some of died because they didn't have medical information all this scares me about what my bio dad reason i may have given his hundreds of offspring. he actually has parkinson's almost all the time. he is producing kids. my brother david and i meet up with my other brother david, who's been looking into the health risks in my dna. best and i'll show you elsewhere. ok. there it is. hawkinson disease late onset susceptibility parkinson's disease on another genetic test or another gene. gotcha. so that is all the scenario like a star is definitely visa and because he had bargenson going to really dark stuff. this was the dog. so now the great news here and the gene set this man gave his other than that, it's fantastic just to talk. so for the crows disease, what, okay, this is based on your personal genetics and genetics and environmental and viral

triggers. you've got to know there should be no annual, medically that's over. i'm finding out that almost all my serves think that the anonymity of donors is just wrong. now, of course, let emotion continue. everybody has the right to know who their logical parent was . definitely. i think for anybody's mental health, you write your own stories is very important for those of us who have been through this experience to any of us down for a moment. that our common genetic background has meaning has significance. not which we give to it, but which it gives to us most don't conceive people seem to want the option to know there are donors identity and in the u. k. david and others influence the government to change the law. and in anonymity since 2005 kids have the right to know their donors identity when they reach 18

in canada, in 2000 and 4th, we persuaded the government to do the same when people find their fathers or they find their relatives, these are tremendously important stories, and i think they're important for a reason. i think it's a very basic year and then the government changed his mind. the doctors told him there'd be no more donors. and in the u. s. a. well, nobody has been standard in the sperm industry since the beginning one, and i'll tell, i don't have a play with me since the start. and everyone thought that the only way a guy would go on a sperm is if he could be anonymous, turned out that wasn't true. meet him galaxy. why did you decide to be identifiable? curiosity, i supposed to start with, but that at some point some portion of the kids would be interested in meeting me and i would be interested, many of them. and so why not mom?

i actually picked, she tells me that's what she picked him because his voice according sounded really like sweet. and he said that he wanted to meet the kids. she was, she was raising us thing i've ever pretend it's like be like her parents because i wasn't that worked right. i didn't take the school over david tucker and i was you and your brother are not the only biological offspring that tim has cracked. how many do you have was that i've met? are 17. 1717 told me. here's joe. another one of kim's kid me every summer, tim ran some cabins by the lake and spent a week with a bunch of his bio kids. and just like in my own family terms, offspring crossed paths before they knew they were related. i came in close contact

with 2 of my siblings and didn't know their my like this guy that i worked with was on the same water polo team sawyer, his boyfriend on my way, if i had hung out with him more probably would have meant sawyer and not knowing she was my sister and danny went to the college. i lived on the campus of. so i probably passed him out of all his in scam post start to minutes for my house. all like is your brother. he's my brother. good thing. most of the day, yes, tim wanted to be found by his offspring. but california cry bank his firm may. didn't want to help his rules that i and things i had to follow to try to get any information. and what was it like i had the bottom line was they said they didn't know if they had my contact information, but they would try that let you know. yeah. and they call me back and they didn't. and they, they never gave you his information. now even though he was supposed to be identifiable

to you and basically they told him that i could not reach. and so i called them up and said, relying, i've always kept you updated with my phone, my email and my spam mail address. and they asked me for wasting their time, so it was clear to me they weren't interested in making or facilitating that connection even though all parties wanted it. correct. yeah. wow, really more and more donors willing to be identified to their spring once their adults. when the u. k. ended anonymity, the number of sperm donors went up. other countries have also ended the secrecy. some us banks no longer accept new anonymous donors at all. smoke california

driving the biggest in the u. s. still has them and they've agreed to talk to me. but at the last minute they cancel. they say they don't want to be part of my personal journey. anonymity means that a lot of babies can be produced from one man by bio the visa had maybe 600. but what if there's someone out there with an even bigger family? this is steve shelter. he's a bodybuilder, a psychiatrist, and he used to be an anonymous sperm donor. when i was freshman and medical school actually, and medical school for me to be a sperm. i got started. that's. i mean, it didn't help you financially in medical school. you know, it actually didn't pay $20.00 a donation, but very quickly, they range that $40.00 and how many years do you do this?

