get into a venture. just don't lose your grip. the treasure map for modern globe. trotter's, governor, some of us are wicker breaking and also in book form. me. this is of course, most unfortunate. tragic is that the government's plan to punish the victims you want to highlight the negative stuff even when there is no evidence the government bands twitter. can you explain that most major as a bit of a democratic system and my director has been making headlines for all the wrong reasons. lately, kidnappings and violence are on the rise is large areas of the country. i made talk of a spiraling security crisis and citizens cope with unemployment and inflation. presidents

with hari is getting attention for blocking twitter and foreign parents violent cracks on protesters ca call for n for police violence. my guess this week from berlin is nigerian ambassador usa to gar. how does he explain the track record of this government as he tries to attract is badly needed investment to africa, the largest economy, the news and that's it, or to go welcome to conflict zone. thank you for having me. nigeria is said to be facing a spiraling security crisis, terrorism, kidnappings, inter communal violence dramatically on the rise and recent month as president to hurry, lost control. certainly not. he has not lost control. he has done a lot in terms of security when he came into office in 2016 vocal her in the north east was holding about 18 local government areas to day. it

doesn't hold a single local government area. however, does not mean that the violence being and least why a walk around, for instance, has ended. so it hasn't continued to move and strike and, and run away. it's a very difficult terrain. so it's not surprising that it is stretched out, as indeed such conflicts stretched out in other countries. but mr. ambassador, when, when you look at the sheer numbers though, the situation does not appear to be improving. in fact, in the 1st 3 months of this past year, it's been reported more than $2800.00 violent killings around the country in the media. and there's also of course, the repeated kidnappings of school children. i mean, this is what really has been making international headlines in may, for example, more than 130 school kids, some as young as 7 years old, were kidnapped in broad daylight in niger state. what do you tell those parents?

this is of course, most unfortunate. it's tragic. it's not what we're hoping for. government is doing its best to bring this to an end. it's not been easy because of the decades of male lives in nigeria, that this administration is looking to correct. and the negative media report sometimes also few these acts of violence, the kidnapping, the terrorism. so it's a media fault. it's the media's fault that there's an estimated $700.00 students kidnapped for ransom since december in your country. that's not what i'm saying. certainly not. it's not the media's fault, but it has for the few of some of the violence as we've seen of recent. you have to bear in mind that nigeria is the most populous country in africa. it's a nation of 200000000 people. so certainly there would be

absolute violence, there would be all sorts of issues, particularly since we have endured years of of under development, which this administration is looking to reverse. you mentioned that the government is taking action. i want to look at some of that action because the senate is considering making it illegal to pay ransom to kidnappers. is that the government's plan to punish the victims the parents in the face of the government on inability to provide security for their children? what is he? nigeria practice is a democratic system of government. you have the principle of separation of power. you have an executive legislative, an independent judiciary, a bi camera legislature. so it's not every single action that is either

that should be attributed to either the president or the executive. benoit has several moving parts. it has several clogs in the democratic wheel. but mister ambassador, do you think that this is a useful law? does the president think that this is a useful law? do you think the parents, who fear for the life of the child could really be prevented from paying ransom by law, from governments that is not capable of protecting the children in the 1st place? is this useful? we practice is a deliberative democracy where there's discourse and within that framework of discourse, we eventually come up with a position. this is how democracy works. and this is what is happening in nigeria, which is the most populous country in africa. it's a country of 200000000 people, so you cannot just take decisions by see at. so you're not, you're not taking a position on that, that's what i'm hearing from you. let's look at the overall since i'm allowing the

process to, i'm allowing the process to to take its course. okay. let's look at the overall situation. a lot of these kidnappings and violence, they're happening in the north. of course, the military there. let's look at their strategy, their regrouping troops into super paps or, or garrison towns where they wait to repel the attacks rather than go on the offensive against the militants militants, for example, like, like, boca rom in their hide out. can you explain that what these perhaps some of the techniques and the strategies employed in a symmetric warfare which takes place in different parts of the world? niger is not unique when it comes to that. you have to bear in mind that you often take him on an invisible enemy that's continuously on the move. i'm sure. where in germany here, i'm sure the, by the winehoff was taken on, you know, using similar strategies or the i a, or, you know,

