house smart nature for a longer, healthier and fuller life. one of the most insightful discoveries in the history of mankind. more life starts may 28th on d, w. more than 2 months into the war in ukraine and both sides are taking heavy losses. while the bombardment goes on, moscow has kept up its relentless propaganda, accusing nato of conducting a proxy war with russia. my guest, this week is less here. basil, ankle politician and human rights lawyer who joins me from key f. what makes her so sure, mister putin wouldn't press his nuclear button in all honesty and has made so many claims which watched never once had said that he had swimming,

employ nuclear weapons crane would be suicidal to him on his own oxygen, his ankle as well in recent weeks, she's had blunt words for the west, and nato, accusing the alliance of cowardice and watching the war as if it were a movie. but she still feel that way. and what about a future peace deal with russia? is there any sign a tall of what it might look like over and much more on conflicts on lexia basil and go welcome to complex zone. thank you. they had to be here more than 2 months into this war, at some 5000000 of your people have left as refugees, but now hundreds of thousands are coming back sometimes against the advice of local authorities. what does that tell you about your people, your country? it's resilient and stubborn people that russia has to deal with. and we are very

confident in our victory. i'm very confident in the victory of freedom, monday and dependence on people who you're seeing coming back people more than anything. want to live in a free and independent ukraine. i don't think that's new everything to build it from the rock of russia aggression. we've seen ukrainians forced to confront unbelievable pain and loss almost on a daily basis. some have spoken in interviews about that. continuing disbelief and what was happening to them. do you share that feeling? every single ukrainian has lost something in the school? the was the people having to enjoy losses of close ones, like family members and their friends. people have lost property, have lost houses. hines. every one's at a loss why it's happened because of russia now,

it's very clearly now how it was possible to even go as far as the russian was all the crimes they are committing currently. and this is something on facebook . this is something that many grains my thoughts still cannot follow together. what have you learned about yourself during this period? our lot, i think that's myself. like many of the korean women, we uncovered the strength that we never knew we had before. on this these past 2 months and the beds have been about unity have been about us for every single costs . and for every single family we have discovered all myself does not. we are strong people. we are a nation united nation nation touch, really, really love this country and as prepared to die for and the knowledge you said

prepared to die for it, but the knowledge that life good and today tonight, tomorrow for you and those who you care about is that an ever present feeling and does that sap your focus or does it in the way in spy? you are going to live with bustling on, so have millions of ukrainian flu remained in ukraine. it's a strange feeling that you know that it can all end tomorrow. but i think the fear of losing freedom and losing lives in the free grain is greater than the fear of losing your own life. you mentioned the crimes that are being committed and you've been keeping track of some of the war crimes allegations that have been piling up against russian forces, especially when it comes to the treatment of women and girls. how shocking has that been for you? that is exactly what mine line cannot put together the puzzle pieces. all that

right in front of me on the table was the fast rates committed against ukrainian women, ukrainian field from cranium on armed man. ah, i have the facts, numerous tortures and all their thousands of tables, sometimes with absolutely devastating pictures to go wisdom. but my brain cannot process the cruelty behind it. the intentions of violence, this is, this is the restlessness with which i also had mentioned. it was the restlessness of the brain which leads to many sleepless nights. do you believe the russian commanders of ordered these crimes the ledge to have been committed or simply turned a blind eye to them? i believe that the strategy of the russian army, as well as the leadership of russia, the country to destroy ukraine, ukrainians in every way possible was the russian book doing is more than just

physically killing ukrainian soldiers. they are trying to embrace the crating and nation from the face of us doing this in so many different ways. the fact that our children today for more than 2 months have been deprived of proper education. the schools are closed, the can, the gardens university, so cost ukraine. that's only online schooling. children are not in schools learning things, not socializing. was that kids, but they are hiding in bumps shelters. they are in the basement hiding from russian artillery and from russian soldiers, hunting them down to kill them, to torture them, to rate on this is a future generation of ukrainians, which will be growing up. was huge for months on with very, very limited education and learning skills. this is ukraine. we're talking about a european nation, which has pride as well. yes. and the number of literal people,