17 years i'll total what my schedule one for twice a week, 17 years. but it's not impossible. you could have a 1000 kids or more. yeah, i think about the numbers and i had it was possible. how do you feel about that? well, i guess there's not reality into it. i just can't imagine that i've got all these kids out there. so i've never really focused on what the numbers might be. i see i was to be whatever god determined they might be. you know, over the years i've thought about, certainly there may be some children out there. and in prayer i would as cause blessing upon them. again, there's not having met anybody and so recently it just didn't really feel real time at derrick darren about a year ago. actually. yeah. how did you find joe? i just got onto several of the websites. the 1st thing they sent me was,

was to contact him, who's kind of what, what was this? did you think might be for money? well, you know, everything's lunch has all that was going through my you how do you for him? my biological father, my friend, is become a really good friend and a friend, my parents as well, was using a sperm on a difficult decision, feel that it wasn't for me, but i'll let jan speak for sale a little bit some somewhat. i want to say more of the, of a pride thing. you know, you want it you, it would be nice to have your own related child. so there was a bit of the loss. yes. yes. so bob, you decided to tell you on the truth very was having some medical issues that i'd never experienced or had run in janet's family. and so that was probably the

reason that we, we told eric so maybe he could do some research. and if you ever found out who is donor dad was, you know, that might help him give him some more insights into his medical issues. so may i ask what they were? i was having some allergy problems that made it difficult to swallow food at some point. and interestingly enough, that was, that was something that after i made the connection with steve that you, we, we kind of shared and some of the families have that had that problem over the christmas holidays. i actually told you, i said, well, we'll thank you for making it possible for us to have derek said, i think he turned out pretty well and i'm glad you are part of the, the donor program there at all that effort that the medical community, sorry, went to, to keep everybody divided wasn't actually that necessary perhaps. right. and when

bob shared this was my response question is tremendous. blessed me for one god showing me that he on my prayers, he but hundreds more might be too much of a blessing and still wants to find out how many he has. so he's going to talk to one of the doctors he sold sperm to i think there should be significant limits to how many children, any individual donor can syiaa. if that is the word when you're talking, maybe hundreds of people that's, that's not good. i do feel there's something wrong about that number being somehow much higher than if it could be natural. this mass production, it makes you feel a bit like you've come of the production line of a factory. how many women could be impregnated by one man. and conceive how many thousands, 2000. sure. yes,

i can see the problem. yes. it is. and the very 0. are you not getting that? and this is the last one. was there never. we've come to see the doctor at one of the places steve donated in louisville. he's anxious to find out more about his hundreds of offspring. inspired by wash san juan, happened upon me about a year ago, a testing mediconnect. now he's, cuz he's who told her simulation that's prompted to be just ask questions, what was actually changed careers, sperm donor, you know, all of this was done in a very anonymous fashion. all of parties were advised that the donor would not know who the couple was and vice versa. you know,

the couples wanted the peace of mind to know that one day somebody's not going to come up and say, and that's my kid and i want my kid back kind of thing. so at that time, we only used medical students and we didn't want them looking over their shoulder for somebody that perhaps then got divorced and wanted to sue the donor for child support or something like that. with donor insemination. some people don't want their child to know with utter disregard to an agreement. you know, like i give you permission to tell. it's just coming out. it's popping out of the woodwork. derek has talked about how important that connection is with his dad. and ultimately, if he gets to know me, he'll get another dose of enrichment of this life meeting or dealing with people enriches your life. you don't think there's anything special about the genetic connection. i'm not

a psychologist. okay. i would, i would say that you would have to study it to see what you're saying intuitively. sounds good. when put to the test, it may or may not. i'm not disagreeing, but i'm not fully agreeing with it either. when a person becomes an adult, there are some pretty good reasons that maybe they should know their family medical history. and so i mean from my perspective, i think people should be allowed to know at least kind of at that point. so actually, that's a question i have that. are there any such factors that might indicate anything about how come from my donations past in terms of practice or pers, the answer is no. we did our best for a long term to keep the record kept records in a safe even i'm trying to think it was oh,

