and if they want to do what many people suspect they want to do, which is to create a situation in hong kong, which is the same as the mainland, where you have a highly controlled into that you have no free breast whatsoever. outside state control media. there is in fact, space for more action to be taken in hong kong. all right, steve, i forgot to leave it there, but thank you for painting us that picture. watching the heaviness of next and your winter with the coven, 19 special bamboo croft here in berlin. thanks for watching while morrison. the fight against the corona virus pandemic. how has the rate of infection been

developing? what does the latest research say? information and context? the corona virus update the coded 19 special next on d w. and what secrets lie behind these walls? discover new adventures in 360 degrees. and explore fascinating world heritage sites. d. w world heritage 360 get the app. now brazil has been a latin american leader in fighting the corona virus, but it wasn't always that way. the country was battered by the coven 19 pandemic. with 618000 debts. it's 2nd only to the united states for the number of fatalities

. now infections in brazil have plummeted to do to high vaccination rates. nearly 80 percent of adults have been vaccinated at least once, but fear remains, particularly as the country prepares for the impact of the new omicron variant. welcome to your coven, 19 special. i'm daniel winter. brazil is ending the year on a high not have covered cases like some countries, but vaccinations. let's take a look now at how the country face down mounting deaths and a president who down played the impact of the virus to become one of the walls most vaccinated populations against coven. hardly any one in the world thought it possible. a year ago. the corridor, this hospital in the brazilian city of toledo is deserted. a lot of the emergency equipment has been put away in the storage room. this is the result of what might be brazil's most successful vaccination drive against corbett 19. she goes with us

. we used to have 40 intubated patient, c, a u. now we don't have any. and it's very rare for us these days to have to provide that level of intensive care cases that are also much less severe than before. so we can think more carefully about how best to treat those who are sick and to give them a better prognosis. my stamps will be processing major with oversee it is a far cry from the 1st half of 2021. copied casualties peaked in april, reaching more than $4000.00 deaths in a 24 hour period, brazil's mega city. so paolo was averaging between 70800 deaths a day to day. it is the country's poster child for corano virus vaccinations with 99 percent of adults here having received at least one shot by november. i

asked this course, i think people should get vaccinated, and that means every one of us had oprah lena as it is their mice, me, or that the me view. many brazilians are afraid of the virus and get vaccinated, so as not to be contagious. as soon as i come at all, man in record, star brazilians believe in vaccines. after all, we have been getting vaccinated against tropical diseases for a long time. we like it. but while brazil may have turned a corner in fighting the pandemic for now, there is one persistent problem. poverty has been exacerbated. ordinary brazilians are struggling earlier in the year, we met sylvia dale since a cook, who was supporting 3 other adults as the only one in her family to still have work, albeit just one day a week. she used to work other jobs too, but her other employers let her go for fear of infection that want to get us up.

and the me a, you live on that, that this pandemic is difficult. it's going on. i love her starving non. okay, that's a part from al, have damage it does to your health. look at this cannot be met. we're all on the same boat back. but no more than a mental back every afternoon. sylvia was chewing up the food donations since the beginning of the pandemic in brazil in march last year, the residence association has been distributing rations. the latest figures show the economy stagnating, and inflation rising. food prices increasing, while jobs remain few and far between. while the worst may be over the pandemic is still ravaging brazil grinning poverty and hunger to more and more people unless get more now is fabiola al, a research doctor specializing in infectious diseases. thank you very much for joining us, our fabio. and what's your opinion on why brazil has been so quick to take up the vaccines? thank you for having me here, daniel. well, i think that,

and we've known we've known that for sure for decades that the main reason for the success in brazil with vaccination is the public health system that is universal in brazil. so free for every brazilian. and within this system, there has been for decades, very complex and efficient vaccination system that has worked to get even to very remote areas in the country. so we created a culture of vaccination as well as the for structured, needed to get to every brazilian as quick as possible. and so it was that infrastructure which already existed that overcame the resistance from the top of national government. would you say? yes, especially because this health care system that we have in brazil that is similar to what has been a reference in the u. k. provides institutional structure. so it's

