tv Conflict Zone Deutsche Welle April 13, 2022 9:30pm-10:01pm CEST
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and into a spiral of violence. without it a film about family, faith, masculinity of fathers and sons starts april 16th on d. w. fresh allegations with russian forces murdered, ukrainian civilians outside key f have rapidly found their way to the un general assembly. 93 countries voted to suspend russia from the un human rights council. a humiliating move of moscow immediately condemned as illegitimate and politically motivated. but as russia really care what the world thinks about its invasion, my guess this week from moscow is the former deputy for a minister. i'm very few other of, as russia finally acknowledges,
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significant military losses that missed the putin realize he's beginning to lose his role. this is the position of food and you should understand that this person i know looking for many years will not step back. you will continue feel you will reach the goal. we don't have a real to what is going on. and this will be, that may be a mistake in our information from a, as russia focus is, it's attacks on the south and east of ukraine, western governments of tightening sanctions on moscow. but will they change the kremlin mind? and house vladimir putin just ripped up the nuclear doctrine that's kept the peace between the superpowers for 60 years. all that and more on complex, the news
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and very few other a welcome to complex own. thank you. you're a former deputy foreign minister of russia, and you now advise putins administration on foreign policy issues. that's right, isn't it? yes, you will. last in ukraine in january. russia has said it's so called special military operation, was to liberate ukraine from nazis. but we now have, despite moscow's denials, credible allegations of war crimes carried out by russian forces including summary executions of civilians, torture rape. when is the criminal going to drop the pretense that it's there to protect people and started making that it same is just to control the country any way it can. it's a serious question because originally the special midra duration was planned to be constant. great. that was there are 3 done that can logan's
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republics bod, later on, it became with more broad goal. we should put in describe s. dennis, if you cation and the militarization of your grade. and in fact, the costs are elimination. total elimination of the possible grad from ukraine to russia. and that's why this military operation, the day is gunning more and more in real war, though the war is not declared. but it's, it's hard for moscow, isn't it to stick to this rational or the declared rationale when, when, since, when does liberation involve destroying residential areas, wholesale, shelling, civilian infrastructure, shooting civilians, raping women, and stealing civilian property. doesn't have much to do with liberation. does it in
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southern way? yes, of course, but war is war and such kind of things happens. the question is, i mean, is that the justification for the tremendous brutality that we've seen? no, it's read it or i've seen many war in my life, in different parts of the world. and morally, as the booster sometimes is the se choice isn't it though this was moscow or of choice? ah, it was most whose decision. yes, it was most of the season and moscow is trying to implement it in a full strength. this is the position of putting and you should understand that this person i know here for many years will not stab back. you will continue, feel you will reach the goal. and the goal is to change french
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speaking to change the regime in ukraine and to make it grain if not friendly, but a kind of neutral on 3, which she will not consider as attentive for us. it's a country that's going to, it's going to hate russia for the foreseeable future for what it's done, killing its people, and destroying cities and towns. this is one of the biggest problem when i was with ukraine many times or during last years. and of course, the mood is changing. if, for example, 10 years ago, there was more much more rational feelings, especially the eastern, played out additional training. and during my last visit, the crane, i've seen this with my own eyes that even the russian speaking population is now changing its opinion or, or this now is maybe turning point are the problem,
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is that in a current situation we are really r c, u grain now as an to russia, and this is probably the worst case scenario for us because it was such kind of mood of the nation. it could be very hard to achieve the goals which were put in front of this operation. and i see that this kind of goggle psychological tent, any criminal society, will have a very long term influence and very long term negative effects for russia. yes, absolutely, absolutely. and not only for roughly the sheep i, because unfortunately a lot of my friends in ukraine are now considered russian, russian citizen as enemies as leaders, et cetera, et cetera. so this is reading
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a lot of personal contacts, ruining a lot of a lot of historical traditions, historical ties, and to overcome this. current crisis will be terribly mister potent has repeatedly complained that the west never listened to russia's what he called legitimate security concerns. but when he did listen and ovi western leaders trooped off to moscow to talk to him, he simply lied direct to their faces and presented them with an ultimatum. they knew they couldn't accept. that wasn't serious diplomacy. was it? i should start from somewhere from 2007 or something like list from ms. munich speech. when put him became president at the beginning of 2000. she was really thinking about having good dialogue with europe, with united states,
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with nature. he was trying to make up some steps toward what the problem that are within this dialogue he became more and more disappointed and he feel, he feels himself that i the, this, the attitude from the west, the russia is more or less becoming the same like it was those the so do unit and for put in the current policy is the current from his point of view, the policy of protection, russia from the same problems which solid unit fate. and he is considering military venture from the west for late. so as one of the key challenges for him person as well. but isn't it true that he just wanted to get his hands on ukraine and control it from top to bottom by any means available to him? and he wasn't going to ever negotiate that seriously. you doubt, i mean,
