fontes one how much work can really go we still have time to work. i'm doing this for, for subscriber for more than just like good. hello and welcome to a special edition of the 77 percent. is the sure where we discussed the topics important to you? africa's youth. i am your host edie, mike, a junior now on today. sure. were discussing how to deal with the past. then i me be and genocide, to be precise. it's known as the 1st genocide of the 20th century over time german colonial forces detained, killed on force herrera and now my people into the desert where the diet of thirst

and starvation. and all this because the germans wanted the harrow and now my land . the issue of land and compensation still hang so by the head of my medians. today, my colleague, even kamani, went to the town of wilcox herrera and asked young the medians. what they feel needs to be done. ah hello and welcome to another edition of the 77 percent. now in may of 2021, both the german and namibian governments finally struck a deal on what to do about atrocities committed in this country by the former colonial power. he, among those discussions was what to do about the descendants of the genocide that unfolded right here in canada. now that that agreement has been made public there. those who say it's time to move on and there those who say it's still not enough. the question we're asking to day is, is it really possible to pay for trust is committed in the past and the people here today to help me answer that question. and we'll begin with elaine because i think

it's important for us to get an overview of the history. why is this so important and ways it relevant now? and i do know for the germans has which war against the communities in namibia. and this was ordered by the auto lot of and trotter, by ot her, ordered his troops to eradicate all the auto speaking people. and he has included the words. like if you see a woman or a child, you must make sure that the are eliminated. he repeated this 19 o 4 with another community of the number community within the media. and the intention was intentional that these people has to be eradicated just like it is up in with the heroes in 90. no, for as a result we have lost 12. we have lost lent and the german government in the german communities has benefited somehow with this atrocity that it is up in to day. they own this linda, that was taken for us to be the seat on their wealth. that as

a result we have lost. so serious consequences that you say are still being felt to day left come to so i mean was a journalist here, i just want to understand, i mean, when you read that history text and you hear what happened, it's obviously very brutal, but certainly not unique in these parts of africa, but why is it only being discussed now? and it's always been there. ah, nobody has always spoken about it back in the day until in 2006 when a former of i had a leader. but also he was part of the parliament rocco, who spoke about i'm who table the motion in parliament sort of to have germany. i speak to to admit that it was a genocide. what had happened then and then to speak to reparations. and then of course, as forgiveness. so obviously germany taking the unprecedented move to not just accept that this happened, but to also offer an apology. so charmaine, another charmaine. ah, you know, somebody might be listening to this from another part of african c, hey, namibia and germany have done the impossible getting these 2 nations to sit on the

table and reach some form of agreement. so why is it that we're hearing that it's not enough? a lot of descendants form of a hero in the num assayed have still experienced that they still feel the update or they still feel the genocide still amongst as to we just went to germans to acknowledge what happened and to stick responsibility and accountability for what transpired in just so that we can also find that closure that we seek. okay. so just to come back to your point because you're saying that you want the germans to accept responsibility and you want them to apologize. haven't they done that as part of this agreement? they basically said that yes, something did happen. they don't really say that we did this or my answer not we, but my emphasis did this to your people and we are sorry for that. and we just want as to now look at building a future together. let me come to vicky very now because we are hearing that there

are some long term consequences of the genocide that unfolded. 118 years ago. what are some of these consequences? one of those is cultural last that has been last communities. you go up north, you find communities who embraced the cultural identity in terms of in terms of 14 years of cultural days is go a little bit more central to the community. if they think cultural that they speak of it, the uniform of a war of 94. nothing before that if it's presented. if gotcha in terms of of people. yes. let's go to it's hipaa there because he was actually one of the people whose family was forced out of the media because of the war and he's recently just come back but you were born in books wanna. so displacement of persons was also another consequence. can you tell me about your family's experience? yes, indeed. we suffered a lot for the fact that we have to my grand green parents have to fit here too,

but so now in order to save your life, since we came back to me the by 1993. by the time or 2 years old, we still feel that much has not been done by the germans. you run in the form of a white man or a colonizer who claim to inherited the land from the parents. and you drive 30 kilometers around and square meters, you can named them. it's only for a family, but you will find now maybe it's infected families who have been tied to or you factored by the journal site, leaving in a parameter of 10 kilometers part of land, maybe 30 homestead. we are, we are getting poor every day. we are being effected, our lifestyles. poverty is almost hunting us. now. let's hear from harry here because he's one of the land owners, but also a 3rd generation maybe. so by all means, you know,