very solid. so our institutions are stronger than any promissory or temporary government who will not. that might not be supporting this system as much as needed. so obviously there were several and major limitations because it's been underfunded chronically. but still it's in place and working and it has the population more to 75 percent of the population actually uses the system regularly and it is structured in a way that locals. our agents are community agents that knock on people's doors and follow the health situation. of the entire family, so they rely on this system. the breed brazilians rely on this public health system . and that's why vaccination was not such a new idea or challenging idea. despite all the difficulties that we had with communication. and just goes to show how important that kind of long term

investment in education around vaccines, especially around infrastructure, how that re pays off. but when we look to the short term, is it time for brazil now to open up a new year, open up the carnival? is some politicians they're suggesting? or is that just to well, we are going through a new moment. we're learning as time goes by. how to deal with the demick and not only from the perspective of the virus and disease, but also as a community, as a global society. so after 2 years of going back and forth with locked downs and strict measures, we have to learn how to better handle the situation because it's a much different situation from what we had 2 years ago. as was mentioned in brazil, we have the majority of the population in major cities like sound polar and rio over 90 percent of the adult population is fully immunized. so even if we have

a surge of cases which is likely to happen is already starting at this point, like we see in europe and north america, we expect that hospitalizations and the death toll will be very different. and a lot. ready smaller than we had in previous waves. so hopefully and we are preparing for that situation. we will deal with mild disease that will actually create pressure on the health care system, but not in hospital. is it hospitalizations and decimals. ok. and your mentioning in that the will factoring in the, on the chrome variant and the new wave which could come from that. so that flexibility is important that as well with dealing with new variance. but i want to move on to, as we saw in the report, the fact that poverty has wasn't in brazil. what's the connection in brazil between poverty and cove? it well, it's a direct connection as it is, i think,

world wide. because as we have to slow down the economy and all the activities, the social activity is those who are more vulnerable, i have less opportunity to earn dear and basic needs. and that creates an even bigger difference between dos who have more of the funds and, and the money from, from the country and those who have less access. so this is creating, increasing this difference in brazil and in many other parts of the world. right, well it's a plenty of lessons to learn from brazil. it seems fabulous. i'll thank you very much for that. thank you. and now it's time for you to ask and for us to unzip his if you a question for our signs correspondent derek williams. oh,

can vaccines and the pin they make? oh, it's interesting to look for nearly 2 years of reporting on this pandemic and, and realize how much our ways of thinking about some things have changed over that period of time. remember, for instance, when we all more or less thought that if we could just manage to vaccinate 60 to 70 percent of the world, then we'd had heard immunity and, and source covey to would be conquered and would just sort of magically go away. well, along with vaccine hesitancy in many places, the arrival of new, more highly transmissible variance and waning vaccine induced immunity, of gonna put paid to that idea. experts don't talk about heard immunity much anymore. and i think that's because it's always been pretty closely associated with

the thought that we'd be able to eradicate coven 19. and, and most scientists no longer believed that we'll be able to do that. in fact, most think now that the declaration that the pandemic is finally over when it comes, that it'll be a less of a bang and kind of much more of a whimper. for most experts, the goal has stopped being to wipe out the disease entirely, but instead to manage it as we do others. and that's where vaccines will play a really major role. though the evidence indicates that vaccines don't do as much as we'd like to hinder the transmission of stars covey to or to stop infection with the virus entirely. they do generally prevent the development of severe symptoms that can lead to hospitalization and death. so, in that sense,

vaccines pan and a pandemic, i'm not by helping us to wipe out sars covey do completely like, the smallpox vaccine wiped out that pathogen. but instead, by protecting enough people well enough that one day we'll be able to live with coven 19 ike. we already live with the flu. boom, and that's it for your covert 19 special. i'm daniel winter from me and the whole team stay healthy. stay safe and see you again soon. into the conflict zone with sebastian. at least 27 migrants perish in the english channel. will this now force europe to commit the safer migration policy? give off stop in brussel,

member of the european parliament. and the former prime minister in belgium, what happened to be used much value and what performed in india conflict next on d w. their importance to the economy is huge. but getting hold of them is often a dirty business. critical commodities make us mobile, make our smartphones smart. how can today's global hunger for lithium cobalt and more the satisfied me in germany. in 60 minutes on d. w. o. nico is in germany to learn german clinical. why not learn with him?

