discover the world around you. ah ah, subscribe to the w documentary on youtube. with russian forces continue their advance on the ukrainian capital, t of and other key cities. the onslaught has had an unexpected side effect. vladimir proteins, war seems to be uniting and often divided world. in new york, the un general assembly overwhelmingly condemned the brutal on slot a slew of companies have closed down operations in russia, or divested themselves of russian related holdings with harsh sanctions in place. joe biden says proteins more isolated than ever. on to the point,

we're asking pariah protein, isolated and angry with . welcome to to the point. it's a pleasure to greet our guests. jessica berlin is a german american expert on geo politics, founder and managing director of the consultant, sea coast. struct. krista fun mar. show is diplomatic correspondent for bar then leading daily death, hawkish, beagle. and it's a pleasure to welcome our colleague from a d. w's russian desk. a roman gotcha ranko. originally from ukraine. he joins us now via skype, from the border between ukraine and romania and roman as i understand it, you are there to try to help your family leave ukraine. so tell us what you and

they are experiencing at the moment. well, yes, yeah, i am sitting in a hotel romanian, ukrainian border, waiting for my family to come over. i have a lot of relatives in ukraine and all of them to come to germany, but only my mother and my brother's family actually ventured to leave the city. they were all afraid. most of them are elderly people and also families goes with children, are very hesitant because they said it's dangerous to be on the road. and which is true. it's a very long distance, some 5 to 7, maybe 800 kilometers. they have to drive and it takes days to come. so my family spend 3 days to come here yesterday. it was thursday and i was just driving for 15 hours. you can imagine with kids and my mother is not,

it is not in a condition where she can manage long distances, but still she's coming and i do hope that she will be able to come to romania and then i'll bring her to germany. but the rest of my family is staying there, some of them in. if i had a very emotional talk with my aunt and she's living outside here and her family was torn apart. some part of they were planning to leave on 2 cars and a one car managed to get away and her car with her daughter and some other kids was in circles. so they are staying in their home, sleeping in the basement, and very terrified. how long do you think that the ukrainian force is defending a key of other cities as well, but particularly the capital can hold out? well, i don't know. i think that they could hold out for weeks maybe months because the spirit is very, very strong. but we don't know how russia would react,

and i think russia would probably try to use both. during the siege. i mean, heavy bombardments and trying to cut off electricity, food supplies, things like that. so it does look terrible for you for the coming weeks. i think and just one other question, what awaits your family at the border? what conditions they're like. i've just heard from one of my own relatives who left ukraine via the polish border. that there was a terrible press of people, almost almost a kind of a mob atmosphere people desperately trying to get across. well, poland is the main route, ukrainians are taking. so that's why we decided to take the south and rolled over a manual dog. we don't know yet exactly how they will come, but here is the situation more or less under control i would say, especially on the romanian border where i am. so i've heard

a lot of all the reports that remain police and other other services are very, very helpful. thank you so much. we'll be right back to you where with, with some more questions in just a moment. but let me go now to christa christa, one manifestation of this surprising unity that i referred to earlier is the amazing reception that has been given to the refugees who are streaming out of ukraine. already a 1000000, a displaced people, including by countries that had shut their borders in 2015. and i'm thinking especially as we saw, of course, syria and afghanistan, refugees entering europe. and i'm thinking in particular of hungary, victor or bonds, hungary, or about known to have friendly relations with put in. do you think that in the wake of what we're seeing in ukraine, mister or bon, may be reconsidering his attempt to maintain those friendly relations and perhaps

looking at more solidly joining the rest of the members? or is this a temporary unity? i think it's somewhere between i think there's a misunderstanding. what's the position of countries like hungary and poland was in 2015? and since we misunderstood what they meant, then we now try to understand it in terms of the time poland and hungary were never s center phobic. if they were put treat in western europe, especially in germany, it is, it is also, if you look to refugee law, it is a difference was a people are coming over 1000 of kilometers, going through a lot of countries where they would be secure, but decide to go on further for economic reasons and that is a good reason. i don't say they should do that, but it's a difference whether they're coming. they are coming people from your neighboring country where it's war and you are the 1st place where they can be secure. then you

