stance now we heard yesterday about reservists being cold up our reporter mathias building a who's had told me that he'd spoken to a young woman who retrained herself. she was a chemist and is now a soldier and it's also just been called up this morning. where does ukraine stand with its forces as opposed to russia? well, certainly we've seen a lot of these efforts by the ukrainians to show that you know, they, they really want to fight that they want to defend their country. and it goes beyond even what you described. vladimir zalinski has been saying that ordinary people can take up arms in the situation that we face. but still, you cannot compare ukraine's forces to russia's forces. russia is a super power with a giant army which has had a huge amount of investment also in the last decade or so. russia is also heavily invested in other parts of its military. it's investing in more in more advanced missiles, in some areas than even the united states. it is

a nuclear stage with more nuclear weapons than any other country, including the united states. so it simply, it, there is, there is no comparison. there is no way that ukraine can defeat this invasion. there's simply no way that so where do you see this going? what can potentially happen, of course, is that whichever point the russians when this 1st part of the victory is possible, that then this develops into a lower level resistance by ukrainians. our washington bureau chief in his pole was just speaking to david, betray us earlier this week, who of course, with the military commander of the u. s. during the iraq war. and he spoke of bitter experience. that is one thing to topple

a government that you don't like. but after that, if you face an insurgency, you might have a big problem on your hands for a long time. and this is one of the reasons why a lot of analysts were skeptical of whether russia really would go this far. because it's one thing to talk to the government. it's one thing to defeat an army . but what then? what if the population simply doesn't accept it? and you face a long term insurgency that could turn into a huge problem for the russians going forward. but it's just too early to say, of course, how the dynamic will develop. but that is something that they will of certainly factored into their calculations. and the just the fact the preacher went ahead despite those sort of concerns that very worrying about his tolerance of risk. is there anything else pertinent that you want to point out on this breaking news today? as far as the invasion of your brain goes?

yeah, well i think person has cost his dice he's, he's gone ahead with the maximum option. now the ball is in the court of the west about where they go in terms of sanctions. we just talked earlier about some of the concerns about how far you ratchet up at this point, especially in areas of energy that could just disrupt western economies. there will also be concern in the west about what if bruton then starts to respond directly to the sanctions. for example, with cyber attacks, we've seen putin very aggressively presumably, and they have been attributed yet, but we've seen repeated cyber attacks against ukraine in recent weeks. very likely, in this, in this scenario, it will be hard to believe that they will not orchestrate, in some way by the russian side. what if the russians start to impose those sort of cyber attacks on the western powers enrich had in direct retaliation for the

sanctions? if that leads to a response by the west in terms of cyber attacks of their own. then you may see this elevate from a war between russia and ukraine to a cyber war between russia and the west. now that may sound not particularly scary because cyber war always sounds like this were in the realm of digits and computers . but that could be highly disruptive, and there are risks that cyber war can escalate into real what they call kinetic war. there are risks that it could even in the very worst case scenario. i do want to scare people here, but in the very worst case scenarios which have been analyzed, we were looking at last year one project here, a d, w, their risk that it could escalate into even nuclear war. so keeping a cyber complex, as just as cyber conflict could be the next level of concern if this escalates to level of cyber. so this is one concern that i would talk about. and then i've just

also just finally throw the light on china and also india. how do these 2 countries, which are so far try to sort of rather awkwardly, remain on the fence in this situation? china because it's very close to russia and pushing back against united states, but it has concerns about issues around territorial integrity and sticking to the un charter. and this is a very clear breach of those things. try to even report to be trying to delay this invasion because it was hosting an olympics. well, there was speculation around whether the timing of the invasion may be related to the olympics. but i would probably downplayed that to some extent. and also india, because it has very close relations with russia. but it is also trying to strengthen relations with united states because it is worried about the threat from china. so you have another level of geopolitics in asia, looking at what's going on here. and i would really watch very closely the language of the chinese and the indians in days moving ahead because if they start to really

sort of edge away from, from a position really bang in the middle, then that could potentially start to get difficult. vladimir putin, that could be something that could nudge him in one direction or another. so yeah, a lot of things to watch a lot of elements, a complex situation as you hear that from sheep international editor, richard booker. thank you very much. and let me bring you up to date. now. russia invading ukraine. today, the president of russia, vladimir putin, ordering an all out air and ground was sold on its neighbor. the russian military is targeting installations across the country. officials, moscow is attacking from 3 sides. the north east and south c c t. v footage has recorded brushing military personnel moving across the border from crimea. ukraine says its army is fighting back. civilians are trying to flee in some places as reports of casualties start to come in western nations or expressing outrage of the offensive and say most go will pay