literate children of the 6 fast as a new patient successes of the children's schools and russia taking. that's why they are destroying that deliberately. what about the chances of bringing winnable prosecutions against any of the soldiers that have been committing these acts? so 5, believe 10 have been identified. a suspects from the unit that occupied butcher where the bodies of civilians apparently shot in summary executions were left lying in the streets. do you have any hope that these people might be brought to trial might be brought to justice? i'm confident the justice for my son will be served of the cranium courts and the the within the cranial justice system. it will be found in international conditional bodies such as the international criminal court, the national court of justice. and i found that eventually the wolf, that

a special criminal tribunal for bruton or his cronies or the general soldiers committee crimes in you talk to me if you will, about life from the occupation in pass on for instance. is there anything in russia's behavior that allow you to form any view of their long term aims? the russians long term aims. i gather the mass, been replaced, the currency is being replaced with russian roubles. reports that russia, textbooks have been brought into schools that the internet has been disconnected and connect reconnected to moscow's own system. is this the template as far as you know, because the preparations being made for permanent occupation of the places where they are at the moment. it looks like it, i mean, you asked me questions back here about dying. i've said that there's a fear about using the 3 them. you can rephrase that by saying that it's a theatre of living under such conditions that you have just described or song.

well, you just don't lose everything like physically because your home is destroyed. but you can, you are told how to live. you are being deprived of information channels being deprived the language of your history of your car and see even and you're being told that this is a, this is how you live. now you have no choice. i think the was that every ukrainian or us here on monday, but they are all the cities which of the 2 eyes the russians are trying to impose on all of the play. and again, this gets the cranium, nation, even more, united and even more determined to fight even harder. what's the role of a politician like you under the circumstances? what, what can you do feel, constituents? how do you even keep track of the of the living in the dead today?

it's much easier than back in the day i imagine because of the social we and because everybody literally has devices with internet and i can do a wider outreach. and this is how we lunch. they are the needs of the people. they're all a physician is to be on the ground with the people of ukraine, supporting them using them with the national park. this can provide system can provide relief to the various needs. and we took basic needs here we're doing about getting food to people. madsen cast, the sick and elderly, that sort of thing to military and a that you want to watch for how and the what level do do the mechanics of daily life continue though under this constant bombardment? actually now it has become more or less back to normal if you like. i'm talking now downtown. i seen the tree to lot of calls lots of people passing by the shops or

the task things that error rates, iron founding from time to time. and we learn to live with us in the background on learn to, to, to make best of it on every single person has found space in their life will and will helping others who was so than they are on the fingers. football in the chairs, politicians, government officials, apart from our regular duties about writing laws, debating them in parliament, voting on them, discussing them in committees, we find a lot of space and a lot of time for coordinating volunteer coordinators military need for coordinating military assistance to, to the different territorial defense units into the different movie you even. so every what, but he's doing that to keep ukraine safe, to keep the community safe. and at the end of the tasty house,

you said recently that 80 percent of your thoughts directed at the now of the war, but 20 percent is thinking about the future and about reconstruction. how vital is that from a practical point of view? and i suppose from the point of view of morale as well, it's absolutely important to look to the future to know your past and to the present. so because the conditions are for today, we have to concentrate on the presence to survive. and that's the main thing, but then again, we're talking about people coming back to craig. we're talking about people coming back to find destruction in the channels that have been occupied by russia and have been freed by ukraine. and he's don't built, this is just a simple example of that and to rebuild any to be a vision or rebuild that needs to be a plan. like there was a marshall plan for europe. that must be a certain plans. we grant,

they would go with the brussels because essentially, the situations we have come forward, we have started to devise, devise such a scheme as to how to really great and how much money is to be allocated to the u. k. o will reading a part of the, the kind of thing a big role as well. there is a whole team or british economist which is now locking premium specialist next, but to also devise a plan on becoming recovery, which would try to also on the energy sector on the agriculture sector on the industrial and trading sectors. so what is being done? but of course, the gwinnett county cannot dedicate 100 percent of trying to dodge block mrs. russell and go on the political front. you recently been very critical of the un secretary general antonio. good cherish because he went to moscow a few days ago before going to keep. what did he bring back from russia?