7 november that we had a flood in this building which took out 2530 percent of the building, including this whole suite we were out of the building for a well and last some of them to some of it may actually still exist that we go have put away and yet to come out. sounds like one thing you would like to know from dr. levine would be the numbers that would be nice to know. yes. that, that would take some going. it would any possibility that steve could find out a bit more about and see if he wants to make to take the next. we would have to chat about that one day over the state through suburban or something. okay, so yeah, we'll chat about it over state and suburban, losing sperm donor records seems to happen

a lot in this business. so i've gone to colorado to meet wendy kramer. i've known wendy for a long time. she's one of the sperm banks. biggest critics. so good. nice to you. yeah, we were out have long before dna testing, wendy, and her don't. a conceived son, ryan started a website. it was called a donor sibling registry. d. s. our parents only know the anonymous donor by a number on the d as r site spring can use that number to find other children from the donor with the same number. their siblings and thousands of donors also sign on to match their offspring. as our tim, the donor and l. a found is these numbers are updated every night. this is how many people we have matched. 17926. so we will hit 18000

in february. and then 67188 people on the dsr. so that's parents don't or can see people children, the parents have posted and donors, a donors and firm donors. sometimes the donors find that the sperm banks have lied . can you imagine you're this guy and you go, you know, i think the right thing to do would be to make myself available to those 10 kids. i was told i might have out there. yeah. and you come to the dsr and i know this because i hear from donors all the time. who go? ok, just a minute. i just went on your website and it says i have 35 kids. that's impossible . i was promised 10. yeah. well right. of course, this can only happen in a closed anonymous system, which wendy hates as much as i do. donor can see if people are all too often told. you should be happy to be alive. you should be just happier parents want to do so much and it's like book shore. but i also am

a human being. i have an innate desire to know where i come from and who i come from. so you can't deny that either not with adopted people, but also not with don't are conceived people. california credit bank has no idea how many have siblings ryan have because they have no accurate record keeping. it's preposterous. you can't promise limits when you don't have accurate records. it's impossible, you know, a cost money. they have accurate record keeping a costs money to update medical records into share medical information. it costs money to have the accurate record keeping that it would take to limit the number of kids per donor. so it takes money to do all of that. and that they're a profit business. they're selling gap meets at least in the you can, australia, et cetera. there is some regulation. do you think that canada might progress to having some here, but they get all their sperm from the u. s. burbank, so what are they going to regulate california cry. oh bank. i don't think so. well,

they could demand that the sperm be identifiable by yeah, let them try, sir. i just don't see it happening. so you see the way forward is basically people using the dna sides with the help of your website. absolutely. there's nothing else . nobody else cares to step in and provide regulation or oversight. the sperm banks are big, they're powerful. they're wealthy. they have lobbyists in washington, they keep any and all regulation from happening. any time there's regulation that gets proposed, they put the kibosh on it immediately. it's the fact watching the hand house. we can't change what's happened in the past, but now there is no, absolutely no excuse whatsoever for donors to insist on secrecy. and furthermore, there is no such thing as secrecy anymore. everyone has the right not to be

deliberately deceived or deliberately deprived of information about essential aspects of their personal history. the trouble is straight couples often don't tell their kids. so david, a lawyer is campaigning for us to have birth certificates with the sperm or egg donors, name as well as the parents. these accurate birth certificates would be available to offspring once they become adults. and in many countries is a growing movement from the donor conceived to en anonymity back in 2004. i was here in ottawa arguing the same when the government refused. one of the employees who persuaded the government to preserve don't anonymity was dr. eddie fry. hi, dr. fry. i'm very steven. he's very nice to meet you. to thank you for doing this. i really appreciate something i can answer your questions or

concern was there for many people who donated. they did not want people to know who did they donated for whatever reason, but they didn't necessarily want to have someone coming and saying you my father or you, whatever. when you decided to preserve the anonymity, because some people might come and come out that much as to to preserve anonymity, it is to protect the rights of the donor just as you protect the rights of the child. but they don't know how that we don't know how to choice. we didn't have a choice and we were the ones who resulted from that true. yes. and of course, sedona had a choice and the doing could refuse to do late, in which case a lot of people would not have had access to doing this phone. and so i don't see how anyone can suggest that only one group in a discussion should have their rights observed than the others should have none. the main reason was that you were afraid there would be no more donors if we ended

