felicia is growing and young people clearly have the solution. the future launch loop is 77 percent every weekend on d w. b. more than 2 months since the war in ukraine and both sides are taking heavy losses while the bombardment goes on. moscow has kept up its relentless propaganda, accusing nato of conducting a proxy war with russia. my guest this week is leslie of us, the lanka, politician and human rights lawyer who joins me from key f. what makes her so sure, mister putin wouldn't press his nuclear button. in all honesty, he has made so many claims which, which never one had said that he is willing employ nuclear weapon crane

be suicidal to him in his ankle as well. in recent weeks, she's had blunt words for the west, and nato, accusing the alliance of cowardice and watching the war as if it were a movie. but she still feel that way. and what about a future piece deal with russia? is there any sign the tall of what it might look like over a much more on conflicts on lexia battle and go welcome to conflict zone. thank you. that he to be here more than 2 months into this war, at some 5000000 of your people have left as refugees, but now hundreds of thousands are coming back sometimes against the advice of local authorities. what does that tell you about your people, your country? it's resilient and stubborn people. russia has to deal with,

and we are very confident in our victory. i'm very confident in the victory of speech on monday, dependence on people who you are seeing coming by other people. more than anything want to live in a free and independent ukraine. i don't think that your everything to bill from the ross of russia aggression. we've seen ukrainians forced to confront unbelievable pain and loss almost on a daily basis. some spoken in interviews about that. continuing disbelief and what was happening to them. do you share that feeling? every single ukrainian has lost something in the school? the was the people having to enjoy losses of close ones, like family members and their friends. people have lost property, have lost houses. hines, everyone's at a loss why it's happened because of russia now,

it's very clearly now how it was possible to even go as far as the russian bed was, all the crimes they are committing currently. and this is stopping on facebook. this is something that many grains my thought still cannot follow together. what have you learned about yourself during this period? our lot, i think that's myself. like many of the crating in women, we uncovered the strength that we never knew we had before. on this, these past 2 months and the beds have been about unity have been about for us for every single costs. and for every single family we have discovered all myself does not. we are strong people. we are a nation united nation and nation touch. really, really love this country and is prepared to die for. and the knowledge is you say

prepared to die for it, but the knowledge that life good and today tonight, tomorrow for you and those who you care about. is that an ever present feeling and does that sap your focus or does it in a way inspire you are going to live with it personally on so have millions of ukrainian flu remained in ukraine. it's a strange feeling that you know that can all am tomorrow, but i think the fear of losing freedom and losing lives in the fleet grain is greater than the fear of losing your own life. you mentioned the crimes that are being committed and you've been keeping track of some of the war crimes allegations that have been piling up against russian forces, especially when it comes to the the treatment of women and girls. how shocking has that been for you? that is exactly what my mind cannot put together. the puzzle, these pieces,

all that right in front of me on the table with the facts. all right. committed against ukrainian women, ukrainian field from cranium on arms mad. ah, i have the fact. you must torture all their thousands of tables sometimes with absolutely devastating pictures to go with them. but my brain cannot process the cruelty behind it. the intense violence this is, this is the restlessness with which i also had lunch. and that was the rest of the brain. which then leads to many sleepless nights, do you believe the russian commanders of ordered these crimes, the alleged have been committed or simply turned a blind eye to them? i believe that the strategy of the russian army, the while as of the leadership of russia, the country to destroy ukraine and ukrainians in every way possible, was the russians showing,

is more than just physically killing ukrainian soldiers. they are trying to raise the crating in nature from the face of us doing this in so many different ways. the fact that our children today for more than 2 months have been deprived of proper education. the schools are closed, the can, the gardens, university cost ukraine. that's only online schooling. the children are not in school learning. the things not socializing was that kids, but they are hiding from shelters. they are in the basement hiding from russian artillery and from russian soldiers, hunting them down to kill them, to torture them. trade on this is a future generation of ukrainians, which will be growing up, was huge for months on with very, very limited education and learning skills. this is ukraine. they're talking about a european nation, which has pride as well. yes. and the number of literal people,