d, w e learning course, eco's fake american home. any portion of love us her now in the world right now, the climate change. if any harm to the story. this is my plans the way from just one week. how much work can really get we still have time to go. i'm going with 5th. subscribe along with this week on conflict zone, at least 27. my grants perish in the english channel. will this now force europe to commit to say for migration policy? i hope it is a catalyst that finally give a hofstadter in brussels member of the european parliament and the former prime minister of belgium. if e u member countries can't agree on

a life and death issue like this, what's the point of the you only on that you level, you can manage this as part of security, inflict water cannon and tear gas on refugees or their border with bella. luce, what happened to the use much vaunted values and what reforms are needed. also the trouble with facebook and the need for a revamped nato all on conflict on i gave her dad welcome to conflict zone. let's talk 1st about the migrant sir john last week since as the crisis of the moment it is, would you think this is going to be the catalyst for some new european policies on migration? i hope so because this tragedy in the, in the not see or is sir not 3rd, not the 1st tragedy. and we have seen so many a casualty, sir. a treasure these in the mediterranean. now this is happening here or in the,

on the north sea. so i hope it is a catalyst to finally to have a common or european migration policy or a because it's already more than 20 years, that we are talking about the common migration policy. and it never happened because a common migration policy could to avoid the tragedies as we have seen her last week. france called for urgent talks to discuss this tragedy. but then it dis, invited a british minister because he didn't like one of bars. johnson's tweets, you don't do that if you're serious about finding solutions, do you i don't thing that you, you, you start to do are such talks with, with, with tweets aunt that sir. maybe the way a from a debt is a policies. but that sir, not the way we do it inside the d european the inside european union. so i think at more important is to concentrate ourselves on our what could avoid

search or tragedies. and again, there a change in d, a european ah, migration, and sign of policy is absolutely key. i like that is also a need for you k for united kingdom to understand that they are now out of the european union. and they need to take their own responsibility for down migration, an asylum policy, or what i think totally understand. and i'll reason i the, i think they understand that i'm talking about a diplomatic go up. so i'm not sure i'm not so sure that maybe you understand that i'm not so sure that the, that the british government and buddy johnson understand there's this diplomatic stand off, may be great fun for governments. but the only people who are going to get hurt by this are the migrants, isn't it time for everyone to stop playing games with these people's lives? it's, it's at the time now earth to do what are the most governments,

especially also the british government, but also other governments have always avoided to do that is to develop a common migration and assign a policy that is based not on unanimity, a ruling on, on the decision by unanimity but unqualified majority because that's the reason that we don't have the last 20. yes. a common migration and asylum policy. it is already since 1999, a debt. we decided that migration would be a common policy in the union. and since then, nothing have happened. and the 1st thing to do is to create a and to establish a common legal migration of policy. because a many of this tragedies r o, d u. the consequence of the fact that we don't have a legal migration policy in the union. and the 2nd thing to do is to have common asylum standards in union. so there is no shopping any more possible. and a 3rd thing to do is to

a really better manage our outside borders of the union outside walls of the union . yeah, and unfortunately i want to come on to the anti bodies in a minute. but if, if, if, if e u member countries can't agree on a life and death issue like this, what's the point of the, you the point of the you is that only on the, you level, you can manage this. you see the red brit britain cannot managers, although it needs to ask to european union to take action. otherwise, tragedies will continue. tragedies for people want to reach and want to go to a united kingdom. and the point is, art point is as a euro, as the european parliament, we have already said for years. and i hope that in the next conference in the future of europe, we will achieve that, that we need to get rid of unanimity. the problem is that the fact that you need the approval of 27 mabis days before you can act. and in the meanwhile,

