your hands and wait for the next disaster strike in which you won't be able to play any kind of role. you'll just be left by the side of the road, watching the former jordanian foreign minister. my one washer says that you become passive, accepting a status quo that it doesn't even want. that's true, isn't it? you don't want the current situation because you haven't got any ideas fixing it. well i guess that in some issues, so globally, also in immediate neighborhood of europe, your foreign policy has been quite successful when we speak, for example, ups about supporting girl democrat, the movement speed ga, be ukraine beat, some other countries where on safe if you look at the changes in the, in the west and ball consent and so on and so on. and then yes, you also kind of course find examples where it's really difficult to make a difference. and even to reach consensus in d, u, the same middle east issue. so it is as long as you is not one country,

but the combination of 27 at the state. sure. well, it also remained like this that not in all foreign policy issues you easily can reach very brilliant consensus or, or you can push forward very brilliant ideas where there you, like the position of your member states is, is really strong. so that if you look at the middle east, then yes, it last is already dick gates and dick gates, but it's not only the europe and you and him also, no other country came out with the solution with which really can be helpful. so that, that's why disease really sensitive and complex and problematic issue. you talk about progress in the west mulkins with, with all the disruptions spreading inside be you. is there any point in pushing ahead with enlargement plans there? don't you have enough problems without importing feuds and organized crime and the

drug and people trafficking and smuggling from the west. mulkins, they don't seem to be making a lot of progress in cracking down on organized crime that do they for all of the progress that you talk about. well, i think, i think the patience in distance is needed because if we compare where we are the majority, for example, of eastern european countries in early 900 ninety's and where there are these days was not a show of one or 2. yes, it was the show of couple of the case and in the sense in the future, i also see the same kind of development, the remaining western balkan countries which are not in the yet that the perspective to get membership is also very important to really implement all these changes so that when we speak about serbia or boston a has to be in our or any other country after 20 or 30 years, then we really will see that the u. e. o. prospective membership perspective has

really made difference. well, i mean, you talk about that you take take bulgarian romania for instance. they had to be put under special monitoring for more than 10 years because of problems with rule of law issues, problems with massive corruption which persists to this day. that hasn't been any picnic for the rest of europe having bulgarian romania and the amount of crime that it generates and the amount of corruption that both countries generate on your doorstep. that hasn't been a great gift, hasn't again, i think that that without this european union perspective and without european union member membership. and i think also there risks for the rest of europe have been much, much larger. and where you mentioned romania pull, gary i, which are one of the pressure steel member states. well, but we don't model still look at my own country estonia. if i look back

30 or 25 years, and if i think about the stone today, i still think that it has been a great achievement of europe that they took estonia and, and we managed to showing. and if you look at all the changes, but of course it takes time because all what happened with this particular countries in eastern europe, they didn't happen within a couple of years. they happened within half a century, 50 years of hope to say wrong history. and now to imagine that they were to think can be fixed within a couple of years. well, it's illusion, but it didn't happen, but it will take time misapplied. how worried you about the news this week? the parties of the far right have formed an alliance against brussel, saying they'll fight for what they call national sovereignty and tried to prevent a european state be 16 poppies from 15 countries in the european union, in a direct challenge to the rows that they signed up to when they exceeded to the

european union, that's hardly progress. is it? well i, i'm not worried because we have seen this kind of slogans on the 10 so, so during previous years, there's no election senior more than slogans. i mean, they, they managed to bring you to south to a standstill inside. marian done that no, i disagree so far its own the slogan, since we have seen the slogan. so during previous years, because you, if you look at these concrete political parties, then they are very different. some parties are very progression, some are very much against russia. some party wants to very strong involvement of the state in economy or some other part this they don't want so that in subs from substance actually they are very, very different. and it also has been the reason why so far they didn't manage to unite their forces. so that's one of the things that one of the things that does

unite them is the issue of migrants, which has been particularly divisive for the you. and i think that's actually the majority of citizens in europe. they are very worried about the migration issues starting from this that why people all have to leave data that homeland in the sunsets. it's very human and in lots of cases human tragedy. so that i guess the majority of people in europe in distance don't want to see that people will have to leave their homes and start the life of g. i'm only about to say, yes, miss denied. perhaps the most young, disappointing aspect which human rights groups are underlined last month is how the e u has failed to safeguard people against serious human rights violations at its external borders. the spotlight has fallen on the border agency front, tx, which is accused by human rights watch of failing repeatedly to take action of allegations of human rights violations. that's a serious issue, isn't it?

it's, it's supposed deep hold lines in the values that all men to countries were supposed to sign up to have been a major disappointment for you. why the, for me, the big disappointment actually is that we still have the situation that there are lots of people who have to leave their homes and they have chosen the way to, to be in refugee. so that once again, i think that europe, but also other strong countries in the world. they have to do everything that people simply don't have to leave their homes. but the for really there are, if which east and of course you have to handle this. you have to handle the people who have well the right for protection. they should get it. and people who don't have this, right, they well should be returned. yes. more so way or it's the way they are being treated at the european union's borders by the board agency, front tech. this is what has attracted

a lot of attention from the human rights and a lot of human rights groups and a lot of criticism as well. that from tx, the border agency is accused of failing repeatedly to take action over allegations of human rights violations. why is that, and why is it allowed? well of course all. busy this kind of why elation, so for existing laws and rules, they should not happen. so that in distance, i also hope that the beach front thinks are beat any other organization has to have its lessons learned so that this kind of thing should not happen again. but we also should understand that well, for many people, for many organizations, including chronics, last years, they have been very fast and rapid development that have been lots of changes in their organisation and lots of changes in situation just to concrete. that doesn't justify ministry. absolutely not, and absolutely not. absolutely not, but,

but i think that our perspective also should be to the future, so that all this mistreatment sent violations, they should be investigated so that they will not happen again because yeah, i agree that all this kind of stuff there, people have been treated badly or, or against the law? well, they should never happen again. is it any wonder then the, when these things happening that so many in europe feel that the european project is in serious trouble. last month there was new polling and research by the european council on foreign relations, which showed that majorities in france, germany, italy, spain and austria, now judged the e u to be broken in france, the figure was just over 60 percent on to work by these high levels of dissatisfaction that the functioning of the you well, i haven't seen these figures my last figures we're bit more optimistic. but anyway,

of course, this is everybody's so work to explain why still it is important that europe on countries ought to get there and make corporation. because what is and i'll turn up if every and each, while european country will be on its own. in today's world, nobody really can balance be china, be try show also either big players so that if you look from economic point to fuel, if he wants to look from security point to fuel, personal freedoms, point of fuel than i did. and i personally didn't discover any real turn on if the present situation, but of course it needs explanation. it needs also work with public opinion, or must pied spin good to have you on comes examine. thank you very much indeed. thank you. the news

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