boundaries which you mentioned earlier. russia has clearly routed the orders of the court, hasn't it? the court said in february in nevada, they should be temporary released from jail because the government couldn't provide sufficient safeguards for his life and health rushes, justice minister, called the ruling unenforceable. and threw it in the been, where does that leave you? well, this is a clear disregard of human rights and international obligations about the case is emblematic case. this also shows that beneath, you know, there are many more problems like a lack of independent judiciary in russia. human rights abuses in chechnya, lack of investigation, repression of descent and harassed mental human rights defenders. so it's not just nevada, nevada, you just one case where we see that the russian federation is completed is regarding the decision of the board of human rights. but i still remain hopeful

that he will be soon free, and rochester show their importance. one member of the council of europe is based on a commission of because the russian states also called the court ruling blatant and gross interference in the judicial affairs of a foreign state. now that one statement undermines the basis on which countries belong to the council of yours doesn't. the fact is, if the council does nothing about this, then countless numbers of people in russia and elsewhere will conclude that you're simply not capable of enforcing the appointments of council membership and standing up to tough and abusive governments is not right. not really. it is not that simple, it is up to the government to implement the judgement is up to the committee of ministers, of the council of europe to push for the tuition of the judgment. we have to keep

the dialogue with dorothy is also in difficult situation and it is not because of difficulties that we give up. on the contrary, i think this is also a moment for the council of europe to do more than ever before and did all the institutions and all the mechanisms that we had disposal. i think at the end of the seat, this cannot happen overnight. at the same time, i completely agree with you. not as the teaching judgement of europe, right, is on acceptable. and all the countries that are really not doing it should be polls optically. and really, you know, we should try to do as much as we can in order to continue pushing for the release of people that are sitting in jail and document commission, unacceptable is, is an over used word internationally, isn't it?

it's normally meant to cover things that we've already accepted, but wish we hadn't russia has faced credible allegations of attempting to murder. not only like st. me, but a former intelligence officer said a script on his daughter in england in 2018. and they actually are accused of murdering another former officer, alexander, when you go in london in 2006, russia denies all these charges, but these are credible allocations and it still has its seat in the council aren't, isn't it the, despite these allegations, from a european body, it's still allowed to keep its seat in a body that promotes democracy and human rights. why is that? why is that? i mean, this is not really a question i can answer because not only russia, but all the states are teaching in international organization. they have

a seat in the security council un be including council, if you wrote, my role is not to make a judgement to states should you know, as a member or not is definitely out. you know, my mandate. what is it is in my mandate is to remind those states to comply that the commitments and to honor the values and that they agree when they became members of different international organizations. nobody pushed russia or port russia will become a member of the council of europe or any other country. why do we see that? not russia. many other countries are simply taking the box and saying, we are proud member of this and organization and not doing anything. it's a huge question, but this is council of europe. the problem is it gives many governments of coke of

respectability that they don't deserve. doesn't it? like, as i said, you know, being member of the club, you know, always the honorable thing, but if you do not follow the rules of the club and you know, due to something that should be exposed, then the seat in the council i think is important to say is to ensure the protection of the citizen, not the government. we work for, for the people, including people because government behave badly, would leave people without protection, which is the last thing i would like to see a commissioner of human rights engaging with the ordinary people. marginalize people is the main issue for me when you're doing a lot know of monitoring them, protecting these days though on to you're not, you're not protecting the people in turkey. for instance, last year, nearly $26000.00 people were in jail awaiting trial on terrorism charges that

continue to be widely misused and used in fact to restrict free expression of association. they're not protected. i don't know. i mean, they, you know, you're wrong here. you know, protection means much more than just, you know, saying okay, i'm just going with this more than i'm going to protect all those people know. people in turkey do feel protected by my office and me personally, they see my office as always where they can complain and seek protection. and this happened on, on many occasions i was given access, as i already stated, to present to see an estimate please release. now, and i do try to engage in the government, the government on the issue of human rights defenders and journalists numerous cases before the court. but it's not an easy task. but at the same time,

it is honorable and it gives me even more energy to, to engage, to try to help people helping one individual can also change a lot in any country. but you righty stated the previously that at the moment we do not believe in a good time for human rights. human rights and collected, pushed under the carpet by many governments. ultra conservative groups are targeting civil society and human rights defenders. and this is a said why are facing this situation? as i already said, it's a question for this color. nevertheless, you need to continue working. well, it's also a question. you can't just blame the governments, can you? what about the people who put them there? what happens when free elections empower politicians who then take away their

rights? what then? what then? well, the question is also the elections over 3 unfair? it's not the case all the time. you have many reports from credible international organizations, including parliamentary assembly of the council of europe stating that certain election a certain date. but everything but not free and fair. so you end up with the governments, want to stay forever neglect human rights. and this is something we should not hello, i have a mandate for 47 members of the council of europe and differences are huge, but no date is immune to violations of human rights. and documenting this and pointing out and working together with people can bring results not overnight, but the fact that the fact is the autocrat. so winning on day when you look back

through the centuries, it's repression. that's the enduring constant, not democracy. and now that repression is back with a vengeance, and we have to face that fact and we yes that's, that's true. but i would not say that the article be winning. there are examples. and we should listen to different voices in the society, but be, should not use those voices that are reading like fake news targeting human rights defenders generally civil society in order to to win roles. he should not use this as a excuse for not doing enough, but what i think is also important is that all international innovation should use the situation now and try to push for changes by putting human rights into the guy. and i understand that, but very briefly,

if you keep sounding the alarm bell and nothing improves and it hasn't been improving as we pointed out over the last 15 years, it's been a steady decline. the danger is that people are going to stop listening on fe. there was, i was just that they declined, but i disagree that there was no progress and there were no issues related to right . that's improved in many members states. if you look at the situation down to b t i t, when it comes to women's rights, i mean we are still fighting. the struggle is present, but is the tradition change for better? if you look at rama communities in many days, they were examples of, of success and moving forward. so it's not just, you know, completely, you know, really great situation that we need to just accepted and say ok, the fails. no,

we did. not. all right, activists, i'm afraid we're out of time. thanks very much for being with us on company. so thank you. thank you. thank you very much. the news. the news, the news

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