such tragedies are happening because of this impossibility or to go forward on migration policy. because the unanimity or requirement that the that exist today. okay, but at the same time that is not this is ailing on the leads out the only feel that it's not the only field the you is facing a major credibility issue because it doesn't just sell goods around the world. it tries to sell values as well, and i wondering which values thee was selling when poland was filmed, tear gassing helpless migrants on the border with belarus and showering them with water, cannon and freezing temperatures. not the greatest advert for e e values wasn't, doesn't, does not make you sorry. what not? no, not, not. you're. now you're not very objective in the way you're put your question because the problems and the bodies border are not a problem caused by european union or caused by poland that are problems caused by luc ankle by belarus. you guys was an appropriate way to treat them. i tried to use

and abuse or migrants and they got abused by pilot. again, that's a problem that has been that it's a problem caused by luca change. so it's not very objective to invert the roles and to do as the migrants of the border between batteries and poland are a problem that has been caused by the european union. that's not, and you know, it's very well it's and what we have done in the meanwhile is to try to have agreements with dose countries where these people come from. so to avoid that, they are abused by a dictatorship in the neighborhood of european union, as has been the case at the last weekend months. and you are right. i deplore as you use of violence in that. so. so some of the, like you, it, you vented into have resulted and i'm talking about the particularly dirty deal

with the libyan coast guard, paid in effect now by the you to hunt down my going boats in the mediterranean and take the human rights violations visited on them can 20, i guessed it, i have that, that you're wanting it may be your next time you're done. invites me to have you interview your invite. the commissioner was responsible for that because exactly as a member of parliament, i have criticized this to what's the european commission. i am not a member of parliament we'll have to if had to policies of european union. so next time you take you to be of commissioner, responsible for these matters and you ask him this questions. i'm as critical as you on the fact that is happening. and as the reason why i take that european migration and assign a policy needs to become a european union matter why that is not to day. because all elements that you have to put forward the problems in an all t in the tragedy we have seen in the naughty the problems at the border between poland and bellows. the problems in the mediterranean, ah, to wear it,

sir. a libya and people coming from there and abuse, there are all the consequence of the fact that all member states are responsible for that. and europe in union is not. so it's not the question of european union. it's a question of a lack of european union, a lack of european migration and asylum policy. but next time my proposal to you is invite the commissioner responsible for it because i am as critical towards for this happening in the media terrain and in the naughty as you do, your critic go about it. the media is critical about it. the reports have been coming in and going to the u. n. and human rights organizations for a long time. and yet nothing gets done about it. why do you think that is a because a, like i, i will explain for the 3rd time of a 4th time now that this policy's for the moment asked old policies of the member states because there is no unanimity inside european council to change this

migration policies even at the moment when so many people refugees came from huh. yeah, syria and the conflict in cedar to where it's europe. yeah. it misses marigold said okay, be a shuffled us. we gun at the big them. we gonna take them inside germany. that was a national measure without consultation, read the others. so we need absolutely a radical change in the way utopian migration. an asylum policy is treated in unit and we have to do it in a common way. we have to do it on the european level, whether good border management with common eyes. i'll m and a migration conditions and with a legal migration part where because a lot of the tragedies in the mediterranean n, in the naughty, are the consequence of the absence to day of a legal way to come to work, to be active as a migrant. in europe, you claimed earlier this year that

e integration has been enormously important. you said to enshrine rules, rights and freedoms, into our societies in europe. but in a number of e u countries, those rules exist only on paper, don't they? and your powerless as you said, to do anything above that, hungary and poland for instance, with all the rule of law issues. they know how to game the system, does they and they can paralyze it if they want to hold up discussions on the budget, hold up this and that so far from enshrining your rules, the ear is being strangled by them isn't though absolutely not. there is a way to tackle this ever there is an unwillingness in european council under d at some states and government. and under d prime ministers are to tackle that problem. my, what i expect is that with a new german government arriving a government of a socialist liberals and greens, that this new government will be far more critical on this issue. let's be honest

about it. until now. we didn't tackle the problem and angry with didn't to tackle in, in poland. it because the european council, under the leadership of mrs. malika was not capable to do it. the volume that was got morris, lou said they would get it on. they think they had a car, sorry, the commission launched the procedure on it. and european court of justice also took its responsibility. the only institution would didn't take into responsibility was the european council. and i, i think my expectation is that with new german government arriving empower now. this will change and we will see really european union who is active using the instruments or to make sure that the values in european union also applied in countries like poland and hungary. you've criticized european leaders for lack of courage. you said the, the instruments, for instance, of that with