out on one of the major reasons. because people were very reluctant to come into an age and the 1st race. and many of them when he did so because he knew that their identity would protect, we didn't want to dry up the number of donors, they don't dry up. when the u. k ended anonymity, the number of guns actually went up. i would like to see a system where only donors who are who are willing to be identified to their offspring on the offspring it to be bold enough, should be recruited and that has been shown to work. and if it does work, then why not do it in the future? then if you think you would like to see amendments, you a free canadians to come up and ask, oh, put our petitions, get a lot of people to sign on to that y m s. and what, no, but i, i will respond to people coming to me in with a petition and seeing a lot of us want this to happen. one person is not enough. and i think it would be

a good idea practically for, for the government of canada to get out ahead of this. there is no problem with that. i don't have a problem with people coming to do that. and again, and then i will wait and see what that evidence says and make my decisions based on not fair enough. thank you. some progress. and i just start to fries, right? i have to come back again with sounds of this. in the meantime, i'm going back to london one last time. my new family loves a party, so i've got them together to hear what they have to say about all this. the like any family you meet some people you really connect with the 1st person i met in england, david, we have what we. we make, it's going to show up and they, we live up in soho and gable by the end of the evening. so these guys, incredible, this is really for me, this is amazing. then as you get to know other people, you know, i don't know if you like some people,

but then you like just my family and that's the, that's the basic line is the same thing. is this 400 more on the cell? it's actually more like 600 or more when the test through conflict, we're going to say that one of the forest focuses on like, you know, where the 1st one is. the only very recently, like in the last 2 years, i went on to some of these don't conceive sort of whatsapp groups and the facebook groups and, and, and i was really shocked, really shocked and upset to see the really young people talking about how they hadn't been told, you know, people in the twenty's been told, the finding we siblings, you know, is different in finding the doctor was that mean loans of them? i'm thinking jesus, i always was just off because we were in this weird sort of initial phase. i was new,

but it's actually still going on and that makes me really upset. i think it's really, people should know better now, like maybe our parents didn't get better. they should see the end of anonymity surely surely is going to cause pain for those people who chose shoes or chose to do something that was deep. can private person for me that the real point is that we all have a right to our narrative. we will have a right to our story, and that seems to me just to be incontrovertible. the, to be human, is to have a story. and to have a story, one must have a true story. just saying these, these kids are better off and knowing it's both and for someone else to come in and say, but for the convenience of others, we'll just delete that. it is not clearly to argument for it historically saw. he was simply that donors would not come forward, and if understanding was that they might be off to the abolition of anonymity,

the number of registered spam, jones went off. yeah. and then you will, the industry is making the money out of it and it's often quite discussing actually with it so. so i'd like to ask what it was like for the nieces and nephews, but we didn't have any really uncles or anything like that. and it is like, i think it's great because the young, but i've got a whole lot of times of people and family to be able to stay in contact with and to be able to meet if you're traveling across the globe and everything like that. we have a lot of. gotcha. yeah, exactly. and i think, i mean i'm, it's becky says, any car on the line and there is something, i mean, a lot of people in the, in the job i do and with most people like i get on. but there was something, there was a connection on a guy that was like in some ways i know them all my life and i cannot describe it. and i wouldn't like to say why thoughts? my? oh, so i felt may saying, given that diary in canada, he was,

that was sort of not a major female connection, but there was a connection that we barring the i thought were not spend the day with him. we had some quite good last i think. but i wouldn't have had that with any other by the i just the experiences know what it is, but there is something there is that there is something last question. this is really who looks like who the, you look the while i was editing this film, several new siblings appeared on the d. n. a science special visas, descendants that we have identified. now number 137. and there are plenty more to

come. it's a bit of a paradox. it's great to be part of this class. but i really hope that we are one of the last of the huge families produced by anonymous men. and that we can put an end to all the secrets and lies ah me. the news news,

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