he behaved exactly like said darcy and the poison spread. bedrooms ah, much missouri with the great documentary series destruction of a nation starts march 4th on d, w. the crisis surrounding rushes, invasion of ukraine suddenly seems even more frightening than before. and people have begun to think the unthinkable. this is russian president vladimir putin threatened to the world at large, suggesting perhaps that he could be ready to use nuclear weapons. it's a move that is triggered. widespread fee is unparalleled since the cold war. so the question we're asking here on to the point is put in threat. he's russia ready to

use the nuclear option with and to discuss that question i'm joined to by terry shows. she is security and defense specialist, with deutsch, vela and brussels. welcome to you. also with us is another d w colleague flooded me. jesse paul from our russia desk had joined us from london and a warm welcome to to mount to laming. who's with me here in the studio? he's with the berlin daily newspaper, the talker speaker, amongst let me begin with you and let him in to put into announcement that he is putting nuclear forces on high alert. the debate must be that he is willing to use the nuclear auction. is that, or it seems to you? not really. i mean it's, it's, it's always hard to tell what is what is in the mind in the head of vladimir putin but. but if his really willing to do it, or if it's more aiming at the nerve costume of the west,

trying to spread fear and try to dis, unify the astonishingly unified western block. i think this is more or less what he's aiming f r. he did the same in 2014 and it's, i think it's the 2nd grade of a 4 grade alert system. so it's not the highest alert but, but on the alert. and he's reminding us in but us, i mean the west that we're dealing with the country not like of gornstein or iraq, but a nuclear power. and it's what we do. ok. her territory shots in per brussels, vitamin 14 is already use similar language in recent days. do you see that from or where you are as, as a threat to our well being in the immediate future? well, certainly peter, what nato says is simply that no one knows what's in vladimir putin's mind. and so they have to be ready for everything. and this is what nato was created to do, to alert of every defense that it has possible among its 30 allies just in case.

and i think that they've been very reluctant to make predictions about about what vladimir putin will do. what they say is they have to be ready for everything he can do. and now of course we've seen what he can do on the ground in ukraine flooding me. what's your take of what's going on inside blood flooding and putins head at this point in time. it's still the guessing game that we've been involved in for days now. working though now it's i think it's amazing for us like 22 weeks ago or one week ago i became it became ingratitude on the very fast speed . so i would not surprised if arrested it will go on for a nuclear option, especially europe saying, shut down a c for taking out the russell banks is a nuclear option in terms of sanctions, or just serving friends and friends, a reminder to europe on the whole lot the just has a nuclear option as well. so i will not surprised to what extent tony made you

think to the russian leaders letting me put it is, is now acutely isolated and has a growing sense of the, of his own isolation. he seems to be quietly related and then there is to be appearances, but the question is, shift information on the less and how much information from outside outside for you getting to this in a circle. so once again i'm, i'm, i'm having depression that it's all out war from the russian side, against the best against america, against the united states in the european union. and this collision is very fast. and there are some russian scientists was always very, very pretty. and this kind of a response to it for their flight if the western imposed that sanction from russia, russia answering literally the same, same kind of sanctions to work to worse. so the stakes are very high right now. and

once again switched to the nuclear options are broke, this kind of response to from the russian side. in my opinion. ok, let's say, let's say let's have a close listen to what exactly are the russian lead of that in a protein had to say what we've been talking about here. and then we'll go back to terry in brussels to get a further assessment on where this statement leaves us was really, really, it really did not only are western countries taking unfriendly economic steps against our country do with that, i mean, the illegal sanctions that everyone knows about very well, but the top officials of leading nato countries, those are also making aggressive statements about our country he received. therefore, i order the minister of defense and the chief of the general staff. but to put the deterrent forces of the russian military. because women to a special mode of combat duty bdc.

it's a very interesting phrase, a special mode of combat duty. just explain to us a little bit about what the mouth has already referred to as the technicalities behind this process. this for stage process that we have i don't think anyone knows exactly what vladimir putin means by this because we are in uncharted territory as you've said. but again, what nato has to do, and what it's nuclear armed allies have to do is be ready for anything. now it's quite interesting that at this moment as we are here on the show, there has not been a special meeting called as far as i'm told. and i have checked with my sources to discuss specifically this nuclear talk from, from the kremlin. but at the same time, everything is always on high alert at nato, certainly in the, in recent weeks and days. and so they have this nuclear planning group that is

always kept abreast of, of all of the threats throughout the world. and looks at what nato would do as a nuclear armed alliance with this, as it's, you know, last stop option for defending the alliance. and everyone inside nato knows what it would do in case of, of a nuclear attack. ok, let's you don't know exactly what that would be. ok. let's move away from the nuclear option to both conventional warfare. very so sudden. so i'm going to get from lots of different sources that vladimir putin house, perhaps overreached himself in the operation so far. but they're not going is work as well as he might have expected. and that obviously has a no contract. what are you hearing were, were you all, are nato headquarters about we have had intel briefings on, on the side of from western intelligence officials. and the 1st night was quite dire. in the 1st 24 hours, we were told that kia could fall within a day that russia was controlling the air space,

