last year they fell significantly during the great lock down in china. they bounced back and grew overall due to cold. the crisis has only given climate change, respite and unprecedented consumption boom is fueling the global economy. and people are driving more to avoid getting him facts on public transport. then there's the pandemic most visible legacy plastic waist high. i'm been for solon, millions of people around the world of taken to wearing mosques to protect themselves, but they're hurting the environment. we'll talk about that and the pandemic carbon footprint in a moment with sir dieter helm. first,

this report the silken islands at the far south west of the territory comprising hong kong, the waters here have long been polluted. but with a pandemic, a new form of waste has turned up masks. and now we have this to contend with. we have the corona virus and all these losses are now working on these images, make me start to wonder how much of a hazard are these masks for our planet? it's an item that many of us now where every day and why do so many of them end up in the ocean instead of being disposed of through the normal channels. and what's the right way to dispose of a mask anyway. my skiing, if it gets way my, whether it's the higher grade respirator masks or the more basic surgical ones or rubber gloves that people are also using. now they all belong in the trash and

aren't suitable for recycling because their medical waste they've been used. so they need to be incinerated, isn't, is unlikely island in us on, but for going to happen. at some stage, you end up with micro plastic. that's what makes the mass span for the environment along the coast of hong kong. scientists are finding a growing number of them. they estimate that around 1500000000 masks entered the see last year. and we need to use a single yes. number one. but then also come sanchez, government and yeah, how they handle their waste management facilities because right here, the garbage bins, the rubbish pins in the street. and they have very wide openings on top. and people just put them austin thinking that during the right thing. and they get blown out very easily, and as soon as they're out there on the street, they go down the drain, they go down the drain slowly, drains lead to the ocean. it looks like masks won't be disappearing our lives any

time soon. there are already far too many in the scene from all let's ask if you can help my professor of economic policy at oxford university in the u. k. he's the author of numerous books and was recently ignited for his services to the environment and energy policy. so the to, we've seen all those used masks and test kits lying around. plastic waste is one obvious environmental impact of this pandemic. what are others? well, you actually write that plastic waste is, is go up quite considerably. and we have to recall that one of the great drivers of each oil demand is plastics. and it just shows how hard it is, tackle that. but lots of other impacts. i suspect the one that's going to be the biggest is the impact of all the fiscal and monetary stimulus is and the extra demand,

the back right around the world. and that i think will be the lasting legacy. all the economic shock of current of ours and the environment will be having impacts as a consequence of economic shop. is there any way around that? i mean, the economists are always telling us to buy more to keep our economy is going to create jobs. do we, or should we hold off? well, you know, some consumption is perfectly consistent with the sustainable economy and some isn't. and the idea that the object should be just a boost g d p, which is a very crude measure of well being ah, is one that charles very badly with some of that unsustainable consumption, which we should be focused on, not just in the carbon context, but also, of course in the biodiversity world you wrote in may 2020 the most important lesson

from the virus so far is that pollution and g d, p are still correlated, not decoupled. do you see changes here? well actually um in a way i was too optimistic with that statement. it turns out that higher g d p and higher environmental impacts. i've been going together and particularly a car but, but what we witness during the crone of ours was a shock contraction of g d p. but without an environmental buns. so although it's true, for example, that carbon emissions went down quite a lot during the lot downs. we still added 2 parts per 1000000 to the concentration of carbon in the atmosphere as we had done for the previous 30 years. and so what we've learned, i think, is that even if you contract ah, demanded the short term g, d, p in the short. so that isn't enough to hold these fundamental at 1st trends in

the way in which our natural environment and our climate are going talking about the climate and our natural environment. this climate crisis is intertwined with biodiversity loss in the spread of zonati. diseases are also intertwined. do you think people really understand that link? i doubt very much whether all the focus on getting carbon emissions down as fully understood the carbon emissions are only half the climate change problem and have to be set in a wider environmental context in the natural environment. so it's not carbon. and we, and the natural environment, emit carbon, secret ration is 50 percent or more of the climate change problem. and you just have to look at what's going on agriculture, the source and so on to see that. and it turns out that secret situation is where

the interaction comes with our diversity and by diversity loss. take the startling fact that the amazon is now a net emitter of carbon. that huge biodiversity bank, ah, hot spot in our world is not only now shedding. it's by diversity as it's a bird, but also at now contributing to climate change. that should be a major wake up call. and it's the sort of thing which requires at least as much focus as the obvious things like, for example, getting out of coal. so what do you think will change people's mind or change behaviors? because you say the amazon should be a wake up call. you think coven 19 would also be a wake up call. but we see it cop 26. the same old problems? yes, i think up $26.00 like the previous $25.00 that made no significant difference adding

to top 1000000 per annum as we have done for the last 30 years, the atmosphere and but i think when people talk about behavioral change, they have to get in mind 2 distinct things that some people who think that we can change human nature, the way we are. and my take is that evolution has brought us to where we are and human nature is roughly the same. ah, tomorrow it was yesterday. and he, most places it remains pretty constant. what we can change is the incentives on us and those incentives so that we make different choices, given our human nature, that's about carbon taxes, carbon pricing, making polluters, pay, integrating the environment into the economy. and sad to say that the cop $26.00 that was butcher no discussion about serious carbon pricing about carbon board pricing, about carbon consumption pricing. these are things confronting you and me as the

ultimate polluters with the costs and consequence of our actions. that's what changes behavior, not some appeal to you know, people have changed their nature going forward because of the experience, the grown of ours. sadly, not there's no evidence whatsoever of that. so the to help from oxford university in the u. k. thank you very much for being on the show today. thank you. and of your question now for our science, corresponded derek williams on the recycling of masks. oh, and boiling use masks and water, clean them of pathogens. oh, like other kinds of personal protective equipment masks, were in really short supply, pretty much everywhere. for months after the pandemic 1st head, lots of people just made their own and the right ways to keep

a multi use masked clean. we're a big issue, a manufacturers have now ramped up production of disposable masks to the point where, at least by german standards, they're plentiful and cheap, but i'm sure there neither and many other places. so here's what the world health organization has to say on cleaning. used masks, multi use fabric masks should be washed at least once a day in soap or detergent and water that's heated to at least 60 degrees celsius. if that isn't possible, then you can also wash the masks and room temperature water 1st, then placed them in boiling water from one minute to get rid of potential pathogens . but what about washing or boiling single use masks? well, i found a few studies looking at whether they can also be decontaminated for further use. and the researchers came to the conclusion that when certain cleaning procedures

were followed correctly, high quality commercial masks remained an effective barrier even after washing. however, both the c d c and the w h o continue to warn that disposable masks should not be washed or reused, but instead thrown away after one use. so the experts there clearly are not yet convinced that it's a good idea. hm. you heard it from derrick, nice to have you along. stay safe and see you again. say, ah, ah, with

who? a conflict with sebastian? at least 27 migrant, the parish in the english channel. will this now force europe to commit to say for

migration policy? uber hofstadter, brussel, member of the european parliament on the former prime minister, belgium, what happened to much value and what performed the conflict. 90 minutes on d w. every journey begins with the 1st step and every language with the 1st word. look. niko is in germany to learn german. ah, why not learn with yourself? it's simple online, on your mobile ad, free. t w's, e learning course. eco speak. german made easy. ah, the green a. do you feel worried about the planet? we to i'm kneel, host of the, on the grievance of cost,

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