anything the government thought was worth listening to you brought back my cell attack on in the building and which was straw that several people died from from that come to a panel. so were injured, taken to hospital was heavy ones. apart from that, not much has resulted not really not, not really his fault, but you know, the point is that i think he, this is a hard to make meaning many times is that the un needs reform. do you and the system has failed. so big time to prevent was in the past, prevent this war rushes aggression which has been going on for russia, staying secure to our having veto power options when russia is responsible for the

in 14, the world and the instability in the world today, they are making security decisions, we have cranium, time and time again, re issue about the form of the un. we will not then when we have the secretary general, but going to moscow and then coming to q, that also doesn't make sense. why go and do pay their respects to the, to the aggressive come come to ukraine? see what russia has done, and then go to, which was the demands of the, of the white route before the point i was trying to make. but ok to be fair to be fine. i also generals that the evacuation of people from the style on either of those still works in mary, has started and has had many success. so i'm grateful that i would love to believe that it's because that was these negotiations with you and

her treatment. that is the case then was great gratitude and great respect. i say thanks to the un secretary general along with other ukrainian m. p. 's. you spend some time shuttling between western capital's explaining ukraine's position. it's requirements, it's views, and especially it's suffering. and you've heard a lot of overarching expressions of solidarity and promises of full support. but you haven't been that impressed with them. have you? not of them. not with all of done, i was a, was the weather change boulevard to message your sale well received here. and grain de also allowed the cranial people to go on for so long because knowing that the unfeeling immense support from every single country in europe, every single country in europe on the continent was a great clash. but the crating is to keep calling to know that we're not alone in

this, and you know, that's the big european family to which we, we strive so much is that was, that's important. but of course, what i would like to see is that was would be back, talk my action, and we out slowly get that as a friend, get some weapons on ukraine, is getting more help in terms of financial assistance and rushes, getting more and more functions around that can be functions of becoming more i must. the only thing is it would have been better every say not just for you pray. if all of this was happening faster on a couple of months back. but then time, a few weeks ago, you accused western countries of doing the bare minimum and standing on the sidelines watching ukraine as if it was a boxing match or a tv documentary. you've changed your view since then. there's a lot more that minimum isn't there. today when i see

the weapons which are being delivered by the western allies and what i know for a fact from, with, towards the military, you know, i know me that the want to get to that to, to, to are they supposed to get some they are being used for good case, then i have no reason to be unhappy. i mean, these are weapons and the support, the main ideas for to keep coming until the plague russians aggression is stopped and returning back into to, within the borders of russia. you wanted a no fly zone, you didn't get it. do you want nato troops fighting alongside you in, in ukraine? well, that would be always the preferred option. but you understand why they're not at the same time, although that's always the preferred option. the more we have,

i like follows here by side with us. fighting for freedom and democracy and for peace in the world, the much. but at the same time, i bring in the has proven itself to be absolutely self sustainable when it comes to, to fighting of the russians as long as we have the means to fight. and if the native problem was on the international community provides us with those instruments, survivors with those weapons, and then we're good to go. we can always stand russian russian, we can keep fighting for the rest of europe. we can be the protectors of europe while protecting and treat them at the same time. but when tutoring is openly referred to as nuclear arsenal in the put it, he says on a higher state of alert, you wouldn't expect the west, the nature in particular not to take that threat seriously. would you in all honesty, she has made so many claims which she never went had one saying that he is

