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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  April 10, 2022 12:30pm-1:01pm CEST

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77 percent in 60 minutes of w. every journey begins with the 1st step and every language with the 1st word college pinnacle. rico is in germany to learn german. why not learn with him simple online on your mobile and free shop. d w e learning course, nico speak, german made easy fresh allegations with russian forces, murder, ukrainian, civilians outside key f, have rapidly found their way to the un general assembly. 93 countries voted to suspend russia from the un human rights council. a humiliating move of moscow immediately condemned as illegitimate and politically motivated. but as russia really care what the world thinks about its invasion, my guess this week from moscow was perform a deputy for a mr. andre, a few other of,
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as russia finally acknowledges significant military losses that missed the potent realize he's beginning to lose his role. this is the position of food and you should understand that this person i know working for many years will not step back . you will continue, feel you will reach the goal. we don't have a real to what is going on. and this will be, that may be a mistake in our information from a, as russia focus is it's attacks on the south and east of ukraine, western government. so tightening sanctions on moscow, but will they change the kremlin mike? and how can i be me put in just ripped up the nuclear doctrine that kept the peace between the superpowers for 60 years. all that and more on complex the i
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and a few other a welcome to complex own. thank you. you're a former deputy foreign minister of russia and you now advise putins administration on foreign policy issues. that's right, isn't it? yes, you will. last in ukraine in january. russia has said it so called special military operation was to liberate ukraine from nazis. but we now have despite moscow's denials, credible allegations of war crimes carried out by russian forces, including summary executions of civilians, torture rape. when is the criminal going to drop the pretense that it's there to protect people and started making that it same is just to control the country any way it can. it's a very serious question because originally the special midra duration was planned to be concentrated on the bus. there are 3. don't ask and logan's
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republics bod, later on, it became a with more broad goal. which would be described as dennis, if you cation and then militarization grade. and in fact, the costs are elimination total elimination of the possible grad from ukraine to russia. and that's why this military operation day is gunning more and more in real war, though the war is not declared. but it's, it's hard for moscow. isn't it to stick to this rational or the declared rationale when, when, since, when does liberation involve destroying residential areas? wholesale shelling, civilian infrastructure, shooting civilians, raping women, and stealing civilian property. doesn't have much to do with liberation. does it in
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southern way? yes, of course, but war is war and such kind of things happens. the question is, i mean, is that the justification for the tremendous brutality that we've seen? no, it's read it the war. i've seen many war in my life, in different parts of the world. and morally, as the future sometimes is the se choice isn't it though this was moscow war of choice? ah, it was most who's the season? yes, it was most of the season. and moscow is trying to implement that in a full strength. this is the position of putting and you should understand that this person i know here for many years will not step back. you will continue feel you will reach the goal. and the goal is to change french speaking to change
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the regime in ukraine and to make your grain if not friendly, but a kind of neutral on 3, which she will not consider as attentive for us. it's a country that's going to, it's going to hate russia for the foreseeable future for what it's done, killing its people, and destroying cities and towns. this is one of the biggest problem when i was with ukraine many times or during last years. and of course, the mood is changing. if for example, 10 years ago, there was more much more rational feelings, especially the eastern new play. out edition is changing. and you're in my last mr . crane. i've seen this with my own eyes, that even the russian speaking population is now changing its opinion. and, and so this now is maybe turning point. the problem is that
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in a current situation, we are really r c, u grain. now as an to russia. and this is a probably the worst case scenario for us because it was such kind of mood of the nation. it would be very hard to achieve the goals which were put in front of this operation. and i see that this kind of goggle psychological tent and you criminal society will have a very long term influence and very long term negative effects for russia. yes, absolutely, absolutely. and not only for roughly the sheep i, because unfortunately a lot of my friends in ukraine are now considered russian, russian citizen as enemies as leaders, et cetera, et cetera. so this is reading
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a lot of personal contacts, ruining a lot of a lot of historical traditions, historical ties, and to overcome this. current crisis will be a terribly mr. potent has repeatedly complained that the west never listened to russia's what he called legitimate security concerns. but when he did listen and ovi, western leaders trooped off to moscow to talk to him, he simply live direct to their faces and presented them with an ultimatum. they knew they couldn't accept. that wasn't serious diplomacy. was it? i should start from somewhere from 2007 or something like list from ms. munich speech. when put in became president at the beginning of a 1000. she was really thinking about having good dialogue with europe, with united states,
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with nature who was trying to make up some steps towards what the problem that are within this dialogue he became more and more disappointed and he feel, he feels himself that are the this, the attitude from the west, the russia is more or less becoming the same, like it was those the so do unit and for put in the current policy is the current from his point of view, the policy of protection. russia from the same problems which solid unit fate. and he is considering military venture from the west from late. so as one of the key challenges for him personally as well. but isn't it true that he just wanted to get his hands on ukraine and control it from top to bottom by any means available to him? and he wasn't going to ever negotiate that. seriously, you doubt?