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you've been a deputy foreign minister. you don't negotiate by just putting down all your demands into a draft treaty telling everyone to sign it and threatening them with force if they don't. that's not, that's not genuine diplomacy, is it genet. diplomacy in the current iteration is not working at all because as i said, this situation is very strange for many points of view. it's not the war. it's a special mid preparation. it's a situation when geneva convention on the war prison, so oil is not working and you know, the problem is the falling that we lost a lot of time before all this thing started. there were chances in the fast to solve the number of issues with the grade of but it was not met from the credit inside, sometimes a with
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a reasonable response. sometimes it was mistakes from our side and, and, and now our traditional diplomacy, by the way, which takes a lot of time, is not working. oh miss. any other of all that talk that we heard over the years about ukrainians and russians being one people. and then to prove those strong ties, you climb into your tanks and you go and kill them already. more than 1400 civilians have died, a dozen, nobody in the russian government and you, you deal with the presidential administration. there's nobody there have any concept of the senseless misery that they're causing to ukraine. ah, i would like to say that are psychologically or we are still the same nation, the same slavic, our nation rationally and the credit and grins are very close. still, even in this allies in the day by day. yes. yes, it's a,
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it's a problem of military operation. and it's a problem of, ah, ah vision. because a for our big part of our leadership is not for all are it's are considered model as war against ukraine and ukrainians are considered that it's a war against masses. that was a lead by living there, living in fantasy land, bernard bay, maybe some. yes. people yes, because i think that sometimes there is not enough understanding what is going great and i see that there was some miscalculations during last year's journey. ukraine missed in in the un general assembly. 93 countries voted to suspend russia from the human rights council, citing reports of gross and systematic violations and abuses of human rights. not
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a surprise was it after all, the latest allegations of civilian executions in boucher and other places previously occupied by russian units. the world isn't buying the kremlin denials, does put in care one way or the other trust for russia was ready for such dying of loading. and it wasn't the mother's shop surprised after moscow bought about this body. we don't care too much for us. of course. the most important thing is security council and our ability to continue to repress them. that was there to brain. i'll use there. but the reason of growing guys, relational russia is existing, i have to confirm it. it's never been a problem for the russian security forces to kill in large numbers. have it. we saw
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this in the to was in chechnya, tens of thousands killed the capital grenade, devastated by massive russia bombing and shelling with very little regard for civilians. rushes army doesn't do small surgical strikes, does it? oh, i see in the kitchen i experience is influencing a on the special meal preparation ukraine. because feel today, rush rami sprang void, direct heavy attacks. miss ala tax on big city is like kind of go here, but cetera. we are you, paul? devastated completely for yes. i know i was my friends in the city is destroyed nearly 90 percent today. this is clear, this is the really we just had a bomb over the railway station in crime. tosca nice,
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that's killed at least 50 people yet. but this does not regard civilian life at all is not considered the slot last case. it's messiah the bomb. it's a special investigation on this case because this chromosome, by the way, is $1.00 0 and was one of the most russian cities in ukraine. previously. mister piano of political killings had been on the rise as well under this government. haven't they, in russia itself, in other countries? we've seen one after another president putin's political opponents, they've been attacked, murdered, mysteriously, fallen off their balconies or had their clothes smeared with chemical agents. this government has no qualms about killing for purely political reasons, does it? oh, it's hard to say for the police to go kelly. in some cases, of course the opposition door against boot is not welcome in russia.
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and it's obvious why am understatement, isn't it? it's it's, it's crushed. today our position to put in is smashed, crashed. it's not just to get him or is it a long, long established kremlin tradition and conviction, but ruling by fear and violence is much more effective than trying to be liked that shuttle solution for russia, if it will take you in the taurus period in peril, russia period, it was more of the same method of in political life, especially before the rational lucian you should also understand that the russian culture is totally different than many cases from european culture. and sometimes there is
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a feeling that feast is stronger than what you talk almost academically about what's going on, but aren't, aren't you ashamed of personally of what your forces are doing and ukraine 1st of all, even me. i don't even me and many others. we don't have a real to what is going on. and this is maybe maybe a mistake in our information campaign. because from my point of view, our next president publicly, we need to seriously enlarge the volume of the information of the week of our forces. there are because you can see the natures you can see the devastation. yes sir. i can see the parties aren't. aren't you ashamed of that? it's a tragedy. it's real bread that the what and what has happened to the us with the
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50 people skill in one more credit for your brain as well, for russia. and i think that russia needs to be much more open information space or show what was real and what, what fake is not gonna happen? is it, it's not going to happen. there's a huge clamp down on media. virtually all independent media has been shut down, hasn't it? not all, but globally, virtually yes, on. many of them are now labeled as a foreign agents and are not able to present their opinion to the public. now though, of course, are still there up, submit this for some individuals raise their worse against the military operation. but generally, generally at this stage in the mood in the nation is in favor of it to us.