willing to deploy nuclear weapons in the crane will be suicidal to him, to his own country. and she's going people as well. and it's a good thing that it's not just him alone put in allied who is in charge of pressing that one, read the whole line of mind to start deploying nuclear weapons. and in all honesty, if she had gone completely insane which is clearly the chase, not all of his generals, and not all of the people in the line of command in moscow, have gone as badly and fame as to wish that upon themselves. do you still think that the un and nato, as you said, dinner tweet on march, the 13th were showing weakness and cowardice sat the un needs reforming very fast. nate, nate, nate, so i mean will find the nato is dividing by 2 by 2 in the

barren off. but the same time the different states are showing more, more confidence and more courage. and then that whole organization to get i think the courage touch ukrainian expect from that you know, not the snap line going around. thing be brave like ukraine. and this is what we want from our friends. but cowardice is, is babs, an unfair criticism, isn't it? an on fact to sit in the watch of nato and the un well, look, the you act as an organization has deep structural problems. i covered already the ground about russia being a country will be power on the security council being responsible for the insecurity. the un could have been peace thing, trips into ukraine,

through the general assembly decision. it has 4 feel provokes world war 3, but in all honesty, twitch, and that to attack any of the country for the very reason that he has no resources for doing that. for the very reason that he is concentrated on the crane and maybe a couple of other eastern european countries. because christian, his goal is to rebuild a russian empire. this is the ideology behind this war. this is the ideology behind how russia functions as a country. they want to know and they feel great, and then they want to bring in the worst possible sense, but history books since what they're doing, they're not interested in going ahead was or, and i don't know a call that america because they, they would not be able to, to pull that top when the world stands united in the same way that she cranium,

still united against person. that would be nothing that he could to this war could have stopped. wait, wait on the 3 days at the international experts, we're giving us a nation for standing up the 2nd largest song in the world having least 3 days to enter school. if ah, native horses you and forces would have intervened in time. the school could have been in 3 days, but could have been over for russian 3 days. there are plenty of western experts who dispute your assurance that booting would never press the button and use his nuclear missile. but i want to, in the time we have left to, to look at where the war might go. now, a month ago, president lansky said that negotiation was the only way out of the conflict. but he added, you cannot just demand from ukraine to recognize some territories as independent republics. these compromises are simply wrong. we have to come up with

a model where you crane will not lose its sovereignty and it's in its territorial integrity. do you have any idea what that model might look like? dots is very simple. i mean, russia committing a crime, crime of aggression. there's no doubt about that. i think it's very much clear for all of the international community. what russia doing, that kind of aggression has clear criteria as described in the number of conventions. and with that does also consequences, which pertain to the crime of aggression is committed. and the consequences fudge, the 1st of all, the crime must be stopped. hence, russia must retreat all of its strips from ukraine. the borders of ukraine must be reinstated, and then russia must pay reparations. it's as simple as that was know, while the negotiations that to be taking place any negotiations ukraine

presumably requested to give up any territories or to make any kind of other concessions to russia will fail. these negotiations will not bring long standing peace to ukraine to europe. fortune the world. these a kind of secession negotiations will only incite more aggression in the world. it will inspire the search and lead physicals the will to follow and produce stance, and they will inspire pension to go in for more land. the only solution is to make cautious stop the crime of aggression, to restore the territorial integrity of ukraine. and she may crush a pay for all the crimes that have committed and the territory of the crane. i'm for the crime of aggression against international peace and security. leslie of alan basil and cope. it's been very good to have you on cold sick. so thank you

very much indeed. thank you. thanks. it was a pleasure. ah ah, ah, with

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ah ah, this is dw news alive from berlin, rockets at ukraine, 2nd city hart kiff as rushes, eastern offensive drugs on security cameras capture the day time destruction of an amusement park in the city. but a russian victory there is far from searching ukrainian troops. se they've taken back several villages in the area. also coming up on the show, the european commission pushes a ban on russian oil commission of president or so under lion says the you should phase out and courts by the end of the year. critics say that's not fast.