what to do with them all our ways the we can make a difference by choosing smartness solutions overstayed said in our ways, the global ideas, mental theories in 2000 on d, w, and online. well, not. nature's warnings are becoming increasingly drastic. what we used to call extreme events are suddenly the norm and furnace in western canada with temperatures never before registered were shocked and horrified. but we always had things managed to turn away. devastating storm damage in europe, 2 and more denials. so on to the point we ask climate catastrophe, will we ever change our ways? the

news. thank you very much for joining us on the show with us in the studio is pater, pin slot, old and journalist with the humbug based weekly the site. she's convinced that we will change our ways and life will be better. also with this is claudia kemper from the german institute for economic research. she argues that climate protection means freedom across to generations. a fossil for life is not about going without. it's about living a full life and a warm welcome to, to angelica, i'm a christian who is with my cato institute, also headquartered here in berlin and actually say use for the global. so it's all about reconciling di compensation with justice and poverty alleviation. thank you very much for all 43 of you for being here today. i'd like to take the 1st question to cloudy. it's got to do with the united nations,

which is calling the climate change, the defining crisis of our time. indeed, un secretary general antonio. good cherish, says climate change called the climate emergency is a race we are currently losing. however, he insists it is a race we can when you share his ought to be. yeah, i share his optimism because we are now at a tipping point. also in the discussions we are at a tipping point related also to social participation on the topic we, we have the site is for future movement all over the globe. we have the rulings, for example, in germany, from the general court, but also in other countries. as we see, we see step by step, much passed by action than before. and we have lost a lot of time with mag ward discussions last 15 years. but now we have reached a tipping point where we can change, but we have to act now. we cannot postpone it to the future. fascinating insight,

great stuff to begin to show with a fair amount of information optimistic information to pay through. you wrote a book about how you and your family of 4 tried to adopt a carbon neutral lifestyle. how did it go? what did you learn? so we didn't succeed next. if you failed miserably, which i don't thing if you try, you fail. you try again. we didn't say on all counts. what we did with was actually happened out of frustration. we were frustrated with the politicians that didn't really act on the facts that we all saw. climate change is effect. we feel it now in canada, if it in germany was all over the world. so we tried to find out what we personally can do. and we went through a whole year and checked every kind of personal lives. so clothing traveling, the food we eat, the way we'll live. and we lowered our c o 2 emissions from around 11 tons to 7, which not actually really good because we need to go down to,

to couple of things that you can change because you live in a society, you can rebuild your house from scratch, but we were very good way you, you said just statements in the south to show you we will live a better life and that, you know, the optimism that you see were sharing and maybe you share it to is, is fascinating to me. where does that optimism come from? because i experience as personally my life is better know that was before, for example, we had a car, we don't have a car now. we live in a city. so it's actually easier than when you live on, on somewhere in a remote area. but it took me about 2 or 3 months to automatically go from and when i go to work, to use the bike and the car, i need a certain time to, to, to, to, to, to really get used to the different way of live. and now i don't need to go to a bus to do any longer because i bike to work and i back backwards. so i have the sport every day in my life, which makes my life better school. wonderful. actually, i know it's a big casper try and give me a summer if you can,

of how this whole climate debate is impacting india. i think it's pretty relevant in india as it is anywhere else in the world. and i think it's pretty, it's a very, very strong conversation that takes place. and i think it's also reflected in the, the sort of the fledge that in there made in the past 2015 agreement. and it was, it was achievable and it can go bit further. but the thing is, what goes back and what maybe restricts the extent to which and guess able to sort of commit or be able to make the extra effort is other priorities that sort of india is right now leading to achieve with a growing population with economic growth, not yet, i could speak, it's got a lot of space where it's going to confuse more, it's going to admit more. and the ideal sort of a sweet spot would be able to achieve that incremental growth or that incremental consumption. but not the additional emission that the images we tend to see from india, fog smoke, intel in pretty extreme stuff. you don't come from delhi,

do i do? i, i wasn't born that, but i spent majority of my dad's life in delhi and i think it went through a couple of years. you know, it's as bad as it seems. it. whether the ad is foggy, the air is it is hazy, it's not clear. it's been does the news does not sort of give a false impression of how pathetic the situation is and, and that has to be that for this, not that people not doing anything. the government is not up to it that our dog gets there are objectives that are laid down. there are schemes, but it takes a little more than, you know, i think it's a play. it's the demand type play as well as a splice. i play and i think that moving forward. i mean, we're not in a comfortable situation anymore. it's sort of getting to the red line where, you know, we need to really act and we need to really put, put oil here. and i think sort of, we're still finding the sweet spot available to levy a cost on the extra pollution that's been done. but at the same time, not put consumers in a position where they can live a happy life. so i think it's

