and that's because the high school and you are the long time security policy advisor of angle america in the possible also, germany's un ambassador. now you the future ahead of the munich security conference . so when you look towards that board where vasa faces ukraine, how close is europe tore their? well, i know you just mentioned that when i was the diplomatic advisor to transfer america. and of course i lived through the period 20131415. the aggression of russia for the invasion of ukraine by rushers. so when you look at the situation today, you, you know, you remember what happened 8 years ago when the sanction cit then rusher scaled back their, their attacks. you know, we don't want to have this and see that repeated. so what we want this time is to

have this very strong, massive reaction put into the window so to speak. so that russia knows exactly what, what happens if they actually take the step that them put in, you know, indicated they are ready to take. well, we still have no assumptions list yet from the european side. at the same time, we are hearing that britain also the united states are bringing back some of the diplomatic stuff in the ukranian capital key. if we have a political storm across the west. also with the german navy chief stepping down after basically saying that, put in probably deserves respect. so how united is the west at the moment and how much is it believing in itself and its competition? so you could see that when this said what he said, he was saying they basically he was suspended from work at this demonstrates that there is unity in the german government. there's unity in europe. there's unity

with us. i think we are, by the way, we're very happy also with the way our american friends are coordinating this. how much more responsibility does germany have to take left? so it's the top is still sitting on the fence over the issue of no string to he tries to avoid mentioning it also says that everything has to be on the able a germany also doesn't want to send any arms into the region. it's citing historic reasons is germany taking up responsibility here. but germany plays a very important role. we already did last time around when after rusher invaded ukraine. it was transfer america together with president along to get and present person and putting around a table. we see the minsk agreement, we stopped the, the aggression and then you just mentioned correctly that the german trensler has actually said that all the options are on the table,

including the options of north stream. not sprint too. and this is very, very important that we clearly tell the russians that, you know, there is nothing off the table when they actually take the step and, and invade, invade ukraine. again, what's your take on what putin actually one put in you know, you have to deal with put in for a long time. we have seen that in all the post soviet space. we have seen it from georgia. we have seen it in ukraine before last year. in the yellow rose, we seen it a few weeks ago in cut us time. people are very unhappy with the post soviet world . and putting, of course, is afraid that this could also spill over to russia. therefore, he is playing now a very tough game on, on its opposition. it's a very nationalistic course that put in it's driving right now where he

ceases population. when you look at, when you look at the media in russia, on the very nationalistic, this is how put in belief that he can keep his people happy and doesn't have to face opposition as seen in other countries. and this is part of his game is, is very nationalistic policy. and so he has clear intentions there. and this is where i think we have to understand what he tries to achieve. and we have to stay tough and tell him that this is where the buck stops. but at the same time, and this is, i think we did very well as international community. keep all channels open, see to it that we talk and see how also in a faith saving way, he can get out of the where he has maneuvered himself into. so what's his key aim is it to the stabilize europe? is it to destabilize ukraine and recreate soviet styles their influence around

russia? yes, he has said that, you know, the fall of the soviet union was the biggest catastrophe of the 20th century. and he's trying to re establish a kind of a soviet union rusher style. so he's trying to destabilize the repeat union, the countries because he doesn't want to see our models to succeed, because this could give their own citizens an idea that they want to also democratic lives. they want is flourishing. see the society now let's look at all. i saw it, germany knew chancellor, he's done something in relation to china that you as uncle michael's advisor. and the former thompson mack will try to avoid which is to directly address the question where europe stands between the united states and china. he said that europe, germany should not become a billiard for

a between those 2 powers. is that a mistake to even off that question? well, you know, i said earlier than germany plays a very important role. now the question of, of the ukraine country, germany overall, has assumed a more active role in politics. and people are asking for this. we do this when you look at the balkans are very active, you know, that tend to merkel at the libya conference where, and you know, we try to get libya on a democratic way and there's some success in there. we are now more active in this a hill suite. defend a rules based international order. this is our position also towards conflicts that we see with china, you know, we insisting on implementing the rule of law. so it's not that we, those stay with one side or the other, but we insist on the respect for,

for intentional, for the child her, for the universities declaration of human rights. it is our position. how delicate is the balance between economic interests and those rules that you decided? you know, it's, as i said, with regard to russia, it's always very important that you talk, that you keep on trends open that you discuss what is very important, that you don't become too dependent on one country. you have to see that you do 1st, you fi, you have to be clear, you must not be in a situation where you can be blackmailed. so diversification in trade is very important. this also, this also is true for our economy creation ship with china. you mentioned the thought health region. the south region is strategically important for europe also for germany. germany has a large one to send the latree mission that how concerning is the d

stabilisation of molly that we're seeing right now? no, it is. it is very concerning. the room is important for us. it is for, for the population there, it is also with regard to possible flows of refugees and it is a region that is close to europe. so we have to be active there. and i think when you, when you look back over the last years, no germany has never been f active in africa as we are right now in the framework of the g 7 chance tomorrow. launch the compact with africa, where you regular have an important african countries participate in g 7 meeting. so it's very important. why is these? are there right now? what action is just on money? so, but what is very important, and this is for me also. this is one of the conclusions from our engagement in

canada. and this applies also to molly. i think it's important that we are there to help stabilize, but what you need is a partner. you need a national government that also is committed to the rule of law that is committed to build independent institutions. and that is committed also to the rule of law society. if a government is not ready to do that, then it doesn't make sense to, to, to stick there and support that govern militarily because it will in the end, not, not, not succeed. so i'm very much in favor of engagement, but it has to be on the partnership agreement and you have to see that. and one has to recognize that what the partner government does is actually good for the development of that country for the implementation of the sustainable development

goals, which are key for the implementation of good education, strong institutions. if that is not the case, we have to leave the country. and if there is no reliable partner, like enough gone, it's done where nato's us germany left. is it the right step to start diplomatic talks with a regime like the taliban, like they are now taking place in the way? i think that you have in on, when you look at conflict towards white over history, even with partners where you never thought you would talk to if there are some back channel talks, if you are and see how you can resolve issues. and there are problems where, you know, we, we, of course, see how bad the situation is in afghanistan for, for women in part of the country, the unitarian situation. just to say, ok, we will talk to, to you. we will, we will,

we will not engage is not the right way. i think this, this careful way forward. norway, has it tradition in these kind of talks to organize these kind of talks. i think it's something positive. now you are you to take over the head of the munich security conference, how much of an issue will be the perceived weakness of joe biden, back home as he was president, president biden bit like a totally different way from president trump apps in similar ways. president obama is concentrating on the domestic issues and then the u. s. faces a lot of problems and that the u. s. government is focusing on those problems is only legitimate. what is important is that we keep us in gauging foreign policy as an important partner, and i see that happening with the biden administration and in the ukraine christ.

you could see how much they reached out to, to the european so much they tried to coordinate the action and that is something positive. and the munich security conference will be a reflection of this positive development that i see doing that this last week about the cost of high school and for my advisor to i'm going to knock on future head of security conference. thank you very much. it was my pleasure. thank you. ah. with ah,

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