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a spar badly o in the free credit that we'll go through with it. i was born in stuart's more to 30 on d w. well, joe biden is in europe this week to try to demonstrate unity with european allies of russia's invasion of ukraine. so we've come to the bonus, talk the german parliament here in berlin to speak to germany's transatlantic coordinator, my uncle michelle link. i want to find out from him just how united the allies really are, and where the germany is really pulling its weight. michelle link, let's start with germany, is been going through this huge transformation of it. some foreign and security policy just in the last few weeks since the war began spending suddenly

a 100000000000 extra euros on defense. how important is this moment for germany? it's an important moment for germany, but it's also a watershed moment for the european union. it's not only germany spending more, it's the european union for the 1st time setting up a, a program massive program where the united well sort of where the european union is, per chasing weapons is delivering weapons is even having a ready mate standing force in the future. in the strategic compa, so it's a watershed moment for berlin, but also for our union to some people around the world used to look at germany and sort of think of it as a sort of a big switzerland you know, country the like to make money and kind of keep it, it's hands relatively clean. yeah. is that decisively over with now that time? well that's in, within our hands, it should be over. it should definitely leave over. and it should have never been happen in the 1st place because we cannot be

a large switzerland. we are as germany, especially after the 2nd world war. after our experiences, we cannot be neutral. we are part of an alliance. we are part of nato. we have part of the european union. we have even the military assistance clause in the european union treating not only in the nato treaties so no to any neutrality, no to any form of in between of germany. we are clearly standing as ally among allies and with our allies. now, you know, ukraine and russia very well, you know, eastern europe very well. how worried are you about the situation right now? extremely so, and not only since this brutal war, which is a flagrant violation of international law. but if we can, if he tried to read the signs of the signals and tried to understand it already in the last years. since the very prominent enter a well in famous speech of president putin at the munich security conference in 2007,

we should have been knowing that something is coming. maybe not openly violent and aggressive, but certainly in form of a hybrid attack or even war on our western structures. and especially on the unity and of nato end of the european union. so it's not new. it became only more visible with the citic. now in your career, you've had a strong focus on democratic standards and human rights. when you look at vladimir putin, him, you speak about that the speech going back to 2007. when you look at the development of him as a, as a leader in russia of these 20 years, but particularly in the last few months, some people see someone who turned into an authoritarian. but now even going beyond that sort of almost hotel, it hadn't even sort of fascist overtones in launching the war. in a kind of speech is the words he's been using recently in public. is that how you see it? is that what we're dealing with here? a fascist dictatorship. i would, i wouldn't try to use any overt,

like fascism. it is for sure, a tendency of a increasingly and paranoid dictatorial structure of its own. but it's clearly more and more directed to one person. let's not forget, he's rolling the country since 1999. in the beginning, of course, he was not as strong as he is today. and even today we don't know exactly how the division of labor really works in the kremlin, but one of the things is sure, he pulls the strings, he's calling really the shots and he's relying on a small group of people, some of them, you know, some, we don't know, and with this small groupies steering the country in a more and more dick a tauriel way. and when i had the privilege to observe the elections in russia as chief observer in the last presidential elections, we clearly sat there was increasing grip on civil society and increasing grip also

on controlling the neighbors that could be seen already 4 years ago. now, nato allies in the region, of course, very anxious about what is happening. and how concerned are you that russia and the vladimir putin is going to start really testing nato's commitment to defend those allies. you mentioned just a moment ago that he's challenging the west. how concerned are you that this could could become something where he really tries to challenge the very ability of nato to protect it? i don't want to speculate or, but i'm pretty sure that in nato we have all the scenarios ready, mate, in case there is such an attack on they to territory. let's at least what the planners in eto and the defense ministers are very good at. so there are the scenarios, we don't speak about that a lot, but for sure he will be testing. and he already did air in more visible ways unless

isabelle based in cyber attack openly and hidden. and i'm pretty sure with the war in ukraine. there will be attempts of retaliation from the russian side, also directed to nato and its members. since he considers our sanctions and the delivery of weapons to ukraine as a extremely unfriendly act. so we should be better prepared for it, but cool blooded, well prepared. and then if necessary, act and react that it was lutely, and more and more countries, particularly in the eastern europe, saying that in order to try to stop putin sooner there does need to be an embargo on importing russian energy. germany, so far as been adamant that it simply cannot do that it would damage its economy too much. do you think at some point germany is going to have to consider that and relatively soon to try to sort of cut off the flow of money to put in?