a heavy price will. earlier we spoke to tyson barker of the german council on foreign relations about what new sanctions might be placed on russia. and we will see a proportionate massive escalation of, of retaliatory sanctions and cost actions, which will affect the financial sector, the energy sector, the technology sector, and the individuals that have propped up the system. those include, you know, the, the kind of, you know, grey cardinals that surround him that have enriched themselves and try to move money out of the country in the past years. and, and i think this is a big change. their children, children, wives, family members, those who have served as kind of mules to get money out of the country and to live . you know, the kind of western lives that they denied to the russian people. i only spoke with artist suffix, the defense minister of land via his his assessment of the situation in ukraine

this morning. well in last year in congress to regain both the countries of course, all our hearts and minds are ukrainians. because we understand very much well during, during now, because what we know is that russians are attacking ukraine from 3 sides, which means from the land side of russian green border from sea side complexities, as well as our cautions from the russian side seems to be a russian over at the area. additionally, the nose is that also diversion groups and it was a ukraine. and of course we all know that the russians are bumping cities because it is different sides of miss l systems. so this is what we know. we also are looking forward very much to the discussions in nato and european union about next steps should be taken because unfortunately,

our now assistant of the countries in poland and sweden and also in washington appear to be very correct. and at this moment, we have only one trust. first, we must start immediately and massive sanctions against the aggressor state russia . secondly, we must provide ukrainian army and you, brilliant population is massive aid. so as they can prevail, this is only way or we can still say that you know, that blood of ukrainians will not be also in our hands because our duty or moral duty is to assist discriminatory and aid lita lake. and i hope it's finally also those people which we call fish or piece are still finally understand how wrong they have been in their assessments of all crumbling minister. you say ukraine is being attacked from 3 sides,

which underscores the reports where coming that are coming into us and from our correspondence people on the ground. how would you then describe this invasion by russia? is it an attack on the east, or is it intac on ukraine as a whole? it's attack or you can also call. it's very obvious. there is a pull information available because both things are going also as far as the very best and border of ukraine. so simply, machine and russia trying to cleans all nice. and this is also a very, very important question for all of us which are observing knowledge met for by families. and you say that full sanctions and needed, are we going to get those full sanctions from the you as well as its partners? well, spot us, it depends on our government and our position. we are ready to do anything to stop

this aggressor and i hope that governments, in berlin and paris london just the same because it is a doctor and the price, if you will rise every hour and every day. are you ready to pay that? i no, i wouldn't be that special minister. you also said the 2nd thing that's important is providing a to ukraine is you crank, getting enough support from, for example, germany and i don't think that can be too much support to ukraine. just like said con to be too much of sanctions, and i would once more use john. so for a field german society lease open, your eyes least also allow your green into to receive elite a late because situation is totally different than it was before. and germany is the largest european country. it's time to act for you now because from you a lot,

what's your message to the ukranian people we've heard from the president saying to not panic. and from out correspondence in kiev, who was saying, it's best to stay put right now and not mobilize, not be on the streets. what's your message to the people that well, it's very difficult to give an advice then you are not the ukrainian yourself at this moment. but of course, we see that you gradient trust the country and zara brave people, and we keep fingers crossed, that you will prevail, you will endure, and you will be capable to defend your freedoms. and us, much in defiance from such countries as mine and probably many others we will do as much as possible. and the right thing always been and the right side is on your side. but actually i have not only message for your convenience i was right. really

would like to feel. so a leadership and so are you really, the russian soldiers already feel your sla level on the browser? your greeting and just because somebody is sending you the 30 wrong thing, you are not defending russia. you have to simply defending an aggressor. there are so many people on both sides of the border with family and friends in ukraine in russia. a very putting a message there from that is defense minutes, not as operates. thank you very much for being on the show. and let's bring in the w's chief international editor, richard walker for the situation. there are some interesting views there to pick up on the issue of nature. and the concern in the baltics is that a real concern the people of the baltics a so close to all of this. we see troops,

russian troops along the borders building up there of the past few days. and now this attack, when you play, it is a concern for the both take state. so if you remember the geography, the baltic states are at the sort of north western end of russia close to st. petersburg there. they boarded 2 bellows southward, so they're very close to everything that's happening here. these countries are among the former members, what they used to be part of the soviet union. they became independent and also the break of the soviet union. and then earlier this century then they, they joined nature and they joined nature because they were concerned about russia's behavior. and if they didn't become members of this western alliance that something like this might happen to them. one day ukraine didn't join and to ukraine's desire to join nato is part of the picture of

the consolation of this crisis. vladimir putin wanting to prevent that. the fact that this is happening now very well explains why ukraine so wanted to join nature, because if they had been in nature, this would have been much less likely to happen. and the reason for that is that nature is underpinned by what's called article 5. so in, in the founding documents later, article 5 is a promise that an attack on one member of nature is regarded by all of the members of nato as an attack on all of them. and that they then come to that countries 8. this is the promise that the baltic states and now holding on to when they look at what's going on here and thinking ok, good thing. we're in nature. we have this promise to defend us. and this will deter russians from, from mounting any kind of similar action.