is, if, if that doesn't work, and that's your major lever, your major mechanism for righting wrongs. what have you got left? i think it's not collected there. it's one of the mechanisms, of course it is extremely important. find i can always present a 3rd party intervention like i did. many of the cases that we already mention,

but then it is ultimately, you know, with the states and also the committee of ministers of the council of europe that is monitoring execution of the judgment of the repeal code of human rights for me. the other tools at my disposal, bilateral discussions, but also teaching access to presents in order to really try to understand the situation that in some cases, extremely complex. but i agree with you that the, the fusion of the judgment of europe, kim, quoted human rights is a t. and that it's something that we need to, to do more, more needs to be done on the political level. we need more, you know, governments that are willing to, to name the space that are not really how they could be a document. they seem to be in short supply. those governments, you, you have pointed out, the coven covered pandemic because accelerated,

the decline of democracy in europe with governments acquiring special powers that have served to erode the checks and balances on them. but this process has been under way for a long time. as you said, on april 21st commitment to upholding human rights values has been faltering all over the continent for several years. so during those years, there should have been time to stop the slide. now, why wasn't the intervention done much, much earlier when the pattern was seen and identified? well, that is the question of him dollar for all of us to answer and also lost our self by you facing this situation now. but it should, should germany, france, u. k. i mean, they will claim to value human, right. what i have done, most of the states should have done more, but when it comes to human rights protection, i would say, you know, based on my career and everything i did not as a, as a st. is,

is it is america. i would say it is difficult to to the results results required time. but i think the commitment to the p here, and i don't have time do they do new me out of it's a lot of the day i living in a pulling conditions and poorly human rights abuse and all these many visiting many. but they're also results only yesterday i learned about a decision by the check parliament to compensate rama women that suffered sterilization in the ninety's, which was part of my work and engagement department. and the government justice is also very slow. but it is important that we see, and i agree with you. there are many, many parts of marginalized parts of the society that are waiting for impact and

waiting for their health to help from isn't it, isn't it true? commission of the business in a way is to blame for this faltering commitment that you've spoken about this idea, for instance, that germany always pushes change through trade. you get the trade, but in terms of human rights, nothing changes. does it look at the deals with china and rough russia? no leverage human rights whatsoever? this was especially true of the controversial no stream to gas deal with russia. no human rights considerations were allowed to get in the way of that were there, this is, this is a lost opportunity, isn't it? the push human rights? of course, each time of human rights are not in the center of any kind of discussions. we fade . and we move backwards, but at the same time, i think this should also be assigned to all parts of working in human rights area.

not to really of the in a way ignorance for these happenings. of course, the do follow everything but my work and my mandate gives me, you know, many opportunities to raise these questions with the governments, with society in many of the state. and for me, dialogue is a p as well. but also the same time, you know why diplomacy has to get from, with the dialogue has to get somewhere, doesn't it? and i'm looking at your report. europe has almost nothing to teach the rest of the world about human rights. does it you said in contemporary your human rights defenders are killed? abducted jailed harris. the space for civil society when those democratic institutions are dismantled, independent judges removed. journalists are silenced by pointing,

though that you've effectively demolished the idea that europe is some kind of beacon of human rights, haven't you? it isn't, it isn't anymore than i would. i would still say that it. there are many things that we should not take for granted and forgot that, you know, millions of people have become free from oppression, poverty, free to live there. one. so it's not in black and white, and you just portrayed europe much better than 15 years of steady decline, of observance of human rights and democratic principles. that's nothing to be proud of. is it? no, that's nothing to be proud of. but as i said, there are still examples of government, you know, really accepting refugees doing great things, vocal human right. you, you mentioned russia is take a state that doesn't appear to be committed to those rights like, oh, member countries. russia agreed to be banned by the rulings of the european court

of human rights. but in the case of the opposition leader elect saying the boundaries which you mentioned earlier. russia has clearly fell to the orders of the court, hasn't it? the court said in february, nevada, and they should be temporary released from jail because the government couldn't provide sufficient safeguards for his life and health rushes, justice minister called the ruling unenforceable and threw it in the been where does that leave you? well, this is a clear disregard of human rights and international obligations about the case is emblematic case. this also shows that beneath, you know, there are many more problems like a lack of independent judiciary in russia. human rights abuses in chechnya, lack of investigation, repression of descent and harass mental human rights defenders. so it's not just about just one case where we see that the russian federation is completely

disregarding the decision of the board of human rights. but i still remain hopeful that he will be soon free and the structure will show importance one. 2 member of the council of europe is based on a commission and because the russian state also called the court ruling blatant and gross interference in the judicial affairs of a foreign state. now that one statement undermines the basis on which countries belong to the counselor, doesn't it? the fact is, if the council does nothing about this, then countless numbers of people in russia and elsewhere will conclude that you're simply not capable of enforcing the climates of council membership. and standing up to tough and abusive governments is not right. not really. it is not that simple. it is up to the government to implement the judgment. it is up to the