a for dealing with rule of law issues in pakistan and hungry to exist it the instruments exist. you said only the courage among leaders is failing. so why do you think you leaders are so gutless on this issue? the of for the simple reason at that in the council, everything is decided between them. i have never seen in european council and was a long time, a member of the european council. one colleague attacking another colleague, one colleague tried the sizing and other colleague, one colleague, a yacht sanctioning, i should say, a, another colleague around the table that doesn't tell that doesn't work in european council. therefore, i think with the arrival of a new german government, i think that we'll see europe in castle far more critical towards what is happening in poland and in hungry. and in top of that, i think that in the future, we need to maybe to change the instruments and changing them as it means to give to european court of justice

d capability to competence. not only to give in judgments about what is happening in poland and hungary, but also to decide on sanctions. what is the case in every normal or rule of loan system in every country? so i think that fundamentally and ultimately it will be necessary to give you competence to a european court of justice. what to give them the possibility to decide on sanctions towards countries that you're not applying the fundamental values of, you know, you mentioned earlier, the conference on the future of europe, which your co chairing, yet another inquiry into what europeans want from their institutions. has there ever been an organization that does not navel gazing and introspection? no, it's not, it's, it's not the consulting was hit pumped is absolutely not that. what we are organized with the conference on the future of europe is an unseen exercise. well, we try to combine representative democracy with participatory democracy. the

synthesis war you're talking about in totally 800 selected, randomly selected people are not the or not that to give their opinion. ah, and it's over. no, no, they are participating in the decision making process. it's will the 1st time i think in, in, in a modern democracy, a dad to citizens are directly involved in the decision making process. that is what we are doing. that's eva de la blair went them and not many of them either. not many of them. the numbers taking down that are known as natalia the island is, are so small as to by almost irrelevant. i don't know. i don't know. there are, for the moment that are, for the moment, 4000000 people will are on the platform who have got access to the digital platform. the conference in the future of europe. there are $10.10 of several, tens of thousands war on daily basis. debating on the future offer a d,

a european union, and in top of that, that has been in a scientific way, 800 people selected. and all these people have nothing to do with european union to participate in the decision making process. we have seen such err. yeah, what we called citizens convention, already in france, already in ireland, already in germany. but it's for the 1st time that it is organized on a ben european level. and my expectation of this exercise is not to listen to the citizens because we know what the citizens wants. we have the euro barrow meter. we have surveys, like it's in the case also in written note, the big difference is that the citizens are, are selected will continue to participate in not only formulating recommendations, but also in the answers. the politicians will diff, to their wishes and to the recommendations you said to regain people as trust in

democracy. we need to fundamentally revisit the way democracy's work, so they are 4 and with the people instead of that, why not concentrate on result? yes. find a way for $27.00 desperate countries to put together on the major problems that are facing them. something that they have because picking up the fun to do so for what does what? well, for the simple reason that the pressure that can be created by a participation of the citizens will be so huge that i am, i am confident that way you can find 2 ways to break the resistance off of some member states to go forward inside to european union, we need the power of the people, we need the power of the citizens inside this conference to go to barriers, for example, the barrier of unanimity. and secondly, yeah, we need is also this new type of democracy because our liberal democracy,

your liberal democracy, our liberal democracy is on the truck to day on the track from outside european union, china, russia. it's also on the truck inside because of the social media, social media like facebook are in their mining or liberal democracy. so direct involvement of the citizens inside the decision making process of the european union isn't really the good answer. i take a real answer to words. yeah, this degrading the liberal democracy to the social media. as we see today, why is my facebook undermining your liberal democracy? why is that the? is that the i think that's, that's obvious. at least everybody understands that when you go on facebook and you put, i don't know what, for example, chinese communist party, on your facebook,

that for the next 5 or 10 years, you will receive mostly only posts and see posts and messages concerning the chinese communist party anything you put yeah, but if you, you know, they have other things you'll get to play. sorry. let me explain. the algorithm is behind the system of facebook are made in such a way that at the end, people only see what they think and not the counter argument. and that's a very good mother to make profits in the, in us, maybe in united states. but it's a very bad mobile for. ready the plural is in our liberal democracy. let's come back to the e. you. the question is that often raised about accountability among the commission? do you believe that this commission is accountable? how many of its commission has ever get fat once in its history?