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i mean, you've been a deputy foreign minister, you don't negotiate by just putting down all your demands into a draft treaty telling everyone to sign it and threatening them with force if they don't. that's not, that's not genuine diplomacy, is it genet, diploma? said the current iteration is not working at all because as i said, this situation is very strange for many points of view. it's not the war. it's a special mid preparation. it's a situation when geneva convention on the war prison. so oil is not working and you know, the problem is the falling that we lost a lot of time before all this thing started there were chances in the past to solve a number of issues with the grade of but it was not meant for regret inside sometimes a, with
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a reasonable response. sometimes it was mistake from our side. and, and now our traditional diplomacy, by the way, which takes a lot of time, is not working. oh michelle, you, other of all that talk that we heard over the years about ukrainians and russians being one people and then to prove those strong ties, you climb into your tanks and you go and kill them. already more than 1400 civilians have died, a dozen, nobody in the russian government and you, you deal with the presidential administration. there's nobody there have any concept of the senseless misery that they're causing to ukraine. ah, i would like to say that are psychologically we are still the same nation, the same slavic, our nation rationally and ukraine grants are very close still, even in this allies in the day by bay. yes. yes, it's a,
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it's a problem of military operation. and it's a problem of, ah, ah vision because a for our big part of our leadership is not for all are, it's, are considered not as war against ukraine and ukrainian, they're considered that it's a war against masses that will tell them by living they're living in fantasy land, bernard bay, maybe some yes people. yes, because i think that sometimes there is not enough understanding what is going great and i am, i see that there was some miscalculations during last year's go turning your grade mrs. in, in the un general assembly 93 countries voted to suspend russia from the human rights council,
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citing reports of gross and systematic violations and abuses of human rights. not a surprise was it after all, the latest allegations of civilian executions in butcher and other places previously occupied by russian units. the world isn't buying. the kremlin denials does put in care one way or the other trust for russia was ready for such dying of loading. and it wasn't the mother's shop surprised after moscow bought about this body. we don't care too much for us, of course. the most important thing is security council and our ability to continue to refresh. that was there to bring our use there. but the reason of growing guys, relational russia is existing, i have to confirm it. it's never been a problem for the russian security forces to kill in large numbers. have it. we saw
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this in the to was in chechnya, tens of thousands killed the capital grenade, devastated by massive russia bombing and shelling with very little regard for civilians. rushes army doesn't do small surgical strikes, does it? oh, i think the kitchen i experience is influencing a on the special made preparations ukraine because feel today, rush rami sprang void direct heavy attacks. michelle attacks on big cities like kind of go here, but cetera. we are you, paul? devastated completely for yes. i know i was my friends money. all the city is destroyed nearly 90 percent today. this is clear, this is randy and we just had a bomb over the railway station in chrome, a tall,
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skinny that killed at least 50 people yet. but this guy does not regard civilian life at all is not considered the slot last case. it's messiah bomb. it's a special investigation on this case because this chromosome, by the way, is $1.00 0 and was one of the most russian cities in ukraine. previously. mr. piano of political killings have been on the rise as well under this government, having bay and russia itself. in other countries, we've seen one after another president putin's political opponents, they've been attacked, murdered, mysteriously fallen off their balconies or had their clothes smeared with chemical agents. this government has no qualms about killing for purely political reasons, does it? oh, it's hard to say if it's a political jelly, so in some cases,
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of course the opposition against food is not welcome in russia. and it's obvious why under statement isn't it? it's, it's, it's crushed today. opposition to put in is smashed, crushed. it's not just going to more, is it a long, long established kremlin tradition and conviction, but ruling by fear and violence is much more effective than trying to be liked. that subtle good solution for russia, if it will take you in the taurus period in peril, russia, period, it was more of the same method of in political life, especially before the rational relation you should also understand that russian culture is totally different than many cases from european culture,
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and sometimes there is a feeling that feast is stronger than what you talk almost academically about what's going on, but aren't, aren't you ashamed of personally of what your forces are doing and ukraine 1st of all, even me. i don't even me and many others. we don't have a real to what is going on. and this will be, it may be a mistake in our information campaign. because from my point of view and express the publicly, we need to seriously enlarge the volume of the information for the week of our forces. there are because you can reach us. you can see the devastation. yes sir. i can see the bodies aren't. aren't you ashamed of that? and it's a tragedy. it's real bread that the what and what does happen that the,
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the us with the 50 people skill in one more credit for your brain as well, for russia. and i, i think that russia needs to be much more open information space or show what was real and what was fake. it's not going to happen is it, it's not going to happen. there's a huge clamp down on media. virtually all independent media has been shut down, hasn't it? not all, but globally, virtually yes, on many of them are now labeled as a foreign agents and are not able to present that in the public. or though, of course, are still there are submit this for some individuals. the raise there was against the mil, reparation. but generally, generally, at this stage in the mood in the nation is in favor of done this,
