the hi police, my follow we are here is actually on fire. home mines in the as covert cases spiral upward and new warnings resound. people in many parts of the world find themselves wondering if the summer respite we'd hoped for could come to an abrupt end. all thanks to a new and especially adaptable strain 1st identified in india. it's known as the delta variant and is significantly more contagious than previously thought. after completely overwhelming india's health care system and causing mass suffering and death, the very end to spread to more than 80 countries. vaccines should stop it from

spreading, but it's a race against time. and with many countries already returning to normal, the re imposing rules could be difficult. corona mutations, how deadly is delta the news? welcome to to the point. it's a pleasure to welcome our guests to p. s. court is an a p d. me just from the charity in berlin and he says the best way to counter the delta variant, intensify the vaccination campaign, and engage in more targeted surveillance rather than panic mongering. and it's a pleasure to welcome benjamin over his group, or he is a dw colleague from chili. and she believes the worrying developments in chile should be a warning sign for those who pledge to reopen fast as vaccination campaigns gather . and we're very glad to have back on the program and kicked a look pudge. yeah,

she is. a dw corresponded based in delhi and she is convinced we need to rely on scientific expertise along with rigorous safety measures. if we want to present surprise of more dangerous variance. so let me begin by asking you, dr. ker 2, you know, we've got sunny days here in berlin. we've got bomb the evenings, plummeting infection rates, things have been looking pretty good. and now i find myself thinking, are we going back to where we were at the end of last year? are we really seeing a dramatic risk of another spike? i know you say we shouldn't be doing panic mongering, but how dangerous is it? well, 1st of all, we should enjoy right now, just to asian, and this is that the numbers are going down. so the infection rate is really on a, on a really, wouldn't the record low,

but it's really reassuring yes. and then the situation is not over as a risk that we see a potential increase in the fall again, however, we have to look in more detail. so p c r, test positive doesn't mean there's a consequence, doesn't mean that if i have a positive test result, i can spread or give the virus to someone else. we need other informations really tell that also you may get smiled symptoms if you've actually made it, but may not get severe disease. so we have to look a little bit more careful. while than saying just p c r test positive, which will go up. very likely in the fall. so it depends on the setting on the region of the country. the number of people execute that, whether this is a true risk or not, we should be respectful. we should be on the alerts to really watch the situation closely. but to really now i think what may have happened or what we will happen in the fall. i think it's a little bit too early to, to be alarmed in the way that we are having panic. let me go to k to have because you said in your statement that we need to rely on scientific expertise. and in

fact, india is working to sequence thousands of samples at the moment. so what do we know so far about why the delta variant is so dangerous and whether it or new mutations like delta plus could elude existing vaccines. what india has done is for this game as compared to what happened in the last week in april and me do you have classified the delta plot really into the concern. so that means there is evidence going on and the tracking of, you know, these cases, but what in just to lex is a lot of research into why the delta, very, and is leading to so many someone's hospitalized vision. and the research is not happening because the focus has now completely shifted from listening to exports, to focusing more on, you know, administrative stuff like the oxygen, you know,

imposing, locked down because, you know, you cannot afford to have another, you know, leave. so that's been the issue is that they're there and but what me to understand that the, the very and when it will expand its, you know, will reach more people more vulnerable populations because in get back to me should be like really low. thank you very much. and we're going to come back to that in just a moment. so one place where the vaccination rate has been very high. if your country benjamin chill a, in fact the more than 78 percent of the population has now been vaccinated. 162 percent twice and yet a new wave of infection is washing over chilly. why? what are the scientists they are saying? the scientists are saying that they warrant the politicians or took the decisions on one side will have chilly with an incredible vaccine campaigned you just mentioned the numbers when we have to live with, for example, israel countries who have had a very successful and very quick vaccine rollover,

but on the other side, is you politicians taking decisions like in lifting mobility, giving people the chance to move, go from one place to another, even if they had both vaccines having this dynamic current teams that mean that if you're living in the city in one place you can move freely and in the other ones you have to be isolated at home. and of course, if there's a lot of mobility, even if you have a lot of people, a lot of the high percentage of the population that have been vaccinated, they will not be efficient. and then you will have high numbers, like the ones that we're seeing now, and chill is entering winter now. so the numbers are expected to continue increasing, strengthening, and getting the hospital salt in a really difficult situation that they don't have capacities. and many of this intensive care units anymore. thank you very much. let me ask you, toby, us court. what lessons can we learn from it? surely i think many of us in, in fact in your opening statement, you also talk about the need to intensify the vaccination campaign. and i think many of us thought that if we did that and it has intensified here in germany now,

