specially here in germany to investigate, to clarify things by itself, and rejecting and external investigation like we had this by royal commissions, in australia, as an example. and this has come to under that added. because we have more than one year now the discussion in cologne. and the cardinal there is defending himself and his actions with one and another. and another cutting out a book, a study by lawyers he hired to defend himself. and this is not the way how this crisis can be clarified and investigated. and it should be investigated from outside, but the studies were not internal and it was to study to study is actually clear to me of personal guilt, at least. yeah. but the lawyers look and they create,

i paid them, he paid them and they criticized us like the bishop of hamburg and other up syria, bishops in cologne. but not because, you know, loki, who paid for the studies pay for me personally. let's go somewhere else with attention to the discussion. there is like, let's go now from germany to canada, where there is greece and outrage this after the remains of over $200.00 young boys and girls were discovered in the grounds of a former catholic run residential school for indigenous children in british columbia. the catholic residential school in kamloops british columbia was one of the largest of its kind and was run until 978. it is not yet known how the children died there. the boarding schools indigenous children were torn from their families in order to christianized me, according to investigations,

violence and sexual abuse by stop was commonplace. as a dad, i can't imagine what it would feel like my kids taken away from me. and as prime minister, i am appalled by the shameful policy that stole indigenous children from their communities was demanding an apology from the catholic church, but none has been issued to date, municipally, this weekend, together with the catholic church of canada. and it's pretty me, i would like to express my sympathy to the people in canada that all my who are traumatized by the shocking years will continue to teach. why does the catholic church find it so difficult to bear responsibility? on a distressing story, a very, very distressing store in this difficult question. a suggestive question is,

why does the church find it so difficult to bear responsibility? i don't think that you can talk about the church in terms of responsibility because it's people who fail and especially in this case i think it's a great just how this case is already. even though we have little facts is already instrumentalist, those victims, already instrumentalist, to make points against the church. even though it was the canadian state to actually implemented those racial races policy off. taking children from the families not to christianize them to, to assimilate them to the white population. and so to ask an apology. well, 1st you should ask an apology of the state who implemented those racist policies. and then of course, the church has to wonder which, how,

how could she let herself be instrumental, lived in such a way to help those politics explicitly against so many attempts to, to actually value indigenous culture. what the devil with did, for example, they did so much for indigenous people into 2 states that cultures. so how could the church be so compromised with politics? and i think this is an interesting question. it is all about politics to this is not, this is not exclusively about the church as a spiritual organization. this is about the church as a, as an an organization that wheels a great deal of power. i think returning to the debt point. building used by cardinal mike. i think the church as the concrete structure of power, of organization and of doctrine. we should talk also about the doctrine of the

church. this historic combination has come to an debt and, and i think it has to be changed. it has to died, maybe to, to live on. it has no future and the way it worked in the past. and i think this is the moment we are living. now, how does, how does the doctrine come in there? i mean, doctrine clearly says that the priest is someone who's service flock. so this is what the doctrine says. change. yeah, i mentioned that i was abused because i was the catholic and we have investigated in australia also in germany and in the royal commissions that there is a combination between sexual moral morality power. the whole thing of the sacrament of reconciliation,

the understanding of sinful behavior, all this doctrine, this is not a compilation of, of this belief. and the way how the church acts and the priest acted. and this leads to this catastrophe. so you can change only the organization and you also have to talk about the law. so the check was in the next. let's print them. i think because this week when i was reading up on the story, that was one sentence that kept coming back to me that i found quite remarkable. and it was the observation that in germany, the word god is disappearing. it's a contentious statement. it's a contentious assertion, but it appears possibly to be true, and i think that's a significant backdrop for the discussion we're having here. what do you say for the marks anyway, what i don't degree because even in berlin,

which is considered as a face to face pick city, i discover the presence of god in the hidden way everywhere. so because with my eyes of faith, i can see the presence. but what is changing and i think that's really important through through the power of the church is going down. the church in the past has had the structure and influence a power which is now lost and we have to accept it and, but it's positive because in this way we can focus more on the essence of faith. and it's not about structure. it's not about money thought about power and to go to and considering the canadian case. i also think that's something linked to politics the past. but i think the church should be the 1st one to the knowledge that failures. and we should be the champions of acknowledging that we

have something done something wrong, agreed there, but i need to agree with both of you because what you are painting the image of the church is the church you wish to have. i talk about the church. i experienced and still survivors all over the world and i know the saliva movement and canada. well, because we have to be to get, we have been together in room 2019, was cutting on the market by the way the church is still fighting against the survivors when they ask for the truth. when they ask for money when they ask for help. so the power and the money is still there and it's used against the bibles, not only in germany, but all over the world, africa, people in poland and italy and spain. so i understand, and i highly respect the vision of the different church for the future,

but it's not actually what the experiences are right now. i think you, you say you respect this vision, but actually you are saying that it is a vision, but maybe it is just the church as we experience it. and i don't think that you can literally, it's our experience against yours. i think this is not the way we should do it because we are in this church together, those survivors who remained in the church in the church together. and i think it's very important not to try to initiate one perspective against the other. they are both valuable perspectives and they are true for themselves because everyone experiences what he experiences you can say, well, i experienced, but what you experience is not your experience. the vision was theory in tech, and this story for fact, for example, that church lose this power. this is a fact, it's not a vision. and i also agree that it's

a good thing because then we can concentrate on the gospel. and i think that actually what you are demanding is going to develop out from this loss of power. we're running out of time, i'd like to hear your vision in 30 seconds for the church of the future. i believe in a church of the poor for the poor, a church that tries to do god's will in all things we're running out to trying to say we're gonna have to leave it there. but that's a good vision for the future. thanks for the vision to fit in saint peter's square with us alive, us from all over the world and the church and the pope and the bishop listening to us. great speaking to i'm so sorry that we are not so i agree totally. i would be really happy, wonderful stuff. we've been talking about the future. the catholic church is a controversial juncture and it's history. thanks very much for being with us there on to the point. if you've enjoyed the show come by next time by, by just the

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the was ah, this is dw news coming to live from berlin. g southern leaders pledge, 1000000000 cobit 900 vaccine, those poor poor countries. there are some in cornwall, england bill discuss a plan to vaccinate the world by the end of 2022, u. k prime minister boris johnson and us present to 5 and unveiled the 1st stage of the plan. also on the program footballs. european championships are set for kickoff .