committee of ministers of the council of europe to push for the institution of the judgment. we have to keep dialogue with dorothy is also in difficult situation and it is not because of difficulties that we give up. on the contrary, i think this is also a moment for the council of europe to do more than ever before and did all the institutions and all the mechanisms that we had disposal. i think at the end of the seat, this cannot happen overnight. at the same time, i completely agree with you that not as the teaching judgment of europe right isn't acceptable. and all the countries that are really not doing it should be polls optically. and really, you know, we should try to do as much as we can in order to continue pushing for the release of people that are sitting in jail and commission that unacceptable is,

is an overused word internationally, isn't it? it's normally meant to cover things that we've already accepted, but which we haven't. russia has faced credible allegations of attempting to murder, not only lex and me, but a former intelligence officer said a script on his daughter in england and 2018. and that say, are accused of murdering another former office that alexander live when you go in london, in 2000. and 6, russia denies all these charges, but these are credible allocations and it still has its seat in the council art, isn't it? but despite these allegations, from a european body, it's still allowed to keep its seat in a body that promotes democracy in human rights. why is that? why is that? i mean, this is not really a question i can answer because not only russia,

but all the states are teaching in international organizations. they have a seat in the security council un be including council. if you're my role is not to make a judgement to states should you know, as a member or not is definitely out. you know, my mandate. what is in my mandate is to remind those states to comply with commitments and to honor the values. and that they agree when they became members of different international organizations, nobody pushed russia or poor. russia will become a member of the council of europe or any other country. why do we see normal russia? many other countries are simply taking the box and saying, we are proud member of this organization and not doing anything. it's

a huge question for all of us. but this council of europe, the problem is it gives many governments a cloak of respectability that they don't deserve. doesn't it? like as i said, you know, being member of the club, you know, always the honorable thing. but if you do not follow the rules of the club and you know, due to something that should be exposed then to seat in the counsel, i think it's important to say is to ensure the protection of the citizen, not the government. we work for, for the people, including people because government behave badly, would leave people without protection, which is the last thing i would like to see a commissioner of human rights engaging with the ordinary people. marginalize people is the main issue for me when you're doing a lot of monitoring, then protecting these days though on to you're not, you're not the people in turkey, for instance, last year,

nearly 26000 people were in jail, awaiting trial on terrorism charges that continue to be widely misused and used in fact to restrict free expression of association. they're not protected. no, i mean daily. you know, you're wrong here. you know, protection mean much more than just, you know, saying okay, i'm just going with this more than i'm going to protect all those people know, people in turkey do feel protected by my office and me personally, they see my office as always is where they can complain and you know, seek protection and this happened on, on many occasions i was given access as i already stated, to present to see an estimate please release now. and i do try to engage in the government, the government on the issue of human rights defenders and journalist center

numerous cases before the court. but it's not an easy task. but at the same time, it is honorable and it gives me even more energy to, to engage, to try to help people helping one individual can also change a lot in any countries. but you righty stated the previously that at the moment the do not leave in a good time for human rights. human rights on and elected pushed under the carpet by many governments. ultra conservative groups are targeting civil society and human rights defenders. and this is a said, why are we facing this situation? as i already said, it's a question for this color. nevertheless, we need to continue working when it's also a question, you can't just blame the governments, can you?

what about the people who put them there? what happens when free elections empower politicians who then take away their rights? what then? what then? well, the question is also the election over 3 unfair. it's not the case all the time. you have many reports from credible international organizations, including parliamentary assembly of the council of europe stating that certain election a certain date. but everything but not free and fair. so you end up with the governments, want to stay forever neglect human rights. and this is something we should not hello. i have a mandate for 47 members of the council of europe and differences are huge, but no date is a noun to violations of human rights. and documenting this and pointing out and working together with people can bring results not overnight,

but the fact that the fact is the autocrat. so winning on fe when you look back through the centuries, it's repression. that's the enduring constant, not democracy. and now that repression is back with a vengeance, and we have to face that fact and we yes that's, that's true. but i would not say that the article be winning. there are examples and we should listen to different voices in the society. but fee should not use those voices that are spreading like fake news targeting human right defenders. generally civil society in order to to win roles. he should not use these as a excuse for not doing enough. but what i think is also important is that all international innovation should use the situation now and try to push

for changes by putting human rights into the guy. and i understand that, but very briefly, if you keep sounding the alarm bell and nothing improves and it hasn't been improving as we pointed out over the last 15 years, it's been a steady decline. the danger is that people are going to stop listening on fe. there are still on the line, but i disagree that there was no progress and there were no issues related to right . that's improved in many member states. if you look at the situation, the del g, b t, community, when it comes to women's rights, i mean they are still fighting. the struggle is present, but it's the tradition changed for better. if you look at rama communities in many days, they were examples of, of success and moving forward. so it's not just, you know, completely, you know,

really grim determination that we need to just accepted and say ok the fail. no, we did. not. all right, activists, i'm afraid we're out of time. thanks very much for being with us and company. so thank you. thank you very much. the news news. the news, the news, the

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i use this is the w news coming to live from berlin. joe biden says he's ready to confront russia. us president promises a tough response if russia harm's democracy is in the united kingdom to meet with world leaders on his 1st trip since taking office will hear about his ambitious agenda. meanwhile, russia itself edges further away from democracy. moscow court declares alexandra bonnie and his anti corruption network in extremis group and bars. his supporters

from elections. european union condemns the ban.