welcome them in different way in comparison, when you have to feeling well, they could have been sick or some worlds, but they're nevertheless, coming, said was the misunderstanding in 2015 in germany. and i don't want to defend people like catching ski or, or bomb, but we shouldn't take is literate liter. yeah, we shouldn't exaggerate for it on or ben. do you think we will see a new solid you unity with him. he, as you know, of course, has been not a little or no, no, not solid. it will be, i think everybody, everybody has now a little bit see, getting in that, that we need solidarity. and if, if you divide the west or do you the white european union, it will be to your disadvantage before the war. there was a feeling, you know, i can get my personal advantage even if i am not solitary or with the rest of the union. and i think this is, this has passed. let me go to add jessica,

and in her address to this special meeting of the united nations general assembly this week, jessica, german foreign minister and alina barbara said the following, and i quote, russia's war marks the dawn of a new era. it's a watershed moment. it requires each and every one of us to take a firm and responsible decision and take a side. are we seeing an iron curtain, a new iron curtain go down across europe? take aside? well, this is truly a turning points in german and in european history. what we've seen from this new government, the statements from chancellor shaw, it's last weekend and from minutes to book at the un, this shows a complete shift in our entire foreign policy and security policy. what they're not doing is trying to divide europe. on the contrary, this is a call for unity between democratic partners in europe. what russia has done,

let me put it like this. no country in europe has no great power. nato has tried more than germany to maintain those close ties with russia. in fact, germany has been starkly criticized for months for not taking a harder line. so this is definitely not a call for a new iron curtain. on the contrary, germany wanted to negotiate this phrase, the log provide shaft, the readiness for dialogue that minister babcock was constantly stating in the past weeks has come back to haunt her. and her statement of the un showed that germany has read the writing on the wall. they are serious about not just pursuing dialogue, but taking action. if putin is the anti hero of the current crisis, ukraine's president is his opposite number. delivering emotional appeals that are rallying support, both at home and abroad. ah, she got a warning to all of you. ukrainians, lea, a lot of fake information appears now on the net alleging i'm calling on our army

to surrender, and there are evacuations. i am here. we will not quit our resistance even. we will defend our country, because our weapons are the truth, our truth and the fact this is our land, our country, and our children, and we will defend all this. that's all. this is all i wanted to tell you. the capital key, anything the whole country is under fire from russian forces amidst it all, a ukrainian president who addresses his people and that european union, almost daily, via video message, the board of us. we are fighting for our rights for our freedoms, for life, for our life. the now we are fighting for survival. it's and this is our main motivation. ali baba, we are fighting also to be equal members of europe. linda. you probably

a political novice and a well known actor zelinski came to power 3 years ago to day in the middle of the war. there, the lawyer from a jewish family has become a leading figure. does he have what it takes to become an icon of freedom with ya? and let me put that question too. well, man roman would you have thought, let's say, months ago that president lensky would wind up being this kind of figure would wind up playing this kind of role. and i'm also curious what your family and others in ukraine are saying about him. well absolutely it's, it's a very interesting transformation that zaleski was, was a controversial figure among ukrainians who call themselves patriots. so the former president, petro shinkel, was criticizing him, partially for not doing enough against the russian aggression. and he was very

controversial and i remember just a few weeks ago, he was also criticized or trying to go after pershing go to trying to put him on trial, things like that. and for preparing enough for the russian aggression. this is all forgot. now he's he, he's a real hero now, and not only in ukraine, but also a broad. i managed to meet him at munich security conference just a few days ago. and he made a very good impression. he made a very good speech, very strong. he's from an actor, he knows how to talk to the public, but he can manage to find the right words. i think this is he's, he's for number one strengths to find the right words at the right moment. and ukrainians have relatives around him. his critics as well. and this is a very astonishing development and roman, what do you think is likely to be present it to landscape fate?