maybe and so how does it feel to hear that? the descendants of the germans are the ones who to car land. and if it wasn't for this, then we'd be in a better place. first of all, i think it's, it's, it's very, very important that we have this debate. it's a, it's a very important aspect to, to, to nation building. it's the other point that to me, in terms of land, you met the people who came here. none of them stole any land. the, the people who came here bought the land under the laws of the government of the day. so and so the people who have bought land since independence have bought it under the, under the current dispensation people before that and, and, and the different dispensations that we had in the last 110 years at established a, a, a, a framework of, of laws and with in these laws,

the state these forms were, were bought legally. this is a commercial entity. this is a, something new by you sell you, you, you inherit. i employ a unit or about at least 40 people permanently in about 8080 people in terms of further, you know, to off talk while they are probably about 400 people living off this of this, of this form of ours. if you, if you multiplied by families and that kind of thing, some of you say 30 kilometers driving with 11 family, i'm sorry sir. i mean, you know, that is just not how commercial farming works. okay. i see you already have a response. go for it. i really want to respect the, the, the view of harry on this. yeah. but if you have to go back to the drawing quinn, how did the white communities acquired lent in namibia? just because you had a soldier, you get the reward of the means of production, which is length. and then because you have it, you, your, your, your, your, you are able to lead your generation inherited this,

the law that is there was just, mainly for the purpose of protecting those that had, let you take the constitutionally, i chapters you think that the government of namibia and the constitution is designed to protect people like harry. exactly. because if you talk of the constitution that has the chapters that can not be touched in that cannot be amended, what do you think they are doing? they are protecting those that has let me come back to you hiring because we're hearing that the laws are designed to protect people like you. and that actually it would be nice if you could perhaps share your wealth. how do you feel about that? share share my wealth. yeah. i'll donate, i've had people say land. it's not something that makes your rich land is something that you can utilize in order to make money. very few people to actually manage to get a rich of land in an, in the other point that i'd like to make because some of the land that can be utilized in such a way that it actually does make you get you financially stable is

available on the on the free market, the, the issue of land is not equal to financial wealth. right. but i'm know, coming to you, lorraine, because you're a youth member of this community, highly affected. do you think that the problems that this community is facing really do them from a 118 years ago? or is it of your government just not stepping up to the plate of our government has nothing to do with it because if what have been didn't happen, then our government should be blamed for it. i believe that everything has to do with the past. and if the bus is actually recognized and put into place, i think that the government one have to be blamed for anything. then. all right, let me come back to you very now because i keep hearing, but you know, you're not satisfied very simply. what do you want? the amount that was offered is not enough. simply because we are talking of lint

that needs to be reclaimed. we are talking of, for example, every day, like commas or what happened to the people that lived there before. the gym and settled in window. yes, he was you get lend for the report. then you can talk about agriculture for them. you can talk about the future for them. can talk about training for them because the only way they can say this is home. so you get back huge trucks of land and there's some form of development in this area. does that solve the problem badly? yes. because i, i believe lend is the basis of life. so why do we have people have people if lend, then they can generate with i totally, i totally believe that you're making it sound like this. absolutely no land available in this country for the indigenous people. but what harry said is true, that there is land available for sale, their farms that are available, this community property that is perhaps even idle. so how will acquiring moreland,

she is a situation that's what i'm trying to understand. how does one without any money, if? well, if emily of generation awake us, so to say, how do the petulant, because i think $1.00 of the most expensive, i'm in the world know just in africa in the world. so you are telling me that the effect of communities must purchase one of the most expensive asset. you know what, how do they do that? it's virtually impossible. all right, and let me come to here because you live in this area and i just want to hear from you, you know, historically in your family, what do people do to earn a living? do they work on the farms? what do they do to keep to sad of what our biggest from is from in our district. but we have literally no lend that is available was we'll leave that as people and

or many by the white and every day waking up and to see that people are suffering in make in my area where everything actually had been as to come big and seeing ways our people suffering away, are we the ones to be suffering if we are in or on our lint owning land as very now said it, it, it will make a better future for us, or it will advance our leaving standards. we get lent, we get farms where we can start our businesses, and our youth or our young ones can create a better future for themselves. okay? and so, i mean, i want to come to you, or if land is indeed bought and sold to namibian, how will it change the situation? i keep coming back to this question because there's a lot of rural to urban migration right now who is going to take care of this land . if you look at places where lot of of i hero people or even number people leave, for instance, you see it's barren,