for example, that the likelihood of dangerous new mutations would fall in apparently that's not the case in chile, i don't think the likelihood is a very develops falling but the likelihood the people get sick or spread the virus so, so that's something different. so the development of area and will continue on the global level for sure. as many people get infected and there's more people get infected, there will be a very and in that specific setting, which then is superior to other variance. which does not mean that we take that virus and put it in another setting that it will act in the same way. so we have to really carefully look at the data, collect the right data, carefully see how the dynamic changes in terms of number of people vaccinated number of people getting sick, number of people testing positive on what it means for their respective setting. so it's important to not just look at one number. we have to look the totality of the

dynamic situation before we make decisions. but we have to be careful and honored to really not say ok. things are over and communicate that know things are not over, fix can come back, but the question is how? so, from what i'm hearing, we have to remain vigilant, even if we get close to that holy grail of her community. yes, but her community is not a specific number, it's dynamic depending on the likelihood that the virus breaths this will affect to the to cut off of the so called heard him unity. so we have to be on alert. but without being panicking is specifically in germany. on the global level, again, many countries never had the chance to get one person vaccinated because i don't have any of the scenes available so far. we come back to that later, i believe. so it's really important to understand the situation and to have a surveillance system that actually works and we're looking at the right numbers. one other very quick follow up question. many people in chile were vaccinated with the chinese vaccine with sign of fun. does the fact that infection rates are rising reflect defects in that vaccine?

no, i think even if you've executed with any vaccine, you can test positive. the question is, what does it mean? are you really getting sick? and i'm not familiar with the numbers in, in she lives. so it's not just looking at testing positive because that likelihood exist even after beyond tag or madonna or seneca. so is so i don't think it's a question of quality of the vaccine that has been given out and chilling benjamin . do you want to weigh in on that point? no, i agree. told me, and i think what's important is not just the vaccination, but the crisis communication to say not going to panic and the delta vary in this coming. i mean, authorities until state hasn't reached the country. yep. that's let's see. only a matter of time, right? but it's to say, the endemic is not over, the numbers are rising, and we cannot just rely on the vaccines to say, if we vaccinate amount of people in the country that they, the cases will go down because it's not the case. then let's talk

a little bit more about precautions and, and also take another look at travel because of course we are now moving into summer. and many people have been hoping to have a semblance at least of the cation so, and keep in india, the religious festival come baylor is often blamed for having been a super spreader in the late winter, early spring, to what extent was travel implicated in that terrible search that we did see in india and have people changed their attitudes in regard to travel i would say in terms of traveling in the state, there has been a good option. people are actually more than aware of a scared, especially with the not in the writing, the more of this. but what we need to understand is that when public transport it's already started opening up in plain big cities like being the, the being a little bit like a cute so, you know, last month. so we have the public transport opening up. there is

a taken public transport and in a country which over a 1000000000 people, it's very difficult to socially distance. so it's very necessary for a government. i think that, you know, you'll have to maintain social distance and you have to wear mosque, you know, you have to get back from needed. and i think the, the issue that's happening right now is that people are becoming very confident that they've got the 1st job. so they're probably, you know, beef but, but that's not, that's not truly, you know. so you have, we have to be very careful in terms of the city in the state transport. thank you very much. and in fact, the benjamin i've seen reports that into a apparently during the holidays between december and february, there was quite a bit of travel by people between their 1st and their 2nd vaccine. when apparently they did not have full resistance yet. so travel implicated there as well. i gather . yeah, there was even a holiday permit where you could go to the beach and visit families as well. so

it's also that's the contradiction on one side saying you have to take care. but on the other side, it's possible to get this permit, and people who have now the to vaccines are able even to move. so it's mobility pass and the scientific world says, well, we don't need now is to increase mobility. so that's, of course, is also something that should be discussed about not just struggling in the country, but also trying to get out of the country. in fact, when it comes to mobility, the british government has also been banned for not for been criticized for not banding travel from india as early as needed. and we need only look at the hey, now to see how infectious delta is the new variant is now almost exclusively responsible for a surging infection rate. that prompted authorities to postpone the long promised lifting of lockdown restrictions. and it's causing worry elsewhere as well. great britain responded to the delta cove. it variant with a massive vaccination campaign,

even though the country has the highest vaccination rate in europe, the delta variant is spreading throughout the country like wildfire. the outbreak started in scott much before spreading all over britain london was a hotspot lockdown. reopening in england had been delayed. portugal had turned to more drastic measures. residents of the capital, lisbon are prohibited from leaving the city on weekends. the police even patrol the exit ramps in april the country had the lowest inspection rate in europe. the delta variants may have come in by a britain. british tourist and portugal weren't required to quarantine, like in other european countries. and these images are from europe, full beer garden impact bars, as well as full stadium. so the euro 2020 championship in europe, heading into the next wave without a plan that occurred. what's your answer to that?

