researchers and scientists all over the world. moreno race against time. they are peers and rivals, with one daring goal to outsmart nature. more life starts may 28th on d, w. d. o. more than 2 months into the war in ukraine and both sides are taking heavy losses. while the bombardment goes on, moscow has kept up its relentless propaganda, accusing nato of conducting a proxy war with russia. my guest this week is less here. basil uncle, politician and human rights lawyer who joins me from keith. what makes her so sure, mister putin wouldn't press his nuclear button in all honesty and have made so many

pains which, which never once had said that he is willing, employ nuclear weapons and crane be suicidal to him in his ankle as well. in recent weeks, she's had blunt words for the west, and nato, accusing the alliance of cowardice and watching the war as if it were a movie. but she still feel that way. and what about a future peace deal with russia? is there any sign that all of what it might look like over a much more on conflict zone? blasio basil and go welcome to come pick zone. thank you. they had to be here more than 2 months into this war, at some 5000000 of your people have left as refugees, but now hundreds of thousands are coming back sometimes against the advice of local authorities. what does that tell you?

a jewel people, your country. it's the resilient and stubborn people that russia has to deal with. and we are very confident in victory. i'm very confident in the victory of freedom, london, dependence on people who you are seeing coming back other people more than anything . want to live in a free and independent ukraine. i don't think that your everything to be built from the ross of russia's aggression. we've seen ukrainians forced to confront unbelievable pain and loss almost on a daily basis. some of the spoken in interviews about that continuing disbelief, what, what's happening to them? do you share that feeling? every single ukrainian has lost something in the school? the was the people having to enjoy losses. close ones, like family members and their friends. people have lost property, have lost houses hines, everyone's at

a loss why it's happened because of russia. we know it's very clearly now how it was possible to even go as far as the russian was all the crimes they are committing currently. and this is something on facebook, this is something that many grading is my thought. still cannot follow together. what have you learned about yourself during this period? our lot, i think that's myself. like many of the korean women, we uncovered the strength that we never knew. we had before on this these past 2 months and the beds have been about unity have been about for us for every single costs. and for every single family we have discovered all myself does not. we are strong people. we are a nation united nation nation touch,

really, really love this country and as prepared to die for and the knowledge you say prepared to die for it, but the knowledge that life good and today tonight, tomorrow for you and those who you care about is that an ever present feeling and does that sap your focus or does it in a way inspire you are going to live with classlent on so have millions of ukrainian flu remained in ukraine. it's a strange feeling that you know that you know land tomorrow. but i think the fear of losing freedom, i'm losing lives in the free grain is greater than the fear of losing your own life . you mentioned the crimes being committed and you've been keeping track of some of the war crimes allegations that have been piling up against rational forces, especially when it comes to the the treatment of women and girls. how shocking has

that been for you? that is exactly what mine line cannot put together the puzzle pieces. all that right in front of me on the table with the facts. all right, committed against ukrainian women, ukrainian field from cranium on armed man. ah, i have the facts, numerous tortures and all their thousands of tables, sometimes with absolutely devastating pictures to go wisdom. but my brain cannot pro fast the cruelty behind it. the intentions of violence, this is, this is the restlessness with which i also had mentioned. it was the restlessness of the brain which leads to many sleepless nights. do you believe the russian commanders of ordered these crimes the ledge to have been committed or simply turned a blind eye to them? i believe that the strategy of the russian army that allows the leadership of russia the country to destroy ukraine,

ukrainians in every way possible was the russian book doing is more than just physically killing ukrainian soldiers. they are trying to raise the crating in nature from the face of us doing this in so many different ways. the fact that our children today for more than 2 months have been deprived of proper to cation the school. the close, the can, the gardens university. so, cost ukraine, that's only online schooling. children are not in schools learning things, not socializing that kids, but they are hiding in bomb shelters. they are in the basement, hiding from russian, artillery and from russian soldiers. hunting them down to kill them, to torture them, to rate on this is a future generational ukrainians, which will be growing up was huge for us with very, very limited education and learning skills. this is ukraine. we're talking about