literate children of the 6 fast as a new patient successes of the children's schools and russia. taking that way, they are destroying that deliberately. what about the chances of bringing winnable prosecutions against any of the soldiers that have been committing these acts so far believe 10 have been identified a suspect from the unit that occupied butcher where the bodies of civilians apparently shot in summary executions were left lying in the streets, do you have any hope that these people might be brought to trial might be brought to justice? i'm confident that justice will be son, will be served of the cranium courts and the, the within the cranial justice system. it will be in international conditional bodies such as the international criminal court, the national court of justice. and i found that eventually the wolf that out

a special criminal tribunal for bruton or his cronies or the general soldiers committing crimes in ukraine. talk to me, if you will, about life from the occupation in pass on for instance. is there anything in russia's behavior that allow you to form any view of their long term aims? the russians long term aims. i gather the mass, been replace, the currency is being replaced with russian roubles. reports that russia textbooks have been brought into schools that the internet has been disconnected and connect reconnected to moscow's own system. is this the template as far as you know, because their preparations being made for permanent occupation of the places where they are at the moment. it looks like it. i mean, you asked me questions back here about dying. i said to you, there's a fear about using the 3. you can rephrase that by saying,

fear of living under such conditions that you have just described. her son. well, you just don't lose everything like physically because you're home at this point. but you can, you are told how to live, you are being deprived of configuration channels being deprived language of your history, of your car and see even, and you're being told that this is it, this is how you live. now. no choice. i think the was that every ukrainian or us here on monday, but they are all the cities which of the 2 eyes were the russians are trying to impose on all of the play. and again, this gets the cranium, nation, even more, united and even more determined to fight even harder. what's the role of a politician like you under the circumstances? what, what can you do feel, constituents? how do you even keep track of the of the living in the dead today?

it's much easier than back in the day i imagine because of the social and because everybody literally has. busy devices with internet and i can do a wider outreach, and this is how we lunch. they are the needs of the people. the role of physician is to be on the ground with the people of ukraine, supporting them using them with the parts of national park. this can provide system who can provide relief to the various needs and we think need see, are we talking about getting food to people madsen care for the sick and elderly, that sort of thing to military and a that you wanna watch for how and what level do do the mechanics of daily life continue though under this constant bombardment? actually, now it has become more or less back to normal if you like. i'm talking now from downtown. i seen the tree to lot of calls,

lots of people passing by the shops or the task that we have every iron founding from time to time. and we learn to live with us in the background on lunches to, to make best of it on every single person has found space in their life and helping others who was so than they are on the fingers. football in the chairs, politicians, government officials, apart from our regular duties about writing laws, debating them in parliament voting. also discussing them in committees, we find a lot of space and a lot of time for coordinating volunteer coordinators military night. but coordinating military assistance to, to the different territorial defense units into the different you even. so every what, but he's doing that to keep ukraine safe, to keep the community safe. and at the end of the tasty house,

you said recently that 80 percent of your thoughts director that the now the war but 20 percent is thinking about the future and about reconstruction. how vital is that from a practical point of view? and i suppose from the point of view of morale as well, it's absolutely important to look to the future to know your past and to act the present. so because the conditions of such today that we have to concentrate on the presence to survive. and that's the main thing, but then again, we're talking about people coming back to grade record, talking about people coming back to find destruction in the channels that have been occupied by russia. and how be frank by craig, and he's don't built this is just a simple example of that and to rebuild from any to be a vision or rebuild that needs to be a plan like there was a marshall plan for europe. that must be

a certain trans grain today with the brussels because essentially the situation we have come forward, we have started to devise, devise such a scheme as to how to really great and how much money is to be allocated to it. when you can, you know that a little reading of part of the, the case being a big role as well. there is a whole team or british economist which is now locking ukrainian specialists next, but to also devise a plan of becoming recovery, which would try to also on the energy sector on that recall sector on the industrial and trading sectors. so what is being done? but of course, the gwinnett county folks cannot dedicate 100 percent of time to walk mrs vessel and go on the political front. you recently been very critical of the un secretary general antonio. good cherish. because he went to moscow a few days ago before going to keep. what did he bring back from russia?