last question is the situation in the u. k. in portugal, a wakeup call for all of europe, should we be doing things differently? if you believe depend damage over it? yes, there should be a wake up call that that things can, can change quickly. it is and remains it, and that makes it a wage. and we have to be careful in traveling. the virus itself doesn't travel in the host, humans, or animals in this case humans. so if humans travel, we can test concurrently. we know this and we have to implement this will be extremely careful to not running into the next way. nonetheless, in your opening statement, you didn't advocate a new blanket locked down. you said we need targeted surveillance. in fact, at the height of the 2nd and 3rd wave, it became very difficult for authorities to track infection change. there were simply too many cases has that change. now that infection rate fear, at least in germany, are falling right now. there should be possible. again, we should try everything to maintain that level that we can trace and track and

then really know what's happening. but also we need information about how likely it is that a person can spread the virus. so there's another valid disability for example, that we need to take into account that, that person travel, what profession has that person so that we really understand the situation rather than saying everyone locked on because i think that's not a good solution that we have learned better over the last month, hopefully. thank you very much. and let me ask benjamin, because you of course, are based here in germany. and i know that this new lockdown in lisbon and the postponement of lifting of measures in britain. they do have a lot of people here worried on the other hand, people are just getting used to this new normal thing seen so. so good and relaxed . you think that it's going to be very hard for people here to accept if new restrictions do. in fact, have to be put into place. i think it will be difficult if i compare the situation germany with the situation in chile with this back and forth. so we have 2 current teen and the situation is getting better then you can move. and again,

you have to stay at home. so that's what's important to have this crisis communication and go in one way and say, you know, situation will get worse. probably in the next month. the cases will go up. so it's important to take care now, and there are several tools that we have will exceeds the only one tool, but you have to have tracing of people. well they traveling now during the euro cop, germany will phase england in wembley, of course. and then you have put up has seen pictures of a full stadium, 100 percent capacity. and then of course it's important to see which travel is essential and which travel could also lead to more cases when people start moving around and restrictions are lifted. also, when it comes to constant traveling and quarantine in the country where you, where you're going to, dr. kerr, when you see those pictures, the full football stadiums. when you hear that london is still planning to host a european championship final in wembley stadium, with 60000 fans. do you think we've all got our heads in the sand?

well, i hope there a test before and after the game, everyone who is around and stayed steady more in the stadium. so obviously that's a quite risky situation that people are putting themselves in. and, and i hope that everyone understands that have been exposed, potentially. and that they should be tested or placed themselves current in the, in specifically if they have any symptoms suggestive of a flu like symptoms or like corona's symptoms of many of us should know. now, let me ask and cater because in fact, infection rates in india now are falling, although as you pointed out at the beginning of the show, india has vaccinated only a tiny proportion of its population so far. so what is what is accountable for accountants for that fall in infection rates? and are you seeing signs in india of restriction fatigue?

so this last question. so obviously like every pandemic, and if you leave, there's like a peak and then there's a fall. so that's what happened in india, there is a fall now, but we are seeing cases steady increasing of the delta v and get aligned. russia are great examples. what will go wrong in the future if you know the governments, you know, don't back up. i think in terms of vaccination, what's happening is that we had the supply crunch at the beginning, you know, in march, april me. and that the sort of results with like the name them or the, the prime minister announcing that people decentralized the distribution, no vaccines. now the problem is that in a lot of the people, even though they're getting the 1st job, they're unable to get the 2nd one because business is just not apply. so now things of east, which would make with the north of act faxing, the supposed to come their school acts in india's indigenous vaccine, that's also there. but what i feel is the biggest issue right now is the kind of

narrative that goes on the vaccine. and it's obviously to be, could be more people feel that, you know, they have been locked up for too long and you know, we need to stop talking about the crew. and then we need to start looking at the right side of life, which is a great way to ping, but it's not something that you can implement on the ground. if you like, suddenly just go out and you know, live your life normally get. and now the problem is that a lot of the offices are opening up. so people are, you know, going back to work. so now that people are going back to work, there's also noted going around that can get the poor country ignored legally backward. we cannot afford to sit at home, we have to learn something. so these kind of narratives are sort of like a, you know, supporting the eggs, the fatigue of the lockdown. thank you very much and i'll just say to our viewers that we're sorry that that image of kita occasionally is frozen, but i think we can all still hear her well. so that is great. let us come now to