had taken over key airports in air field. but by the 2nd day that had completely changed and the ukrainians were fighting back better than anyone had expected. and, and you know, everyone was, was praising the bravery of, of the ukrainian not just armed forces, but civilians in fighting back. and so everyone thought maybe this won't be so easy, president putin will not be able to just walk in and take ukraine. and then you've seen this outflow of further weapons and contributions from, from allied states to ukraine, more lethal weapons. look at this, he be sending weapons directly. it will allow other countries that are holding german made weapons to also ship them to ukraine. and this is something that germany had been holding up. so this, this crisis in ukraine has really shifted the minds of any reluctant allies to help ukraine. again, there will be no western boots on the ground, but everything they can do to help ukraine fight for itself. they're doing real the same them, there is no sign. so for us both tracking numbers, offenses, missouri,

some on the ground in their grants or we don't know how there are some react. it's true that this is often if it's not that greek and it's not as successful as are probably russian for russian minister of defense the russian army during aust stockwell sir planning. but at the same time, there was no sounds of process going back or stopping the forces for the orphans if on the ground. this continued, there's more russian troops entering the ukraine as far as i see from the russian sources and these, nor signs of any, any says fire as far as you know. ok, let's, let's, let's, he will melt. as to say is it is vladimir putin making headway in the way he would hope or not very much depends on where. now it's the 1st banking day in moscow and in russia today. because i think many russians start right now to feel that their country is at war. and if they what's the state television and, and here the state news and so on. so on, they were just, i mean,

not on the same information level as we are in the west. so it very much depends on the how the, how the public in russia will react to, for example, not being able to go to the bank and just take the money out and to all the guys who are losing money and so on and so on. so the reaction of the sanctions that were that were imposed of russia are, is feeding them right now. your, your news phobia today my to had to had some very interesting lines on this about the credibility of, or of letting me put it in the eyes of ordinary russians. if you so will. i mean, you have you carried lines like who believes in vladimir putting, putting support, crumbling oh yeah, support, crumbling. i think his is is a devastating line for letting me put in for the estimation of his credibility a day. i can't predict how the, how the, how the, how the public in russia is reacting to the news of war that they are really at war . the sons are and war and a dying in ukraine, which is supposedly

a brothers and sisters saw one. they are fighting to so i can't predict what is happening on, but i would say just to, just to see any kind of diplomacy are up coin to are not talking to vladimir putin might be a mistake. we still have to find a way, even though we hate him, even though we are disgusted. and even though all these things i really feel about are you have to do with him. it might be just to wait until he is toppled. might prolonged us more for weeks and months to come in and let him know when we talk about these kind of setbacks with the there's also been setbacks that to the very me put in his how did the at the security council or the backing from the chinese that he might have anticipated would be much more positive. he's not getting that either. so that is a, that is a diplomatic setback to matter. if you look back for the 22 years of

wedding or pushing being empowered in russia, he's the current political career began with the warranty now. and it was a very both, all of our 3rd floor and thrusting russian forces are very, very brutal and suppressing this uprising in touch. now then we had this level on syrian operation of the russians will pitch is quite very brutal as well. it was very both developed and now we have for us and things approach and key if in, in the large numbers in different nations minister it communicated to tomorrow today. sorry, in the morning for the citizens of key to leave the c t basically which could be assigned could be assigned of the ration because kale minute, a military operation on, on the city of key. if so, i would not expect much room to negotiate for food and i don't see any in your own for the plumber left. it's like it's a war terry, how is that?

how is know to likely to, to respond to that kind of talk that we've now got the, the large numbers of tanks moving pope perhaps towards care for the, and a really serious threat of, of an aggravation of the tensions and the conflict. he just to return to the issue of diplomacy. i asked secretary general suttonberg directly. will you still talk to vladimir putin after this invasion? and he did not say that he was revoking his invitation to talk to the russians any time i think that they're going to leave open the option, the only reasonable option for ending the conflict of dialogue. and you'll also note that the european union in the sanctions, it placed directly on president putin and on foreign minister lab rav. it did not impose a trouble ban on them because they want them to be able to come and talk. they want people to be able to go and talk to them. nobody thinks that there's a military solution to this crisis, and that's still the predominant line. but i think you have nato allies meeting now

constantly in at 30 well 30 allies around the table talking about what more they can do to help ukraine. short of course of boots on the ground, but you see more equipment pouring in. you see more aid. you see humanitarian aid. poland has offered to be a hub for both nato and the european union because you can no longer fly supplies in. so poland is really stepped up and taken the lead in transporting this, this equipment, these additional supplies of all kinds across the border. because that's the only way people see that is able to get to supplementary materials to the ukrainians at this point and go yes, or maybe it should be edit and maybe you agree or not to orient blood of me. i think vladimir putin is not interested to talk to the you or to nato or no house for him. is joe by the who is president, he's, he's looking for summit that gives the whole world the impression he goes and i and equal to,

to the american president. and so this could be the last thing that could be offered to him, not now, not today or tomorrow, but maybe the next weeks or to come what role the americans playing at this point in time, terry's a little bit unclear to us for from the perspective of the european theater i think i personally was watching yesterday after this renewed talk of nuclear options to see if, if you would see president bite and come out and make it, make it some kind of address and, and he didn't. and so i think that the, i mean, back in washington, they're very much watching every step and trying to calculate where they can best use their weight. i mean, remember this entire campaign, this build up, the americans surprised everyone with how transparent they were with their intelligence. not just to nato allies in closed session, but openly speaking from the white house podium about what they.