anything that your government thought was worth listening to the brought back at my cell attack on the building, which was stroy and several people died from from that kind of panel. so were injured, taken to hospital was heavy ones from that? not, not much has resulted not really not, not really his fault. no, but you know, the point is that i think he, this is the point of time to try to make meaning. many times is that the un needs reform. you entered the system has failed, failed big time to prevent was in the past and to prevent this war rushes aggression which has been going on for a washer. staying on the security council, having our option, if not,

when russia is responsible for the in $614.00 the world and the instability in the world today. they are making security decisions. we have as he, cranium time and time again re issue out there for most of the us. we were not then when we had the secretary general, but going to moscow and then coming to q, that also doesn't make sense. why go? i'm do pay the respect, changed to the aggress. come come to ukraine. see what russia has done, and then go to, which was the demands of the, of the white route before the point i was trying to make. but ok to be fair to be fine. austin, the channels visit, the evacuation of the people from the style of the still works in mary has started and has had many success. so i'm grateful that i would love to believe that it's because that was the negotiation was un secretary

general, and that is the case then was great, grassy change. great respect. i say thanks to the un secretary general along with other ukrainian m. p. 's. you spend some time shuttling between western capital's explaining ukraine's position. it's requirements, it's views, and especially it's suffering. and you've heard a lot of overarching expressions of solidarity and promises of full support. but you haven't been that impressed with them. have you? lot of them or not with all of done i was a, was the weather in solar guard to message or sale well received here in the grain. they also allowed the cranium people to go on for so long because knowing that the unfeeling immense support from every single country in europe, every single country in europe on the continent was a great clash, but the ukrainians to keep calling to know that were not alone and this,

and you know, that's the big european family to which we, we strive so much that was, that's important. but of course, what i would like to see is that he was, would be back talk by action. and we are slowly getting that as a friend, get some weapons on ukraine, is getting more help in terms of financial assistance and rushes, getting more and more functions around. it can be functions of becoming more. i must. the only thing is it would have been better every make, not just we pray. if all of this was happening faster on a couple of months back. but then time, a few weeks ago, you accused western countries of doing the bare minimum and standing on the sidelines watching ukraine as if it was a boxing match or a tv documentary. you've changed your view since then develop that minimum isn't

there. today when i see the weapons which are being delivered by the western allies and what i know for a fact from was towards the military unit, cost me that need to get to that to, to, to where they supposed to get them. they are being used for good then i have them to be unhappy. i mean, he's a weapons and the support, the main ideas for him to keep coming until the plague russian aggression is stopped and returning back into to, within the borders of russia. you wanted a no fly zone, you didn't get it. do you want nato troops fighting alongside you in, in ukraine? well, that would be always the preferred option. but you understand why they're not at the same time, although that's always the preferred option that we have. i like follows his side

to side with us biting freedom and democracy and for peace in the world the much. but at the same time, i gradient has proven itself to be absolutely self sustainable when it comes to, to fighting of the russians as long as we have the means to fight. and if the native problem on the international community provides us with those instruments, survive those weapons. and then we're good to go. we can, we stand russian, russian, we can keep fighting for the rest of europe. we can be the protect us of europe while protecting our freedom at the same time. but when tutoring is open, the referred to his nuclear arsenal and the put it, he says on the highest state of alert, you wouldn't expect the west, the nature in particular not to take that threat seriously. would you in all honesty and has made so many claims,

which she never went ahead was saying that he is willing to do when you play or weapons in the crane will be suicidal to him to his own country. and she's very people as well. and it's a good thing that it's not just him alone put in allied who is in charge of pressing that's one red bunch. that's a whole line of land to start deploying nuclear weapons. and in all honesty, if she had gone completely insane which clearly did, not all of his generals and not all of the people in the line of command and moscow have gone badly and same as to wish death upon themselves. and you still think that the un and nato, as you said, dinner tweet on march, the 13th were showing weakness and cowardice sat the un needs reforming very fast. nate, nate, nate, so i mean will find the nato isn't biting by to buy in the book