a great example daily. i remember that one of the german chances a long time ago made a campaign where he's actually set the guy by the rule. this is going to be shabby blue again, and it's an area which was friends for life when lot of cold and coal mining and coca cola plants there. and he actually made the plight we, i want the people to to have good air quality. so switching from cold to renewables is a good way to increase the to, to, to lead to believe that people a better life. i completely agree with. yeah, i completely agree with you, but me on. so in terms of the agreement, because you know that, that's the 3 of you and i some of our, of us what states and they're going to say they've all got the same mindset here alter than me to probably. yeah. and that mindset is that climate change is a very real challenge. there are other people that are around the world, and there are plenty of them. i think it's all may don't. or it's all harmless.

claudia, what do you say to people live out to the denies? yeah. well, it's not the science. what those people refer to because the scientific facts are clear and since the decades are clear that the human and deuce climate change is ongoing. and we already see that by now with the extreme, by the events, for example, in canada, with his wife, in russia, with phoning for as in finland right now. and the climate ologist tell us that's, that's what we will face in the future. much more than that we are seeing right now, though they are scientific findings. and the skeptics are also driven by p. r. campaign waste also from the fossil fuel lobby, scientific studies showing that they are fueling, these p r campaigns in denying and merchants of ours. so to, to see doubt is their business model and we have to look to the facts. i'm a scientist,

we are scientists this the scientific facts. and would you even without believing in climate change, look at delhi to breathe. good, aaron, daily. even without believing and the type of climate change you want better. it's difficult to look the other way. but i think, i mean, of course, i mean it's definitely not easy to be going to walk everyday, given the attitude surrounded with. and i think the situation sort of, you could find examples of london in singapore where they've had congestion pricing in beijing. and i mean, the solution there are solutions existing across the board where cities have faced maybe to not be extent to which spacing, but sort of been there. and you know, how have efforts and policy measures that have been put in place. and i think it's a bit of both. you have someone who is say that it's on the government, the other ones do make the effort and make sure the, the right policies i'm put in place. we can be changing our lifestyle for the other things and bad weather the other side. if you know there is a little bit of responsibility and the falls under guns,

you must make the right choice. that is the deli, metro cycling is particularly not an option. give it, it's not lean driving, you don't have bike lanes, but it's not something you can you can think of that are from the metro station to the offices. you have bikes being provided. you have ordered action, you have multiple boards of transport, a bought from private transport. but i think, i mean, there are, there are many other systemic changes that needs to come up before we. so we leave would be effort of the blame on just the government or just the consumer combine all of this. i mean, you can combine also with climate policy. climate policy creates freedom for many countries for the future generations. climate policy also creates the welfare of all the people and increases welfare as well. and climate change is not. it's not the subject of believe it's really a scientific fact. and as a side this, i always have to say that there's not believing into something. it's not a religion, it's facts, it's science and that's where we are all clear on climate policy help

a lot. now let's look now at one example of how into connected our environments, how be time. so now a lives have become and that example is domestic build up of plus sticks in the world's oceans and rivers. a vacuum cleaner is not enough to combat plastic waste on south africa beaches. millions of tons of plastic particles are now deposited on beaches all over the world. the rivers are in fact, the arteries of these countries that transport the way from the cities. this also applies to the nile and egypt. here volunteers are also trying to stem the tide of plastic. the fishermen are directly affected. but because there will be a lot of plot by the name of the plastic bottles and also can all of the trash is ruining my net. and at the same time, it's killing the film. and some of the piles of garbage are accelerating species extinction and climate change. some material takes several years to decompose and

will probably never break down completely. meanwhile, awareness is growing about the threat this poses to humanity. recycling plants do exist, but they can only recycle a fraction of the waste produced. this is exacerbated by a throwaway society that has become accustomed to having its needs met everywhere at any time. inconvenient packaging should be learned to live without plastic. well that's the question peter, i'd like to just put it in a different way. i mean, we threw fro huge quantities of stuff, especially plastics, into our oceans, in our rivers. what does that tell us about mankind? human kind. it tells us that we have a problem as much larger than climate change. it's a part of the problem. is this, the way we deal with the world? we think the world is just something we can consume and we don't have to get back. we don't have to preserve and we can have ever more. and i think this is a misconception. to certain extent, we have to kind of step back and think what we really need for for 18 months. now,