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but it's already clear that in a number of key aspects, russia's military operation has failed, at least in terms of its initial aims. you said yourself in february putins instruction, initial instruction was to have a full victory over your grade by march. the 2nd here we are more than a month on russian forces that seem to have given up on key f and the been routed from a number of towns and locations. and finally, we had an admission that they have suffered significant losses. who is going to be paying for those failures of the rush? it's still very hard to say. it's a paler, not because the battle is still going gone. and the army formed poorly, hasn't it? the army is not before that, i'm just the normal a like they are or the they're ordered. so poor plan,
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supply line didn't supply tanks that run out of fuel. that kind of the problem is the other that the territory on which ration mom is now is operating, is much larger than it was probably originally lamb. what they didn't have a map, they didn't know how long. no, it's. no, it's not a map. it's something it will if you will take the degree of poolgan. it was a degree special mil, 3 abbreviation for secure dog bus, a new dance group public. there was no one in this degree about here about how to go about there. so something like this. but the problem is, is, and the fact that the main goal as it was cold diameter is ation. and then as if you cation of your grade is not possible only of the limit that there
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are 3 of us and the dolls aliamanu for the cetera. if russia once realized august, oh, it took a problem. hope it's not this, this stuff needs much more horses. them are now and you pay, but it, but it, it's already clear that this war is a disaster for your country because it's brought russia with the things that don't want russia wanted recognition and respect seats and all of the global top tables. now it's been shunned, it wanted less nato on its borders. it's going to get much more. it's got an ego huge economic hit and it's clamped down, is forcing the brightest young people in the country to leave in that tens of thousands. can you think of one single benefit this war has brought russia at this stage, i don't see any benefits myself. moral. even more on one of the dea shows in
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moscow, i named 2 figures in 1980 the 1st real war in afghanistan. we last in one year, 1584 soldiers and officers more or less the same figure will last in one man in ukraine. so compare this, and you will understand that this is a problem for russia and even the best golf press secretary for who is recognizing this last this last us will have of course, very serious implants later on, on domestic situation. russia, because what is the most dangerous scenario for russia? is that such and of mid race and will last long. but does putin realize
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that with all these apparently unforeseen reactions and results from this war, that he's actually losing it? he's not going to win this. the wester said, you know, they're determined that he should not win in ukraine. that doesn't have a fit in the kremlin. and it was, by the way, just best the day once again, that affected by fiscal williams press secretary, that the victory is near. this feeling his domini, still explained, can you oh, there is a feeling that more or less the coming days or maybe coming weeks of them to read 3 will be reached and this will then
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you grantley, the ship on their knees. and they will agree on any documents of besides with us, they really believe that still yes, there is a belief. and the western sanctions and the western support that's been given to ukraine, hasn't changed their mind about any of this. prentiss, picking up lester sanctions are in fet logged them. sanctions and influence. think to day very seriously though. yesterday it was probably the figure that 60 percent of russian citizens feel themselves the inference of the sanction. but for everyday lives this benches. i'm not at all and not so sous ooh, but the question is, how long will the whole story been though? and the other thing is that must go. and
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russia still don't feel themselves in international azelli's. and this gives a certain strength to put in a position of trying to hook. so you think they're just kidding themselves. you think they just don't want to see reality? they're living in some sort of parallel universe here on the yes. sometimes we can say that we are living in the ivory tower and i think that there is, of course, now more wish to see literary than realization of the fact that the victory still thought. do you accept that? thanks to russia, the world is going to be a much, much more dangerous place in years to come by waving his nuclear weapons at the west. putin has challenged the doctrine that has held for 60 years that no nuclear
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armed states would fight to war with each other because neither side could win. but put in now seems to be saying, well, i know you to the west. i know you've got nuclear weapons, but i might use mine anyway. that's, that's a huge upset for this doctrine of mutually assured destruction isn't it? i'm sure that after this, your grand war crisis will be over. the world will be different. and all the previous approaches, all the previous conceptual. so i'm here till the balance will not work anymore. and i can agree with you that it's a dangerous development because i know the existence of nuclear arsenal will be not any more both psychological administered barrier and very few other thanks very much for being on conflicts on. thank you. thank you
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ah ah, ah, this is dw news live from berlin. turn out tonight, the mounting evidence pointing to russian war crimes in you crate. investigators are exhibiting bodies from mass graves allegedly left behind by russian soldiers. the international criminal court says the whole country is now a crime scene and u. s. president biden says, this is janice are also coming up denied a plea from ukraine's president send us things to help us avoid an endless blood
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