fair and off. but at the same time the different states are showing more, more confidence and more courage. and then that whole organization to get i think this is the courage such ukrainians expect from that. you know, not the snap line going around. thank the brave like ukraine. and this is what we want from our friends. but cowardice is, is babs. an unfair criticism, isn't it? an on fact to sit and watch of nato and the un, well, look, you act as an organization has deep structural problems. i covered already the ground about russia being a country because our security council being responsible for the insecurity,

the un could have been peace thing, trips into ukraine through the general assembly decision. it has 4 feel provoking world war 3. but in all honesty put in that to attack any of the country for the very reason that he has no resources for doing that. for the very reason that he is concentrated on the crane and maybe a couple of other eastern european countries. because christian, his goal is to rebuild a russian empire. this is the ideology behind this war, the ideology behind how russia functions of the country they want to know and they feel great, and then they want to bring in the worst possible sense bucks. history books says what they're doing, they're not interested in going ahead was or, and i don't know a car that america because they, they would not be able to, to pull a top when the world stands united in the same way that she cranium,

united against britain there would be nothing that he could to this war could have stopped. wait, wait the 3 days at the international experts, we're giving us a nation for standing up the 2nd largest song in the world who's having least 3 days to end the school. if ah native forces you and forces would have intervened in time. the school could have been in 3 days, but could have been over for russia on 3 days. there are plenty of western experts who dispute your assurance that booting would never press the button and use his nuclear missiles. but i want in the time we have left to, to look at where the war might go. now. a month ago, president lansky said that negotiation was the only way out of the conflict, but he added, you cannot just demand from ukraine to recognize some territories as independent republics. these compromises are simply wrong. we have to come up with

a model where you crane will not lose its sovereignty and it's in its territorial integrity. do you have any idea what that model might look like? is very simple. i mean, russia committing a crime, crime of oppression. that's no doubt about that. i think very much clear all of the international community, what russia is doing that kind of aggression has clear criteria as described in the number of conventions. and with that does also consequences, which pertain to the crime of aggression is committed. and the consequences of fudge the 1st of all the crime must be stopped. hence, russia must retreat. all of its strips from ukraine, the borders of the crane must be reinstated. and then russia must pay reparations. it's as simple as that was know all the negotiations that can be taken place any

negotiations. ukraine is presumably requested to give up any territories or to make any kind of other confessions. russia will fail . these negotiations will not bring long standing peace to ukraine to europe. fortune the world. these good kind of secession negotiations will only incite more aggression in the world. it will inspire the search and leaders across the world to follow and produce stance, and they will inspire, continue to go in for more than the only solution is to make cautious stop the crime of aggression to restore the territorial integrity of ukraine. and she may crush a pay for all the crimes that she has committed, and the territory of the crane and the crime of aggression against international peace and security. leslie of olive. but still unco,

it's been very good to have you on cold sick. so thank you very much indeed. thank you. thank you. a blue blue with

you to the point. strong opinions, clear positions, international perspective with russia now pushing for full control of southern eastern ukraine. western countries are ramping up. military support for kids. is the west to becoming a party to the conflict. find out on to the point to the point in 30 minutes on d, w. i. my job is to go around the world,

investigate different issues to see how are people ferrying with respect to the right to housing. women is fighting for the basic right to housing. desolate house is thinking and that's their plan for all the buildings is to give people like us. so stop on the highlight. tour of london talker. see properties. push for a basic ride to housing in 75 minutes on d w. oh we're all good to go beyond the obvious well, as we take on the world, 8 hour, i do all the fans, we're all about the stories that matter to you.

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understand this new culture. so you are not a visitor now the guests. you want to become a citizen. in so migrants your platform for reliable information. mm hm. ah, this is d w. news, and these are our top stories. rushes president is calling on ukraine's last remaining defenders. maria pull to surrender. vladimir putin says he will allow the civilians trapped in the eyes of small steel plant to evacuate. heavy fighting is reading is being reported. there are you in convoy is expected to arrive and maria pull on friday to begin the evacuations.