once since 958. is there accountability in the commission? no, that's not, that's not true. that's not what you're saying. you're forgot to mention the fact that this parliament at the certain moment has dismissed i who told me a whole commission once and also a commission president in, in the past. that's not true. so that have been many examples of, of that. but it's true that we need to increase the power of this year at the bottom and to make it a real european democracy and the power additional power that is europe and parliament need is power and fixation. that is something we are missing for dom when and the 2nd thing, what we need is the right of initiative for this european parliament to initiate new or proposals. so if you tell me that there is not enough power for european

parliament in controlling the commission and in controlling the council and in developing an emerald policy, you're righteous. we talked earlier about what you called, failing courage among europe's leaders. and in 2018 you went further and you said the union tends to be rather weak in the face of global challenges. that was pretty much the case, wasn't it? when donald trump was president, allowing europe to be lectured like naughty school children about nato funding and who you could trade with and who you couldn't pretty degrading, wasn't it? but yeah, but it's it, it didn't fundamentally changed with bio bided or trump boat or, or criticizing a european union or for that and for good reasons. not because there is not sufficient funding, but because there is not sufficient corporation inside europe, you know, that you'd up is spending is spending more than china on,

on military expenditures. we are spending in europe without even the u. k. 4 times more than the russians on military. the problem on military in europe is not the level of spending. the problem is that we do it $28.00 times $27.00 times now, after the breaks it. and that we definitely, kate, everything. 27 times. we spent more or less 35 percent of the americans are military and we can only do 10 percent of the operations of the american army. what does it mean if you spend 35 percent of the americans and can only do 10 percent of the operations that you're treat to 4 times less f. and that's the consequence of publication. so my plea is that the fastest as possible will create as european defense community as a biller of nate, a european pillar of nato. and that's the real answer to our geopolitical weakness and not spent a little bit more of tax money as we do today. but do you agree that one of the

commissioners, jerry breton said the other day that something is broken in transatlantic relations? and that's neither a reference to trump, nor biden is, is the something that he was talking about temporary or is the trans atlantic alliance coming unstuck? irrespective of who's in the white house, my know what, what, what i see is the absolutely need for a reform of the north atlantic alliance. and why i'm saying that when joe biden is coming a few weeks ago to europe, to the nato summit, he is talking about china. he's talking about china that is in the south pacific. no, that's not the north atlantic. that means that our defense issues to day are not related only to d environment in a north atlantic, but our world wide. and there, there is a need to reform the nato into a global work alliance off democracies. and that on a continental scale,

that means that in the north american continent, the asian continent, european continent has to do a real effort to create defense communities to defend or liberal democracies. so the nato is today still and aligns of individual countries. and what i thing is that we need to trans to tense form it into a real alliance of continental defense communities, defending liberal democracy. you want to reform nato. you want to reform rules inside the european union. you want to change the unanimity rule. you want a lot of reforms and you want a federal, a federal europe at the end of it, a sort of one size fits all. it's what if you don't get any of these reforms the longer the not through the you got that, that you have a complete misunderstanding of what federalism is, because a one fit for all that is not federal, is that the opposite. it's the opposite. you see in the united states of america,

the united states of america, all 50 states with 50 different constitutions with 50 different armies, and so on and so on. so, when i am a, i'm a federalist, that's true. but federalists will meet means that everything, what you can do in the local level, you know, the local have what you can better doing a national level, what you do better on the national level, but where there is an added value on the european level that you have to do on utopia level, and it's the only way for the europeans to defend our interest, all values on in the new world order that is emerging today is emerging that exist already today. that will be a tie where it will be dis, shenise will, will be decided on our standards. what will be decided on our way of life. and the only way to counter that is to organize a federal democratic in diversity. europe in continental european union give a house that has been good to have your own conflicts on. thank you very much.

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