let it dry. i'm. if you come to the other side of, let's say, namibia way, the land that is predominantly white owned in also to some point like more german, the lent is, is fertile and they can be able to create wealth from that. the, what is it of i have people will still remain suffering unless really the scrape of the deal, like a lot of experts have said, an interest that, you know, for instance, german, even if these book of reconstruction and reconciliation, for instance, how will this money or these funds will be used to buy farms for the affected communities. by the way, i want to make it very clear that the german government has been careful not to call this fund reparations, but rather what she said, reconciliation and reconstruction program. so you're not doing very much here. let me do you have something to say to me because i imagined that education is really important. we saw what happened in zimbabwe when land was forcefully taken from the white settlers there. there were problems of food security not to mention tariffs of racial tension. we don't want to see every piece of the actually,

we do not want to see the repeat of that. that's why we have adopted that constitution of us. as much as i see it is been skewed and or protecting them more than the effect of community. we love that constitution. but how, how do we live within this? how do we realize that what we are currently owning has come as a result of the suffering of the cutting people? all right, let me come to you. i mean, because i think we've exhausted the issue of land, but isn't it more useful to spend this money on development because 1000000000 is not a small amount of money. yeah, no, most definitely it. you think it's small? yes. her with that said, i definitely agree in that regard because as well thought like why can't this be an agreement of where, you know, the descendants of the, of a hero enamel people are given guns to go study whether it's in germany or any other country or within m a b itself is well,

we can educate the descendants in order for them to have a better future cause that is the aim. we want them to have a better future. we want them to do better than what happened with the ancestors. great. let me come back to lorraine here because earlier you said that your government should not be blamed for the events that unfolded a 118 years ago, correct? there are consequences which we can't escape from. but again, i ask, you've lived in this area, your whole life, it's poorly developed. what makes you think that another 1b2b2xb will change that a letter regarding the money money is really not that much. to me. it feels like the, the trying to run away from the exhaust that they did. they just want to close the chapter thing for a final deal to woo no. this, we will, i affected in the money you're sending already the not enough in your range. what long, what's enough enough is when the realize that people need lent ends

as it is already, they want to close a chapter in the giving money and all that. the, the fact that the people that are there already, i afraid of losing it. and we want it as well. all right, let me ask harry, are you afraid of losing the land? would you be willing to part with it? for example, if there was a willing by if there was a willing buy and i went to to do to sell yours, i would sell land. after all, it's a business and land is a business, land needs to be productive. land needs to produce, to create jobs. commercial farming is indeed something that to me, you know, contributes to the national economy that doesn't exclude, not at all, the communal side of things. and it's something where we from a commercial side, are interested to listen. we can, we contribute in order to, to, to find a common common future. and that is really what it's about. it's about the future. let me hear from you, let me because i saw him nodding rather vigorously while you are speaking. because you're agreeing with his sentiments,

i do agree with the sentiment of having him to crab the future together. and that's what we se, let's, let's not be framed and be put in the corner of how much is enough. and so we're asking, this is how do you quantify been loss of life, loss of culture, this possession of land? how do you put a figure to this? is it so difficult is it is that you can put a price on the life, but this will not take effect that, that loss of life, that loss of land, that last of, of your humanity has put you in the current leaving standard that you have. and has benefited the other party we are now seeing please realize these and see what you can do and you have to be realistic in terms of how is it possible that 1000000000 that we claim would be enough? how will it i'll evade this poverty. how will it uplifted these communities that has lost that much for that long laney, a lot of people saying, you know,

the german government needs to do this. the german government needs to do that. but at some point you have to ask, where does the namibian government come in? when we in terms of genocide, there is one part that is responsible for that. and for sure, it's not going to be it, it's, it's, it's, it's a german government. so our fire, you said this should be, this should be recognize the apology has to be tended, and repression has to be paid on this. so once that is achieved, then we can talk about the namibian government on how are we going to make sure that these communities that has been affected are benefiting from what is owed to them so that they can at least get uplift it. ok from the current level of life they are living. by the way, i think it's really important to mention that president time i from germany was due to actually come to namibia to present this document in front of the namibian government for ratification. but because of cov, it, that didn't happen, but this is obviously in the books. okay. so he spent a great deal of time looking at the past and looking at the land issues. but i want