well, i hope this arrives and he will probably have to leave the keys or sometime late. i don't know, but it looks very much like that, but for the moment he has chosen to stay just like millions of ukrainians as well. and just like the mayor of ski, of the former books, walton vitale. political, which is also an example of astonishing courage. both political and zalinski and our heroes here in ukraine. they wrote before. ready but that admiration for them has grown much, much stronger, and this is a very good example for all ukrainians will stay and he'll fight again, christopher, not least in those rooms in response to those very emotional appeals from presidents, zalinski, western countries are now doing themselves with offers as weapons and military support to ukraine. we're also seeing a number of e u countries calling for fast tracked

e u membership for ukraine. do you think all of that is likely to deter, put in or provoking? first of all, the unity is not as big as it seems from the outside. first of all, germany was not ready to deliver weapons for the now it earth on limit occur. okay . yes, now they're doing something and that's where the lens is asking for more and certainly we are not sending texts. nato could close the space over you green, but we all know that they won't do that, although it would make a huge difference. but then of course, there's a risk that would mean world war 3 if nader would get engaged with russian forces. so yeah, and if you look at this fast track membership already very important country spoke out against it, germany, france, the netherlands. so if, if people asking too much, then it rather with the west or z, u, as long as you are on

a certain level, which might not be enough, but everyone can agree on. it looks like unity. but if you go further than the unity is not so reliable anymore, so i'm a little bit cautious about and you asked about putting will he be convinced? i think pooty lives in his own world and what news gets to him and to his head. we don't know about that. he is surrounded now by almost 20th by yes. so years and people who are not challenging him. so i don't say that he is crazy. i would never use those words. i think he is a rational, but he is rational in his own world. and the world in which vladimir putin is rational, might not be the real world. and that makes it dangerous. so if he gets all these signals of unity of the west, or whether he's still things, you know, the west to stick them in the n, c won't do anything which really hurt them. that we don't know the testers out. just the i want to get you or your comment also on the offers of weapons support

and i wonder how surprised you were to hear even you commission president ursula funder lion for the 1st time offering weapons and military support to the tune of 500000000 euros, not a paltry about is that helpful or does it risk actually importing the conflict into the you? this conflict? it's already a european conflict. let's declare. and the threat of world war 3, the threat of nuclear war that we face, we face it with or without nato action on setting up a no fly zone. this is an incredibly voltage, dangerous situation. and b, e u, 1st and foremost, made the right decision to support president lensky and answer his call for, for military aid on this to not do so. would have been to basically put the nail in the coffin of the ukrainian resistance to this invasion. however, i'm to,

to your points around the threat of war with russia directly. there are many people right now in eastern europe and in the baltic states, we're already saying, if we don't take more action, now, this won't stop with ukraine. all right. vladimir putin in his own logic and his in whatever reality he's currently occupying. he sees the former soviet union as something that needs to be reclaimed and re put together. and this will not stop with ukraine just like it didn't stop with georgia. it didn't stop with korea. all right. we need to start believing what he says. and certainly, you know, the french president, amanda, went back cause had much the same to say after speaking with that in a protein this week and hearing putting, tell him essentially that he plans to go all the way. let me go back to rome and to find out whether you think the weapons deliveries to ukraine are in fact

getting there in time and whether they will make a difference. well, that certainly will make a difference. they already are because we see that ukrainian armed forces are able to stop russia military, all columns with the help of those javelin and tank missiles for loss from u k. so they are very, very important in germany delivering them. of course it comes to late, but well, i wouldn't say it's a game changer, but it is a significant force that russia didn't reckon with. i think when they were planning this operation. so it was good to the west. first of all, united states and united kingdom, deliver those, those weapons in the weeks prior to the assault. let me make, make one more point about what you've just been discussing about putting plans

which go beyond ukraine. i totally agree with that. and there is one thing that i'm, i'm thinking these days and everything we see, we see in ukraine happening now, this war all out war that most of us were not thinking about and go thinking, well that's, that's the good that is not possible. this is something that they have been discussing on russian stage t v for years in very, very exec, the same details that we are facing in reality. now. those discussions on talk shows in on russian to be what ignored in the west. we thought it was crazy, but it was not. so i think we have finally to take seriously what russians are saying and what they are discussing because they used the 8 years after the annexation of crimea. to prepare the publican rush up to prepare the russian.

