need to bring some sankoh to the public, proceeds from ticket sales will go to 2 major ukrainian charities to help with brewer relief efforts. ah, and you're up to date here on t w. remember, you can get around the clock coverage of the war and ukraine on our website, t w dot comp. i'm jarrett great, thanks for watching. they've had no peace 40 for decades. people of iraq country is devastated and there's no end to violence. how did it come to this group? this is revealed and unprecedented story. he

behaved exactly like a gun and the poison spread barrels, misery, misery, nor life. the great documentary series iraq destruction of a nation. this week on d. w. we've come here today to speak to christ of high school in berlin for many years. he was uncle mac hole foreign policy advisor. he was also germany's ambassador to the united nation. so he's german, one of germany's most senior diplomats and he's now the chairman of the prestigious unique security conference ambassador i can, thanks for joining d w. i want to start by talking about the diplomatic efforts that we see on going at the moment between russia and ukraine. we are beginning to see the possible controls of some kind of agreement involving neutrality of ukraine. ukraine

receiving a security guarantees from outside guarantors. do you feel? this is the kind of agreement that could bring an end to this war. i have a fundamental problem and that is that and over the years they have been many agreements reached with rusher. i remind you of so called budapest memorandum in 94 where russia guaranteed the sovereignty and territory integrity of ukraine and ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. i recall the minsk agreement where, which was concluded after last time, russia invaded ukraine. it was an agreement which said that there should be a cease fire and they should withdraw their heavy weapons and the monitors should be allowed to actually have you know, of their free way through all of the done both and rusher. didn't observe any of this. so my problem is that to agree with russia today, it's very difficult because russia and to put in has lost all credibility. nobody

trusts that russia with actually then implement an agreement it entered into and yet put in is in power. this is the person who's lensky is having to deal with a lot of myths. lensky, the ukranian president. what choice does he have? but to negotiate? no, he doesn't have a choice. i just tell you what i think is the outcome you cannot rely on this. of course students q has to, he has to see to it that he gets a ceasefire. he has to see to it that put him stop to bomb civilians, start to commit war crimes. now, if vladimir putin does go down this road with an agreement of this type, this falls well short of the war aims that he seemed to be professing at the beginning of this war. and those famous speeches he made. it made it sound like he had no respect for ukraine as a sovereign state, and that he century wanted to effect regime change there. so what should we understand from the fact that he seems to be considering an agreement like this?

does it mean that he feels he's losing and yes, i think that he sees that what, you know, he build up in his fantasy about the ukraine, that is very pro russian where you have a so we don't government there and there is no and ukrainian identity he realizes that everything he thought ukraine would be if it's not, it's not true, but, and so he's on the defensive. so i think he has a certain interest in maybe coming to a, to a stop because they are losing hundreds or thousands of soldiers. but we must not forget, you cannot trust, put in so he may then agree to something, but then he will regroup and try again to to achieve, you have to understand what is real again is what is if he is afraid that in russia, something happens that has happened in other countries in the neighborhood that is,

that countries that, that the population is sick and tired of this post soviet audi garcia, society. and he's afraid that this may happen in russia as well. so therefore, you have to stop all of this and for him, a successful ukraine, ukraine that has a prosperous industry, prefers economy where you have democracy and all this. this may be a nightmare for him because people in russia will ask how about us. and therefore, he cannot allow ukraine to succeed. and now he sees that all. what is what he has been aiming for is it's crumbling. we can do putin. i mean, there's been some speculation about whether that could be a sort of pallet coup against him in russia. do you think that is something that is a realistic prospect at the moment? i cannot, you know, i have no idea how this is. everybody says, well, you know, in rusher this was under this ours and under styling they could do with their population what they wanted to. so there is no danger for the ruler. on the other

hand, we see, you know, on russian television, we see in the main news, there isn't somebody standing up for the journalist and, and this sees that the people are become much more courageous. it's wonderful what you have from these young people that they risk like not any, you know, they risk go into prison because they want another rusher. so i think putting it in, in serious problems. how serious i cannot tell you how concerned are you admitted this? a speculation also that putin goes in the opposite direction. he doesn't sign an agreement, he doesn't back down, but he doubles down. he escalates his way through this. and how biggest concern is that for you? you have to put yourself into his shoes, not able to achieve and term, he doesn't have any respect for human rights for humanitarian law. you have seen what putin has done to the citizen of grossly. you have seen what putting has done to the citizens of aleppo, so there may be

a danger that he is ready to double down. yes. and if he goes ahead and does that, what is the proper response in your view from the west? and so far the west has been remarkably united in terms of imposing very tough sanctions, but it has stopped short of, of sanctions. at least the europeans have on energy. is that a card that you feel that germany in the rest of europe might at some point be forced to draw a if putin seriously escalates? i think there has been really a remarkable united front of all the governments and the i, this is not only, you know, europe and the u. s. you have this world wide. an alliance of, of countries vote at the u. n. for overwhelming putting today is support, it is supported by kim young own by i sat and lucas shinkel can you imagine? so this is something which is really remarkable. i've seen i'm, i'm really surprised by the amount of solidarity we have in east european