to ask a critical question, and i think i'll come back to you. i mean, is this a nod, you know, to the rest of, from a colonial powers that it's time to step up and take responsibility. could this be the precedent that we need? i mean it could have been effective germany stacked to the motion of 2000 and 6 am where they had to acknowledge that it's a genocide, as opposed to germany in the agreement saying, it's a genocide in 2 days. perspective, what is today's perspective? what does that mean? it's a general site, not today's perspective. reparations bay, the reparations, and i know the us get wind, emmett, if more or more other people or more the content will come back to germany and also hold it accountable for whatever atrocities they might have cost. and then we need the chancellor, for instance, this is a call from the of i had it in number of people in that is that division? you know, it will always be there until we get to that point. so for you, the little things matter. yes. language matters, the person who sent to apologize matters. yes. okay, so show me the how the show me, where do we go from here?

you know, because it took 6 years to get this deal alone. so do we need another 6 years? if you take another 6 years, you will never reach in agreement. it turns contingency like, no, but now we went this in this edit as well. so if you could just, i was asking, where does it stop? exactly. so we could just come to a conclusion or reach an agreement as we are currently, and just take it from the because we have to look at the future. we have to look at building something. we have to look at developing. we have to grow as a nation. i feel that we need to look past it in the just look forward to what the future holds for all of as okay. let me speak to veronica here because earlier she was obviously very frustrated. and you could tell that she's very, very angry, which is surprising because you're just 18. what will it take for you to be less angry to not feel like, you know, the children of harry? here are your enemies, but your fellow namibia. i want to be angry with harris children because he had

knowledge, the fact that he did something wrong and yes, via he had that interesting that you said harry acknowledged his mistake. so you actually don't see any difference between harry as a descendant of colonial power occupants, and the actual colonizers. i do. but harry is one of the land owners. the now media as you stated earlier and acknowledge the fact that he's white german, german, he's let me be and now maybe and ok, he's not me be. and i wouldn't mind what in a post, anything that his children or he sees because he's not media now. and he acknowledges the fact that he had done something wrong. he's offended somebody and he's ready to o, his fellow there to correct whatever it is that isn't done 100 in look, i really appreciate you try your best to be politically correct. come to the area

for a 2nd because obviously we've heard it, you know, vasa did, we've had another person. say blacks, whites, surely it must be painful to know that you're a member of this country and there's so much other ring. how do we get past that then maybe it's always this language group and compared to that one and not so you know, i am the median. i'm through search and ration them. maybe in the fall mom was on let me know, belongs to my family for the last 111 years. i have never lived in the country then . then in the media, i speak for languages including including the local one. i'm going to not very well, but i'm going to come in and it's in our interest as namibia needs to go hit the at the end of the day it is about the future together. okay, so what i'd like to hear your thoughts about the future. how do we make sure that we're able to move forward? you know, we need to move we, we cannot extend for from the past we had been effected. we need to move,

support the, the agreement in place, and then just change the phrasing of the, of the document itself and all those other technicalities that seen in the, in the, in the adjuster declaration. ok. and finally, very now, earlier you said that, look, this is not enough, but at some point the negotiations have to reach. and so where do you see it ending? once we we see that the germans are really willing to accept and acknowledge that what had been whether genocide it was not war crimes. it was not to ex of in you mean torture, whatever it was a genocide. other than that, aside from the money, which is not enough, i think the issue of culture has really been touched on. culture is self pride. go to self dignity. surely there must be the,

there was something that we lost somewhere along the line. yeah. how really claimed, well, i think that's a very difficult question and one, but there's a whole other debate on returning stolen artwork this but i think this is a good place to end. and i wanted to just draw from this agreement, which by the way, is a 6 page document. thank. are it all of you to look at it. and this is how i want to conclude. it's not possible to undo what has been done, but the suffering in humanity and pain inflicted on the 10s of thousands of innocent men. women and children by germany during the war is in what is to dana me be a must not be forgotten. it must serve as a warning against racism and genocide. thank you for watching. ah, we don't one the conversations and hear. so tell us what you think. commands on youtube instagram or write to us at $77.00, a. d, w dot com. for now,

i'll leave you with some music from my fellow gun in black roster, and jar amber. the songs are africa. good bye for now with jamie shaw with his golden with. ah, ah, ah, [000:00:00;00]

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