a deeper look at the vaccination challenge and in the race against time between variance like delta and vaccines. poor countries suffer a dramatic disadvantage despite the mantra that no one is safe until everyone is safe. the reality is that covert 19 dramatically magnifies global inequality on health. new daily streets are alive again, new infections and deaths are decreasing, but less than 20 percent of indian residents have received one vaccination. nevertheless, many of them are still convinced that they've learned from the panoramic i don't think people have short ma'am, the lard, the thing gorge recalls on the yard. it was of any time for everyone, bard, the thing that people and go mandated a lot. and i think it's fine in brazil, on the other hand, the situation is worsening. the country now has more than 500000 confirmed corona,

brazilian president bolton aro, downplayed the dangers of the pandemic for too long. infections arising in sheila, as well, even though the government has tried to stop, the virus was spreading with locked downs and vaccination campaigns. even worse and new variant has been discovered in latin american countries. its dangers have not yet been analyzed was do we have to learn to live with the virus? and it variance benjamin chilly is now talking about giving a 3rd booster shot starting early this fall. so quick to questions to you. first of all, the adequacy of the amounts of vaccine you do have in chile. and secondly, do you think that the battle against coven could wind up being decided not here in europe or the us, but in the global south? totally, i mean, if we look at the vaccine rates of africa, for example, in america, which is really that is an exception. if you're compared to countries,

we have the co books program. we have the 7 countries pledging to donate more vaccines, but that's definitely not enough. and when you look at the situation, we just saw it in brazil. what's happening in, believe you, what happened in ecuador, so in all of the latin american countries, there is definitely something that the needs far more support. and it's not just the vaccines, but also the financial support for the people for them to stay at home, because that's important to note as well. not everyone breaches the rules because they want to. there are some of them, of course we'll go out with legal parties, but others who have to go out quarantine is not an option. i mean, that's a privilege showing the spend demick. thank you. dr. court grand promises were made during the g 7 meeting about how much vaccine the north wants to send to the global south. but when you look at the actual numbers, i think it's 55000000 doses that the us is now pledge, traditionally, it's a tiny drop in the bucket. this is essentially a situation of tree. something doctors are very familiar with where we have scarce

resources and we have to decide where they are best used, given the magnitude of the problem. what would you say when you look at this health inequality and the very low number of people being vaccinated in poorer countries? is that where we need to be sending vaccine right now, rather than keeping it here for ourselves in the rich north? it's very unfortunate that the g 7 and others speak about the importance of global health. but then in the, one of the biggest crisis on global health, that the action is very, very limited. and so, yes, we have to understand it's a global pandemic. and if we do not prevent the glow pretty much from spreading the virus, 10 devices will come back. so like that decision to my country, 1st of those who can afford it and then sending a little bit of ac seem to other countries is not sufficient. we have to substantially increase the effort and sends vaccine to these countries and ideally build up production capacities in these regions so they can actually produce their taxes. let me go back to because of course that was

a big topic for us. last time we talked on this program, the idea had been put out there that we need to see a lifting is patent restrictions so that countries in the global south can make more of their own vaccine. but in fact, india has the production capacity. it has the skills and know how the problem there was bottlenecks on resources. so are you any more amenable to those arguments about lifting patent restrictions than you were back last time we spoke? yes, they should be that they the restrictions should be removed. because right now what we need to understand is we don't have much research on whether, you know, the engine is in the, maxine which is school acts in which it can be whether it can, you know, prevent, you know, of that or you know, hospitalized ations if you get the delta variant, we only have research on pfizer and after that being the waxing which are, you know, which can prevent death if you have 2 daughters of 2 axes. so it is essential that

we have the to move the pattern restrictions on the waxing that work. and we can put them in india. because the issue is that if you, if you try to bring something like pfizer in a containing india, which doesn't have that much food storage, holly, when distorted, so you know, if you remove the restriction, you can produce it according to its own convenience. and you know, in its own we and i think that should be the case for most countries specially onto the africa where you know, the population can't even get vaccinated before the 200-2024. let me pose one question with a request for a one word answer to dr. cut and benjamin given where we are today, must we acknowledge corona isn't going away and that it is time to simply focus our efforts on living with it and perhaps trying to mitigate it. deadliness, dr. correct? already living with so many viruses and we will live in the future with corona engine does so many tools know we have to use them. thank you very much and thanks

to all of you for joining us for to the point i hope to see you soon. the news the ah, the news? the news

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