a european nation, which has pride as well. yes. and the number of literal people, literate children of the 6 fast as a new patient successes of the children's schools and russia taking. that's why they are destroying that deliberately. what about the chances of bringing winnable prosecutions against any of the soldiers that have been committing these acts? so 5, believe 10 have been identified. a suspects from the unit that occupied butcher where the bodies of civilians apparently shot in summary executions were left lying in the streets. do you have any hope that these people might be brought to trial might be brought to justice? i'm confident that justice will be sun, will be solved, and the cranium courts and the within the cranium, justice system, it will be found in international conditional bodies such as the international

criminal court, the national court of justice. and i find that eventually the, well, we'll send out a special criminal tribunal for bruton or his cronies or the general soldiers. how can commit crimes in ukraine talk to me if you will about life from the occupation in cas on for instance. is there anything in rushes behavior there that's allow you to form any view of that long term aims? the russians long term aims. i gather the mass, been replace, the currency is being replaced with russian roubles reports that russian textbooks have been brought into schools that the internet has been disconnected and connect reconnected to moscow's own system. is this the template as far as you know, because the preparations being made for permanent occupation of the places where they are at the moment? looks like it. i mean, you ask me questions back when you're about dying. i've said to you that there's

a fear about using the 3. you can rephrase that by saying fear of living under such conditions that you have just described. her son, what? you just don't lose everything like physically because you're home at this point. but you can, you are told how to live, you are being deprived of configuration channels being deprived the language of your history of your car and see even, and you're being told that this is a, this is how you live. now, no choice. i think the was that every ukrainian half or on your, on many mighty, but they are all the cities which of the 2 eyes are the russians are trying to impose on all of the play. and again, this gets the cranium, nation, even more, united and even more determined to fight even harder. what's the role of a politician like you under the circumstances?

what, what can you do feel, constituents? how do you even keep track of the of the living in the dead today? it's much easier than back in the day i imagine because of the social media. and because everybody literally has devices with internet and tag can do a wider outreach. and this is how we lunch. they are the needs of the people. they're all a physician is to be here on the ground with the people of ukraine, supporting them using them with the pod, national park this can provide, system, can provide relief to the various needs and basic needs. here we're doing about getting food to people, medicine care for the sick and elderly, that sort of thing to military and a that you want to watch for how and what level do do the mechanics of daily life continue though under this constant bombardment? actually now it has become more or less back to normal if you like. i'm talking now

downtown. i seen the tree to lots of calls, lots of people passing by the shops or the task that error rate, iron founding. from time to time, i will learn to live with us in the background. i learn to, to, to make best of it on every single person has found space in their lives will and will helping others who was so than they are on the fingers. football in the chairs, politicians, government officials, apart from our regular duties about writing laws, debating them in parliament voting. also discussing them in committees, we find a lot of space and a lot of time for coordinating volunteer walk ordinating submitted every night or coordinating military assistance to, to the different territorial defense units into the different movie you even. so

every what, but he's doing that to keep ukraine safe, to keep the community safe and at the end of the tasty house. you said recently that 80 percent of your thoughts directed the now the war but 20 percent is thinking about the future and about reconstruction. how vital is that from a practical point of view? and i suppose from the point of view of morale as well, it's absolutely important to look to the future to know your past and to act in the presence. so because the conditions of such today, we have to concentrate on the presence to survive. and that's the main thing, but then again, we're talking about people coming back to grade. we're talking about people coming back to find destruction ah, in the challenge that have been occupied by russia and have been freaked by ukraine and he's don't built this is just a simple example of that. and to rebuild them to be