my newspapers, i've been reading to, there's going to be a big rethink, a big reset because of the panoramic and it's changed the way we think. and the way we see the world, especially the climate issue has been going to happen. yeah, i think that are tendencies and showing that a lot of people think overall, whether this strategy of just always more and more and more and also harming the climate, harming the environment is not a great strategy and we should move away. and now we are learning the video conferences. we are learning more cycling, but always, i mean it's not only a matter of lifestyle, it's also a matter of transformation which brings a lot of challenges. but brings also a lot of chances to all of us, but also to the industrial, to the system itself and a lot of new jobs and system where capitalism versus climate. yeah. so it's not versus it's, it's both together. so in the original form, economy can do

a lot and then really classical social, or socio economic and ecological make, make it together in a certain way, social ecological economics and say, say that way is an issue which we can do. but we have to prize in the environmental damages, we have to price all the climate damages and we have to transform. and that brings a lot of challenges, but also a huge economic transit. just let me, let me for the folks who slogans out to green revolution the growth well, i mean, best they both are good, right. seminole g right now given the climate catastrophe. but speaking globally, i think that the growth of something that needs needs of wider audience needs a wider discussion, needs a wider platform. and right now if it hasn't happened yet, no, definitely not. it hasn't happened yet. and i think we're still sort of mulling over it, that is a huge class of scientists,

a political scientists that have consider going forward with it in terms of research, but the real implementation of it. i don't see the politics denito speaking it up to the extent that it needs to. but if you look at the gold, the south where, you know, we've not trajectories right now, still applauds did not be to be not in the position in terms of standard of living in terms of well being in terms of growth. where we can look at the growth, but you still have tried in the are giving carbon neutral targets, but when it could be 2060, despite the fact that it was only less than 2 decades ago, that we had a real chance at, at reaching the court but i mean having said that, i'd also, i also think claudia said it's not capitalism or climate, and i think it's sort of, you know, working hand in hand because to be able to address the climate issues, we need money. and we have the fossil industries which has the money, so we cannot be working toward solutions by putting them down and, you know, be like, we need the, we need the oil under the ground beneath the account. yes, we need, but we can't isolate them in our fight and i think it has to be sort of,

you know, a play together and how to best find the solution to be able to see harness. if it's, if it's renewable energy, if it's alternate or to the pricing, if it's carbon pricing, we need the other players on board as well. so we're hearing things need the dirty things need to be growth. the good things need to grow and that's, that's the mental issue here. i completely agree of. what is capitalism could kick in in a good way. it's financial markets now more, more leading to change because you don't want to have standard assets. you don't want to put you into a coal mine these days. what? because you don't know within 20 years, it will be able to, to, to, to be run. but we're going to bad the cost of standard assets to the government right now in the developing nations, have the, the, the, the willingness and the financial sense to be able to bad the cost of standard assets. then they have other developing national priorities coming to play. so i think that the fact that there is still a lot of places, a lot of dogs that are given by the leaders in europe and south is, is enough to say that is an intention, but the has to be a tech on. so they have to be a financial support coming, coming at the same time to be able to make those policies reality well in the

battle to keep global warming below 2 degrees. we've touched on this already. we must slash global emissions of carbon dioxide by about 45 percent before 2030, quite soon. so that is all with the aim of reaching 0. net emissions by 2050. the big question is, how 10 years ago, shortly after the reactor accident and fukushima japan, the german government decided to take all german nuclear power plants off the grid and switch primarily to renewable energy sources. german nuclear power will be phased out in 2022. but the dismantling process is a difficult one. the fuel rods need to be called for years to come, and some radioactive substances will have to be stored safely for thousands of years. at this point in time, there are only interest storage facilities. other countries are pushing for a revival of a controversial technology after numerous accidents, an old american nuclear power plants, the biden administration plans to build small more modern plants, france, russia,

and china, in particular, also wants to use nuclear power to satisfy part of their enormous energy needs the advantage, unlike combustible substances, like coal, natural gas, or oil, nuclear power plants are largely c, o, 2 neutral, and therefore more climate friendly, at least from this particular point of view. do we need nuclear power to stop global warming? angela, i'm sorry to hear, but i think if the closes low called an option, extra renewables in terms of providing access to everyone. and yes, there are a lot of reservations that is acosta associated with that. it's high risk, but i think that there is a very less understanding of the economic effects over or over the public perceptions were the lobby perceptions of the potential that renewable can actually have a larger share as a low carbon system. i disagree strongly disagree because the potentials of

renewable energy are really large, especially also for india. and we also la energy has large potential wind energy volume as, as well. so we don't need nuclear nuclear service to risky. extremely costly, one generation uses nuclear power, but forty's, health and generations have to take care of the weights. and that's not what we should put to the future generation. where should we be looking for the right mix for the right for the new technologies where 100 percent renewable energy world and several studies are showing this already. also in the usa, europe can do it. i know the r p r campaigns in favor of the small, medium reactors which is coming from a start up wants to create these reactors. it's a power point technology knowing since the fifty's is not working, it's not economically, it's creating more risk. and also the military issues here and point, but the, the answer is renewable energy is the potential is always neglected and ignore it