several other insurgent groups and tories groups that government have had to take on in the past. so why should niger be unique? you know, but the point mister ambassador is that we are looking at the situation specifically in nigeria and in nigeria. do you admit that it has left a significant portion of the population quite exposed to this particular strategy? i mean, you have the u. n, for example, saying that it's making it difficult to get internally displaced, people aid. you have leading security organizations saying that these vocal harass factions that these affiliated, you know, and similar groups are taking advantage of the space can created by the super cap military strategy. and they're moving around more freely. they're building support, they're building their networks. you have to bear in mind that this is the conflict that is taking place in a very difficult terrain. as i said earlier, within a very complex cross border area where 4 african countries meet,

where they're hundreds of islands due to the receding leg. chad. so you know, it's not that straightforward. you can also, if you want, focus on the reset the, the, the return of, of individuals that have been living in internally displaced camps to, to towns and villages. that is all equally happening. so it's, you know, while, while some might be moving to internally displaced camps, others are moving back home. so it's a complex thing and it's very dynamic and it's for ever changing the state of your military capacity is also in question. the senate has confirmed that massive recruitment procurement of equipment is needed for the security forces. resources are said to be stretched thin. so why has the government failed to even secure the best equipment for the military? i mean that the pledges from to hardy to crush these armed groups,

aren't they just empty words? if you don't have the resources, we haven't been able to, as much as we want, because many of the manufacturing countries would not sell it to us. you know, we've had to contend with certain ag, such as the lizzie act and, and several others in countries and the negative propaganda sometimes that is unfairly used to label the niger in military as committing abuses and what have you and that is highlighted instead of the positive acts that should be associated with them. so again, it's the fault of others so. so just tell me then because i'd like to move on to another or what i'm saying. and that's what i'm saying. well, let me, mr. back it, are you saying it's very p on security? so perhaps you can clarify for us, you know, what the priority is in the country. the priority is to address most of these

issues holistically and to tackle the root cause instead of the symptoms. this is what the nigerian government is trying to do. so some of the root causes of violence of insecurity happen to be poverty, a lack of effective governors at the local government level. and this is what the nigerian government is trying to tackle. we have a social investment program, you could talk about it, it's a, it's a noble cause you could focus on something like that. certainly have to make the choice whether to buy, to spend more on on weapons or whether to spend on solving the issue of parts. and we're going to learn about weapons. many often, most often, we're not sold the weapons that we need. and mr. ambassador, we're going to talk about the economy. i assure you, in our conversation. so we will be returning to that. but i just like to ask you 1st about the state of human rights in the country because, you know,

it's not just a tax in the north kidnapping. you have, you know, many hotspots all over the country. and in response to some attacks blamed on separatists, for example, in the south east, the military has launched operation restore peace to heart set on twitter. we have given the police and the military, the power to be ruthless, the power to be ruthless. what does that mean? just be what every country. every government believes that we're living in a way that is primarily defined by nation states, sovereign nation states and the silver nation states are meant to have the monopoly of violence. so that non state actors will not unravel such countries and unleash may him and death and murder and much such and such territories. this is what every country does. but i think the concern among, among many is that there are these previously documented evidences of mass,

extrajudicial killings, by securities in this region in particular. so the question is, when to hardy says roofless. is that what he means? extrajudicial killings, it's happened before. that's certainly not what he means because he has used the same phrase with regard to the violence way by bandits and by, by terry, by terrorist activities in north eastern nigeria in northwest and nigeria. it applies to the whole country. wherever you have non state actors, you see there's no states, if a country, if, if groups or individuals or power was that do not subject themselves to the jurisdiction of a nation state, allowed to dictate the cause of political life