a vision or rebuild that needs to be a plan like there was a martial plan for europe. that must be a certain trans we grant. they would go with the brussels because essentially the situation we have come forward. we have started to devise, devise such a scheme as to how to really great and how much money is to be allocated to the u. k. o, we're reading a part of the, the kind of thing a big role as well. there is a whole team of british economists which is now locking ukrainian specialist next, but to also devise a plan on becoming recovery, which would try to also on the energy sector on the agriculture sector on the industrial and trading sectors. so what is being done? but of course, the cleaning account cannot dedicate 100 percent of trying to dodge block mrs vessel and go on the political front. you recently been very critical of the un secretary general antonio. good cherish because he went to moscow

a few days ago before going to keep. what did he bring back from russia? anything that your government thought was worth listening to you brought back at my cell attack on a building which was steroids and several people died from from that come to a tunnel. so were injured, taken to hospital, we have a partial that not, not much has resulted not really not, not really his fault now, but you know, the point is that i think he, this is the point of time to try to make meaning. many times is that the un needs reform. you entered the system has failed. so big time to prevent was in the past. prevent this war rushes aggression which has been going on, or russia bang out. having veto our options.

when russia is responsible for the insecure teens, the world, and the instability and the well today, they are making decisions. we have as the cranium time and time again, re issued out the form of the the us. we will not talk. then when we have secretary general, but going to moscow and then coming to q, that also doesn't make sense. why go undo, paid the respect to the case, to the aggressive come come to ukraine. see what russia has done and then go to which was the demands of the, of the white route before the point i was trying to make. but ok to be fair, to be fine. i also general's visit the evacuation of the people from the style of the still works in marrying has started and

has had many success. so i'm grateful that i would love to believe that it's because that was these negotiations with you and her treatment. that is the case, then was great gratitude and great respect. i say thanks to the un secretary general along with other ukrainian m. p. 's. you spend some time shuttling between western capital's explaining ukraine's position in requirements and views, and especially it's suffering. and you've heard a lot of overarching expressions of solidarity and promises a full support. but you haven't been that impressed with them. have you? lot of them or not with all of done was a was whether in regards to message or sale well received here in the grain de also allowed the cranium people to go on for so long. because knowing that the unfeeling immense support from every single country in europe,

every single country in europe on the continent was a great clash. but the cranes to keep coming to know that we're not allowed in this . and you know, that's the big european family to which we, we strive so much that was, that's important. but of course, what i would like to see is that was would be back talk by action. and we also only get that as a friend, get some weapons on ukraine, is getting more help in terms of financial assistance and rushes, getting more and more functions around the functions of becoming more i bought the only thing is it would have been better every not just for you pray, if all of this was happening faster on a couple of months back. but then time, a few weeks ago, you accused western countries of doing the bare minimum and standing on the sidelines watching ukraine as if it was a boxing match or a tv documentary. you've changed your view since then develop that minimum isn't

there. today when i see the weapons which are being delivered by the western allies and what i know for a fact from was towards the military, you know, i know me that the want to get to that to, to, to are they supposed to get some they are being used for good then i have no reason to be unhappy. i mean, these are weapons and the support, the main ideas for it to keep coming until the plague russians aggression is stopped and we tracked back into to, within the borders of russia. you wanted a no fly zone, you didn't get it. do you want nato troops fighting alongside you in, in ukraine? well, that would be always the preferred option. but you understand why they're not at

the same time, although that's always the preferred option. the more we have fallen here, side to side with us, fighting for freedom and democracy and for peace in the world. the much. but at the same time, i bring in on the has proven itself to be absolutely self sustainable when it comes to, to fighting of the russians as long as we have the means to fight. and if the native problem was on the international community provides us with those instruments, survived, weapons, and then we're good to go. we can, we stand russian, russia we can keep fighting for the rest of europe, can be the protectors of europe, while protecting our freedom of the same time. but when tutoring is openly referred to as nuclear arsenal and then put it, he says on a higher state of alert, you wouldn't expect the west, the nature in particular not to take that threat seriously. would you