i think it's very important to explain that germany does not want to continue to purchase energy in russia. it is simply not possible to stock it overnight, or whether be call it embargo or stopping the purchase. we should do it as soon as possible. i am very glad the chancellor put it to day in his, in his very important speech to the bonus dark today. the 1st, after the watershed moment he said, we should end energy purchase in russia as soon as possible. i think that's the way forward. as soon as possible, it's not possible overnight, by the way, we are not the only ones look to italy look even to some eastern european countries . we cannot edit over night, but we should do it as soon as possible because he really makes use of this money in order to run his army. that isn't the point that it might be possible, but it will just be expensive and germany doesn't want to pay that price. it will certainly cost the prize and it already does know. what we try to find is

a way to get soon writ of any energy purchase from russia by 1st a buying elsewhere. second, certainly it will be also more expensive. so we, we, we have to face that. ellen g terminals can be billed overnight. so it is a combination of being ready to pay more, but especially also to buy elsewhere. and you cannot, you cannot act in a way that you weaken yourself in an extreme way, so that we are not able any more than without economic power than to help ukraine. so when we act, we should act as fast as possible. we should certainly also pay a price for it. we are ready to blit, but nevertheless, it's still not possible overnight. let's look on the european level again and, and the trans atlantic factor in defense. so europe has been saying for a long time, this is a lot more urgency now that you has to do more for its own defense. but are we seeing in this crisis just how crucial the united states is to european defense?

if we imagine where we would be standing, if the united states was not an ally standing at your upside at the moment, i would rather not imagine. i wouldn't like to imagine where we would stand as europeans, without of the united states. and canada, by the way, but especially united states. i'm coming from south bunch of new york, germany from boston, newton beg for us, the south germans. it was always normal to have. he was troops in germany that was normal. that was important. that was part of our life, and i think we didn't really value that contribution of the united states to european security. and we now have to learn finally that we have to pay a higher share in this, in sharing that burden. by the way, it was obama in 2014 at the wave summit. oh, who really made us clearly. and in no uncertain terms, a stepped the 2 per cent gloss. it was already way before that before we had

president trump and to day it is still not fulfilled. so it's a homework to do. we have assumed that there and understood that duty and that task and we will do it. now of course, there is currently a president in place in the white house. he looks favorably on europe who's really tried to rebuild the, the, the trans atlantic alliance. but it's certainly conceivable that a donald trump or another donald trump, like politician, could win the presidency next time in just over 2 years. how much is that an a worry for you and your role, but also for germany and europe when it thinks about these questions? well, 1st of all, it's vibrant democracy in the united states. it's a democracy that makes their own, the u. s. make their own choice, but we hope that whoever it's been elected next president. but before that we have

the midterms. so we're looking way ahead. no, but independent of who is president, we want a waterproof relation where we as our side from the ocean and we, we carry our responsibilities. the best investment in good relations with the u. s . is that we do our job. and then of course, only if we do our job, we can only clearly address the us side. in case we don't like anything we hear from the white house. a good friendship is not about being quiet and one top one don't. it's about everybody doing his job and also to be open and frank when necessary. i mean, with your election, observe a background when you look at the situation in electoral politics in the united states, for instance, accusations of the republic parties, republican party is trying to hinder voting rights, especially for minorities. does this set of the election of alarm bells with you that the home of democracy is in big deck democratic trouble? well,

i had the privilege to serve for many years as the head of the audio. that is the main electoral watch talk and the, the of you was probably know it whenever you have international observers, the guys with the oversee badge of the, the ones whom i had the privilege to, to, to chat also in the us elections and general elections and what we have are seeing there. also the proposals now on the table. partially, they are just modernizing partially there. ok. but there is a certain limit what should not be done and that is always when you make voting more difficult. but again, it's not our job from the outside to lecture anybody, but there are international standards. there are international standards for good democratic and fair elections. and they require every participating state in the oversee, including the u. s. to make voting as easy as possible. fundamental rights should be easy to execute, easy to, to use. therefore,

i hope very much that also in the united states voting will not be made more complicated, but less complicated. michelle inc, thank you very much for your time speaking for d. w. thank you. ah, to the point, strong opinions. so clear position we say enter national perspectives, no end in sight to proteins, war in ukraine, a civilian casualties mount nato's, doing all the can to avoid being drawn into the fighting. you members are divided over how far to go on to the point where asking who can help you crane men to a point to delivered to ukraine. clone d, w. poland. they want to know what makes with the gym.

love and batting thing that way. but i'm not even know how to work my own car and everyone with later holes in every single day. getting you ready to meet the german. then join me writes us, do it on d. w with as proteins, war on ukraine continues. there is no end to the bombing, nor the blood shed as civilian casualties. mout, europeans look out in frustration at the western inability to help the fighting nato is doing all it can to avoid being drawn in the you members are divided over how far to go with weapons deliveries and sanctions. today we ask, as nato weighs, its options. who can help you crane with.