is simply by the so p r campaign and india has so large potential. so what i would say is just a quick enough to build all these power plants you need time and we need to find the change for years yet. so you can put a saw that everywhere in the remote areas in africa. sola can be of the solution. wouldn't and a g s way the technology is quite easy so you can put them wherever, wherever we need them. and with the, with, with nuclear it's, it's the other way around. if it's not quick, it's expensive and you know, country has yet managed to deal with the, with the, with the leftovers. just one question. i mean, would we need the perspective of the younger generation and i and i, and i was thinking about, i read about your son who complained you he got annoyed with you because he said that you've, you come from a generation for a shuttle the world. and enjoy doing so, and you, we now have completely different expectations about what i presume. this is

generational. i think this is where the question of, of justice kicks and it kicks in the generations in between the north and the global south. and there is a huge issue that we haven't sauce yet. it's not the seller that has to go forward . it's the nurse. and it's only ration of the young generation because we need to do to let something over when we, when they need to have the possibility to inherit something from this word. and i think it's absolutely right. optimistic. the guardian newspaper only recently had a big headline, sort of, we've had 6 decades of these warnings, but we have, we have who hated to have felt the issue. now we feel it, we feel it in germany, we feed it and canada. we feel that everyone and i would say mankind is able to, to, to quickly when, when the problem is that one strong argument, what i just said, also in the beginning we had a tipping point because of the civil society. and here's the difference on the picture i want to see right now the civil society has changed,

and this is what we see in the rulings of the federal courts also in germany and the netherlands, and the u. s. everywhere the civil society can and is pushing for change peoples because we all fear that there is as lost the future. and we should change right now and i think that is a tipping point. now, i agree that i mean that is the, the gens agent, x and y. that is, that is sort of questioning why is that we have to push back our ones and desires to travel to, to consume a little more. but i think that at the same time that is a lot of awareness in the generation on what, what we're going to be heading towards. and is this the like that the one for ourselves in the next 4050 years? i think a lot of information and understanding has sort of trickle down to schools into syllabus is into putting into the, the, the matter that there's that eat at school. and so there is going to be a bit of pushback because you're essentially limiting the battery of how much can you really want and go out. but i think generation is a lot more aware before they take their choice. is it a good options?

you have a lot of the younger generation or maybe the, the twenties and thirties, we who have accepted to make the change in terms of the transport that they use in terms of the diet they have in terms of how much that they can see. and what kind of housing, where are they going to live? how much are the driving in the and i mean, a lot of it has to do mike speed. and so 5 been european experience to me. and in india there isn't enough to sort of complain because it's not like it's, it's beyond control that you know, every month someone's outside. so it's, i wouldn't say that there is so much of a pushback from the generation. i think there's a lot of acceptance. it's going to take a change. there is a bit of sort of a sort of an annoyance that, you know, we've come so far. yes, 60, nothing's happened, but i'll be waiting for it to reach in a situation to act. but something is going to happen in this country in the next couple of months where we have a general election there very, a watershed election. i would suggest that the end of september, or half a minute from each of you. what advice would you give to the incoming german

government, on the climate issue? to go forwards quickly because there's lots of markets for the german industry if we now switch into to green economy. if we are able to provide green products and debate, we need to, we really need an honest debate about the chances, but also about the transformation. not only determined goals, that's good, but all confirm. but we need measures to go there and to there's some kind of dishonesty in the whole debate they can do better on the carbon pricing issue. i mean, guess it's still in mid term. so me what exactly, you mean? i don't know. we go for a little time, but when you said they can do better, i mean, i think they're rated for unit that's being set right now. is not the limit to which we actually need to be able to reach metric therapy or to be able to meet the, to the remark, but 2015 by mid century. very find very polemics and just saying whether it as a line prizes increasing or whatever. 5, st also,

and the debate is over. so the price is really good measure, but in reality the politicians cannot make it really happen. and that's the main problem, was it? so i think we need is a whole mix of matters that absolutely agree. but the moment wasn't put, the thing is that they start to put into place measures and it's not just about perez and atlanta goes any longer. it's not time to think the engineer is absolutely right. and we have the things we have the measure, the technology, we can go forward and shoot shot. so we really need to talk about the chances we have the opportunities galore. we have learned we've been talking about the, the climate catastrophe. how to avoid the catastrophe that is already arrived. we're in a good mood. we're hopeful of for the future. and we'd like you to join us again to

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