in nobody that that country sees its break this but that's what we're talking about . and during that older we're talking about the approach of the military in terms of, you know, handling this, the session is movement. and these, these particular groups that you are targeting mc says you have a reckless and a trigger, happy approach to crowd control. and, and it's not only when it comes to this particular area. in fact, i'd like to ask you about another incident. there were reports of at least 12 civilians killed when forces shot at police at people. protesters excuse me. at leki toll plaza in laos, back in october. is this the strategy that your forces use to help calm protests, peaceful protests in the country shooting at peaceful civilians with live ammunition . ok, so unfortunately this report that i know you've done your homework. what unfortunately, this report happens to be the very same report that was exposed to

b and to by none other than the state department of the united states. they had their own investigation and said the report was too well. i have not seen that before, but i have heard from where killed, sir. i have not seen that report, but i have heard from, from the un high commissioner for human rights, michelle bachelor, and she has a position of authority. as you know, she says quote, there is little doubt that this was a case of excessive use of force, resulting in unlawful killings with live ammunition by nigerian armed forces. this did department report is easy to access. busy you can google it online, it's that it's, it contends that that report that you're referring to is inaccurate. and to date, that has not been any substantial proof just to show it to show otherwise. well, you know, your prove that, let them then let me,

let me follow terry. it's easy to terry, please, and decide you want to highlight the negative stuff, even when there is no evidence and you don't, you cannot use, you know, reports that i turned out. bye. bye bye bye bye, the you know, the united nation make? no, this is our thing in your country. they said in the incident witnesses that c c t, v. cameras and lights were switched off shortly before soldiers opened fire on peaceful protesters. the un says this indicates a disturbing level of premeditation. your government has apparently set a panels of inquiry to look into. there's to look into other incidence by you know, a group of your security forces which right group say routinely practice torture. i just like to ask you, you know, how, how can the public trust that they will. but you will really get to the bottom of

what happened when it seems as if you don't want to really look at it, the nigerian, the nigerian public, the overwhelming majority of the niger and public truck that the government, the nigerian government will get to the bottom of it, as it always does, but sadly, due to lobbyist due to fake and yours due to fake websites due to the equity was created on social media where new jersey reactions follow such incidents that the substantial segment or section of the western media and such as countries get the wrong, mr. mr. i and they allow this, subsist on it. mr. or i think we can both agree though that there were protesters who were there and what they were there for was to protest against police brutality, especially from the elite unit called sars. which rights i think would be really

broad. georgia response, torture, ill treatment, extra judicial killings. let me ask you, why were there no charges brought against members of this unit? earlier? these abuses are well documented itself was disbanded, the unit itself was be disbanded, but the evidence of torture. conrade date is not for you. you can't cherry pick what to highlight. sorry, excuse me. you can pick what to highlight when it comes to digest. yeah, you are not in general, or perhaps you are not aware that when this very same unit size was created in response to drugs in les was in the ninety's that this course of action was celebrated. so now it's our lives, it's use and when there were protests and complaints and petitions,

president how much harry is funded. it, he brought it to an end it with then he created a unit swat in the same breath to replace it. so the question is, if you haven't addressed, if you haven't brought charges in the past, who can really trust that this new unit will be any different? and as you know, that is that is the question that a lot of people in your country in fact are asking because there's still judicial panels of inquiry that are taking place looking into these allegations of abuse. we're not saying we have a perfect police force just as is the case in most countries or in every country, i should say, you would have bad eggs that would do things that are not sanctioned by the government, but it does not. it does not mean that the only course of action is to highlight the negative, and mr. ambassador will claiborne may already be. nigeria,

nigeria operates a democratic system of government. like i said. so what about some offers all the rule of law we uphold. so let's talk about the model. earlier this month, the government band, twitter. can you explain that move? i can explain it because the simple explanation is that niger, as i said, operates a democratic system of government. we've had 6 successive elections every 4 years and made since 1999. 1 of the, the, the important the most, one of the most important norms of, of democracy is freedom of speech which nigeria of holes, which nigeria celebrates which europe texts. but you cannot use, you cannot allow certain elements to use those democratic, mr. ambassador, i want to add, why? so it wasn't it because the platform took down president to harvest tweets for