in all honesty, she has made so many claims which she never went had one saying that he is willing to the point, nuclear weapons in the crane would be suicidal to him to his own country. and people as well. and it's a good thing that it's not just him alone put in a line who is in charge of pressing that one, read the whole line of mind to start deploying nuclear weapons on the in all honesty, if she had gone completely insane, which clearly did not all of his generals and not all of the people in the line of command and moscow, have gone as badly in fame as to wish that upon themselves. do you still think that the un and nato, as you said, dinner to eat on march, the 13th were showing weakness and cowardice sat the un needs reforming very fast. nate, nate, nate,

so i mean in all nato isn't biding by the rules and that will bear and off. but the same time the different states are showing more, more confidence and more courage. and then that whole organization, i think the courage touch ukrainians expect from that, you know now does snap flying going around thing being brave like ukraine. and this is what we want from our friends. but cowardice is, is babs, an unfair criticism, isn't it? and on fact, sit and watch of nato and the un well, look the, you know, the nice ation has deep structural problems. i covered already the ground about russia being a country with power on the security council being responsible for the insecurity.

the un could have been peace thing, trips into ukraine, through the general assembly decision. it has a don't feel provoking local, but in all honesty, twitching that to attack any of the country for the very reason that he has no resources for doing that. for the very reason that he is concentrated on the crane and maybe a couple of other eastern european countries. because christian, his goal is to rebuild a russian empire. this is the ideology behind this war. this is the ideology behind how russia functions as a country. they want to know and they feel great and, and then they want to bring in the worst possible sense, but history books since what they're doing, they're not interested in going ahead was or, and i don't know a call that america because they, they would not be able to,

to pull that top ah, when the world stands united in the same way that she cranium still united against proof, and that would be nothing that he could to this war could have stopped. wait, wait. the 3 days at the international experts were giving us a nation for standing up the 2nd largest song in the world. having we 3 days to enter school. if ah native forces you and forces would have intervened in time. the school could have been in 3 days, but could have been over for russia on 3 days. there are plenty of western experts who dispute your assurance that booting would never press the button and use his nuclear missile. but i want to, in the time we have left to, to look at where the war might go. now, a month ago, president lansky said that negotiation was the only way out of the conflict. but he added,

you cannot just demand from ukraine to recognize some territories as independent republics. these compromises are simply wrong. we have to come up with a model where you, craig will not lose its sovereignty and it's in its territorial integrity. do you have any idea what that model might look like? dots is very simple. i mean, russia's committing a crime, crime of aggression. there's no doubt about that. i think it's very much clear for all of the international community. what pressures doing that kind of aggression has clear criteria as described in the number of conventions. and with that does also consequences which pertain to the crime of aggression is committed. and the consequences of fudge, the 1st of all the crime must be stopped. hence, russia must retreat all of its strips from ukraine. the borders of ukraine must be reinstated, and then russia must pay reparations. it's as simple as that was know,

while the negotiation between be taking place any negotiations. ukraine is presumably requested to give up any territories or to make any kind of other concessions to russia will fail. these negotiations will not bring long standing peace to ukraine to europe. fortune the world. he's got a kind of secession negotiations will only incite more aggression in the world. it will inspire the search and leaders across the world to follow in stance, and they will inspire, continue to go in for more land. the only solution is to make cautious, stop the crime of aggression, to restore the territorial integrity of ukraine and jimmy crusher. pay for all the crimes that have committed and the territory of ukraine and the crime of aggression

against international peace and security. leslie of alan basil and cope. it's been very good to have you on cold sick so thank you very much indeed. thank you. thank you. it was a pleasure ah ah ah, with

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ah, ah ah, this is see w, news live from berlin. new crane says, russian forces have begun storming v as of the steel plot. hundreds of civilians are believed to still be trapped inside the hopes now penned on a new russian promise for a ceasefire to allow them to the mario full safely. also coming up, thousands of poles have opened their homes up to you cranes more refugees. but now the polish government is asking b e u from.