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but it's already clear that in a number of key aspects, russia's military operation has failed, at least in terms of its initial aims. you said yourself in february putins instruction, initial instruction was to have a full victory over your grade by march. the 2nd. here we are more than a month on russian forces that seem to have given up on key f and the been routed from a number of towns and locations. and finally, we had an admission that they have suffered significant losses. who is going to be paying for those failures of the rush? it's still very hard to say it's a failure or not because the battle is still going gone. and going to be formed, poorly, hasn't it? the army is not before then i'm just more or less than the normal a like they are or the they're ordered. so poor plan,
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supply line didn't supply tanks that run out of fuel. that kind of the problem is the other that the territory on which ration mom is now is raging, is much larger than it was probably originally lamb. why they didn't have a map. they didn't know how long. no. no, it's not a map. it's something it will if you will, of the degree of poor jim. it was decree, special mil, 3 abbreviation for secure dog bus and no guns republic. there was no one in this degree about here about how to go about this. so something like this . but the problem is, is, and the fact that the main goal as it was cold diameter is ation. and then as if in case of your grade is not possible only of the limit that there are 3
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of us and the dolls aliamanu for the cetera. if russia once realized august, oh, it needs to be problem. hope it's not this, this stuff needs much more horses then are now and you pay. but it, but it, it's already clear that this war is a disaster for your country because it's brought russia will, the things it doesn't want. russia wanted recognition and respect seats and all of the global top tables. now it's been shunned, it wanted less nato on its borders. it's going to get much more. it's got an ego huge economic kaitlin. it's clamped down is forcing the brightest young people in the country to leave in that tens of thousands. can you think of one single benefit this war has brought russia? at this stage i don't see any benefits myself. moral. even more on one of the dea
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shows in moscow, i named 2 figures in 1980 the 1st real war year in august them, we lost in one year, 1584 soldiers and officers. more or less the same figure will last in one bar in ukraine. so compare this, and you will understand that this is a problem for russia and even the best go for press secretary for who 2 is recognizing this last this last us will have, of course, very serious implants later on, on domestic simulation. russia. because what is the most dangerous scenario for russia? is that such an off mid ration will last long. but does putin realize
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that with all these apparently unforeseen reactions and results from this war, that he's actually losing it? he's not going to win this. the western said, you know, they're determined that he should not win in ukraine. that doesn't have a fit in the kremlin. and it was, by the way, just best the day once again, that affected by fiscal food ins press secretary that the victory is near. this feeling is domini. still explain, can you oh, there is a feeling that are ah, more or less in the coming days or may be coming weeks, a re, re, will be reached and this will then you brand new the ship on their knees,
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and they will agree on any document besides with us, they really believe that still yes, there is a belief and the western sanctions and the western support that's been given to ukraine hasn't changed their mind about any of this. prentice taking a lesson sanctions are in fact long term sanctions and not influencing today very seriously though. yesterday it was published the figure that 60 percent of russian citizens feel themselves as the inference of the sanctions. but for everyday lives essential. i'm not at all and not so seniors. oh, but the question is, how long it will all the whole story though? and the other thing is that are
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a must go and russia still don't feel themselves in international isolation. and this gives a certain, a lot of strength to put in a position of china for example. you think they're just kidding themselves. you think they just don't want to see reality. they're living in some sort of parallel universe here. yes. sometimes we can say that we are living in the ivory tower. ah, and i think that there is, of course, now more wish to see the victory than our realization of the fact that the victory still thought do you accept that? thanks to russia, the world is going to be a much, much more dangerous place in years to come by waving his nuclear weapons at the west. putin has challenged the doctrine that has held for 60 years that no nuclear
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armed states would fight to war with each other because neither side could win. but put in now seems to be saying, well, i know you to the west. i know you've got nuclear weapons, but i might use mine anyway. that's, that's a huge upset for this doctrine of mutually assured destruction isn't it? i'm sure that all of this great and war rises will be over. the world will be different. and all the previous approaches, all the previous conceptual mutual guitar and so balance will not work anymore. and i can agree with you that it's a very dangerous develop ation. because i know the existence of nuclear arsenal will be not any more on both psychological administered barrier. i'm very sure thanks very much for being on conflict. so thank you. thank you for
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your time. thanks. ah. with
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d. w. lead for mines ah ah, ah, this is dw, use life from berlin, ukraine and russia agree on germany, terry and corridors to evacuate civilians from cities and ukraine's east and southeast. more and more people are fleeing the region, but thousands of still trapped. p as grow of a new russian offensive on the way we get the latest from our correspondent on the ground. also on the program. the french elections in man where my call.

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