violating its abuse for me, their policy. and no that's, that's not the reason. the reason why it was shut down. it was because twitter has been airing, pictures, videos, and the vituperation of, of people that i look into. and robert nigeria, which, well, i know many people are looking at the situation and they are, is tweet what's in that in the burning later. what are what band is this, the proportionate response? and now we have the attorney general ordering the immediate prosecution of offenders of the federal government ban on twitter. so it's twitter users. now that your government is going to prize, i said your own citizens. that's why, as i said earlier, as i said earlier, sadly, regret regret to be this cherry picking approach creates the wrong narrative. you go back to 2019,

you will see that for the mama to body has been consistent about the adverse effect of social media when it chooses not to be responsible. they are real life the real world. but the question is whether banding proportionate robots builder and balancing? and right now, the rank one, china and north korea, iran on issuing a ban on twitter. g. do you feel comfortable in the company? can i just make the point i was trying to make? if you go back to 2019 president motor body address the word, the united nations general assembly. he spoke about the christ church attacks and the, the negative effect of live streaming of such violent acts and, and encouraging terrorist groups and, and, and, and violent groups to,

to have that space within social media which spreads others on into actual violence. this is no less different than that. so what, why do you has been consistent when it comes to that? but you are, you are forgetting what he, what you said in 2019. and just looking at his reaction was social media as a week after a very prominent politician was killed in south eastern nigeria. a few days after the i called a few days after i pub had burnt. electro commissions offices in the same region. mister ambassador, there were no reaction please. let's look at the international reaction because canada, the e. u, the u. k, the u. s. they have all condemned this twitter band. i mean the, the u. s. s that has no place in a democracy. don't you need foreign investments to help build your economy we need

for an investment. we also need for those countries to be mindful of the fact that i prob and such groups have been engaging lobby firms like mike you, republic affairs, for instance, that it's paying $85000.00 a day to churn out, such negative stuff to, to go into full court press on us senators and, and prominent people, prominent politicians so that they would create this negative narrative about nigeria and which is far from the truth. and those were on ground. know that. and the forest of the british high commissioner in the year is aware of that, because now she's on the receiving end. she's being threatened by the same i pulled by number economy the lead of april. and mister ambassador, i'd like to ask you because i mean, what is clear is that the economic situation in the country is not good. unemployment has more than quadrupled since to hurry took office. more than half of

young people can't find jobs. i mean that's, that's more than half of your population that is under the age of $24.00. and, and furthermore, nearly half of adult say that they plan to move to another country within the next 5 years. half of the adults want to leave the country within the next 5 years. with whom do you plan on building the future of your country? with nigerians, as we've always done, we have an economic downturn just like other countries in the world. it's important to remember that we're living through a global pandemic. nigeria, unfortunately has dependent depended overwhelmingly on foreign exchange coming from crude oil sales. this current government is looking to diversify niger risk at risk. the last general economics with figures like this, do you risk a last generation?

no, we don't. which is why we're, we're, we've put our heads down and we're diversifying nigeria economy. if you look at the plans that we have in place, the national economic plans that we have in place that diversifying look at what is happening, look at the rights revolution going on in niger, i look at the foot, eliza blending that is going on in nigeria, look, as i said earlier, social investment program, look at the 2nd major bridge, look at the real projects, look at the gas pipeline projects. look at what siemens is doing with regards to electricity. these are the things that you should look you'd be looking at. look at also the media and entertainment sector. nigeria is one of the fastest growing when it comes to that. these are the sort of things you should be concentrating on . inflammation and digital technology ambassador to that we have to leave it there

. thank you so much for joining us on conflicts on been a pleasure. thank you for the the, the the, the, the, the the

the, the, the the the ah, the used car back most radio drama. continues stevens, a story, focus on have speech, cholera, prevention and sustainable charcoal production. all of those are available online. and of course you can share and discuss on e w,

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the news . this is the w news. why? from berlin? after 3 hours of face to face talks, the u. s. and russian presidents agree to disagree and then stop turbines and why did we approach and say there longer, we did some, it was positive that they pledged to work together. but the tensions and the divisions remained also coming up tonight, the floating massive swan, it's threatening marine lightens. the fishing industry of the coast of turkey. pretty say the government's clean up. efforts have come too late. and germany's match against france at the european.