people that such an aggression against the graeme is possible that it is possible to divide ukraine and it is possible to go nuclear to, ah, western europe or eastern europe so much. so we are just russian states, tv, about, or nuclear strikes against poland or against the baltic states. so we have to consider that roman we are hearing about increasing disillusion within russia. we hear about protests. we hear about pushback, for example, from the board of the luke oil oil company, surprisingly enough. will any of that make a difference briefly if you would, i think, yes, i'm hearing the reports from russia. that makes me think russia probably underestimated how quick the response from the west will be on the economic front and how heavy it will hit russia because there are only already. ready shortages of

spare foss shortages on medicine and the russians are really shocked at western companies, are leaving russia. i think they didn't consider that. let me quickly a come back to the topic of western unity and solidarity and bring in a, a excerpt from president biden's state of the union speech this week. many people feel that the ukraine conflict has reset the button on transit land unity in a way that few would have believed possible. just a year ago, put reddish attack on ukraine was premeditated and totally unprovoked. he rejected repeated repeated efforts at diplomacy. he thought the worst of nato wouldn't respond. he thought i could divide it at home in this chamber in this nation. he thought he could divide us in europe as well,

but put in was wrong. we are ready, we are united, and that's what we did. we stayed united, we prepared extensively and carefully. we spent months building coalitions of other free de la nations, in europe, and america for america to the asian and african continents. to confront potent, like many of you, i spent countless hours unifying your european allies. we shared with the world in advance, what we knew put was planning and precisely how we would try to falsify and justify his aggression kristof. let me ask you about an hour. so here, the durability of this transit, landtech unity are both biden and the secretary general of nato. have said, listen, mr. putting, if you think you're gonna get less nato by prosecuting this war against ukraine, you're wrong. you're going to get more nato. and we've heard a lot from nato,

about how they are showing up the defenses of the most vulnerable member states. for example, the baltic republics, realistically, how defensible are in the baltic republics? how strongly i can nieto, in fact, act to help them. well, that is a weak point on our eastern flank and we, we should be all ready now. be very grateful to the ukrainians for their resistance, because it buys us time to enforce or nato present in the baltic states. if you look at the map, there's a very small corridor which connects poland to the baltic states. it's just 60 kilometers white. on the western side is colleen and got a lot of military russian presence on the other side is some side is b, i was which is also a state where you have russian military on the ground. and if the russians would be able to cut into that corridor and to cut it off, then it would be almost impossible to defense,

the baltic states and the western we will be tested. what we see now is not the real test. we will be tested in the next weeks because if, if putting decides to a tech support exceeds our, the western response or threat was always, you might occupy the territory. but nato is 15 times the resources you have in russia, russia, 3 percent of the world economy. the west is over 40 percent. so we can come back with superior forces and take it away from you and what has been put in since. ok, then i will sent a nuclear missile nuclear missile to berlin or to hm. book, what will the german society then to will be ready to, to say, well, you can't and to nuclear war right now, we don't believe that you will do that. we will stand up anyway, and i'm not so sure how we will respond to these kinds of tests which are coming. we shouldn't be so sure that this is just you creed, wait any stuff. i'm sorry,

we're almost out of time. i want to just get back to our title if i may and ask how isolated protein truly is with the request for a short answer. he's got china on his side. there are a whole host to states who abstained on that general assembly resolution supporting ukraine. so how long can you hold out? how much support does he have briefly? the number one question is, how much support does he have in the kremlin? he is incredibly isolated. we see the pictures of him at the table, he's literally sitting there alone. the question is, can the russian security forces step in and help isolate him further and remove him from power roman, what do you think about that is pooty and feeling isolated or is realistically, is the isolated or empowered? i think what unfortunately bad sound there. i'm afraid roman try one more time. i think he's isolated but this is what he wanted. thank you very much for that contribution and

those last words for this show and thank you to all of you for joining and see you again soon. ah ah ah ah. with

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ah ah, this is d w and use live from the ukraine cities besieged and bombarded as russian forces keep up with their attacks. of toppling and houses are destroyed even as moscow denies targeting civilians. mobile homes have fallen in keith. maria pole is surrounded and russians are in control of our song coming up, brushing forces, attack and seas, ukraine's largest nuclear power plant. atomic observe is say there's been.