countries in my own countries. people want to support ukraine, that they see what put in his doing. and of course, to, to go down in the direction now of an energy of a gas embargo. it's something very tough. it has serious, it has serious repercussions. but no right now that there are plans to em also by the commission to and see to it that we get faster to an independence of russian energy. and i think people are ready to, to go ahead. i think that people will not allow russia to do with key if what he has done to lead to and what he has done also to gross any girls have more and more, quite serious voices coming in and advocating some degree of intervention by nato. whether it is in trying to create a so called no fly zone of ukraine. or there was

a proposal for the polish site on this trip to give it to create what they described as a, a nato peacekeeping force. could that come a point where one of those options becomes more serious? one? i think this is something the lines have to discuss so far. it is clear that need to, as an organization will not be involved. this is in the logic of the atlantic treaty . this is why also in 2008, the basic decision was taken that the ukraine and georgia that was your daughter at the time in the center of discussion will not get a membership and not become a member of nato because of the risk of the direct confrontation of a 3rd woodward, so i think we will not go that way, not to risk a world war, but everything that is possible below that level, i think one should discuss and see how, how it is implemented. and how close are we getting to maybe even an accidental

clash of some kind. we saw a surveillance drone reports lead landing in romania. we've got a lot of concern in poland and other from east in nato flank, countries about what could happen. well, this is something we have, we have lived through during the cold war and russia and the united states, there was so pat and nato doing all of these many years of severe political crisis. were able to manage it in a way that there was no direct confrontation and i'm actually pretty optimistic that this doesn't happen. and if they are accidents, that they will be managed in a way that there is no escalation on the take a step back at this point and just look at the bigger global picture, particularly china, the americans are saying that russia has requested support and the, china's already providing economic and financial support to the russians and the

american saying that they are considering providing military support. what happens if china does go down that road if china starts quite actively supporting russia to this then become a proxy war between china and the west? well, china has to make a choice in china has been out in the u. n. where worked and when they say and underline, you know, the importance of national sovereignty. know when we criticize china about what they do with hong kong, what to do with the we're say you have nothing to do with it. this is national sovereignty. and now there is their partner rusher invading ukraine and by relating national sovereignty. so i think that they have, they are a pain to, to, you know, and somehow i'm not support but tolerated to be kind to the russian. so they are in a real problem. and they know if they now start activity to support rusher,

that they are, they lose their standing as a country that is trying to have in the world. and, you know, kind of an alternative power country that stands also for new power in the united nations that respect sovereignty and serve as kind of a model for other countries. if they do, they know if they go that way, they will lose credibility to degree that they are not ready to accept because then they are also been fighting with a party of state. so i have my adult on the other hand, course they, they don't want to put in and, and clothes so see, doesn't want to let, put him down. but he knows that putting may drag him into something which then has series through her cache. and because i'm sure that the us and others are watching very carefully. and does he stay neutral or does he get involved in an unacceptable way on the side of russia? and what would be the appropriate response for the west,

but also particularly europe, which has always been working at some to some extent its own line towards china. if china does make that move, what's the appropriate response for your, i think we have to get away from this notion of the west. you know, we have to go to new york. we have to say, this is international law. what russia is doing is by relating international law and china, then also openly support and russia in this, i think we have to bring it to the united nation. say this is a country that is now not respecting international law anymore, but supporting a country that is a virus is, is be so war. basically, you're war criminal and committing war crimes. and i think we should take it, take it to the, to the end. but of course, also discuss it between terms of any partners, but this goes beyond, you know, what we are witnessing here right now, what russia is doing is the violation of the very foundation of the order that was

established after the 2nd world war. it's a violation of the un charter of violation of the university declaration of human rights. so this is nothing between west and east. this is actually an attack on the global international order because of high school. and thank you very much for taking time to speak to us today. my pleasure. thank you. ah, into the conflict zone with sebastian. how quickly the busy re destruction of the war has spread across to craig, as russia seeks to impose its brutal, well known big country, but is to come pick now entering its most critical phase question to lieutenant general ben hodges, former commander united states army europe. but my guess is conflict next on d w, i need to see if graham don't need a t a over. i mentioned home the force i'm sold on those machines that we can in

a valley that the nation dragons. and that's what i had called to home for 2 years, dw books on how quickly the misery and the structure of the war has spread across ukraine. as russia seeks to impose its brutal will of the country. but if the conflict now entering it's most critical phase, the question to lieutenant general ben hodges, former commander united states, army europe, and my guest this week from franklin. this is not a bit, that's what i mean. it's going to be a decisive we decided to week ahead a whether or not we can bring forth the russians, the common names so that they can no longer check with targeting of civilians of.