a saxophone operator who wrote her master's thesis on put potato railing to read a turn on. well, it gets more ridiculous from their d. w that are true list. be german must read. more than 2 months into the war in ukraine on both sides are taking heavy losses. while the bombardment goes on, moscow has kept up its relentless propaganda accusing nato of conducting a proxy war with russia. my guest this week is less he of us elonka politician and human rights lawyer who joins me from key f. what makes her so sure, mister putin wouldn't press his nuclear button. in all honesty, clinton has made so many claims which watched never once had said that he had swimming,

employ nuclear weapons and crane would be suicidal to him and his khaki and his ankle as well. in recent weeks, she's had blunt words for the west and nato. accusing the alliance of cowardice and watching the war as if it were a movie. but she still feel that way. and what about a future peace deal with russia? is there any sign at all of what it might look like over and much more on conflicts on lexia basil and go welcome to complex zone. thank you to pay to be here more than 2 months into this war at some 5000000 of your people have left as refugees, but now hundreds of thousands are coming back sometimes against the advice of local authorities. what does that tell you about your people, your country? it's resilient and stubborn people. russia has to deal with,

and we are very confident in our victory. i'm very confident in the victory of speed on monday and dependence on people who you're seeing coming by the people more than anything want to live in a free and independent ukraine. i don't think that's new everything to build it from the rock of russia aggression. we've seen ukrainians forced to confront unbelievable pain and loss almost on a daily basis. some of the spoken in interviews about that continuing disbelief and what was happening to them. do you share that feeling every single ukrainian has lost something in the school? the was the people having enjoy losses of close ones, like family members and their friends. people have lost property, have lost houses. hines, everyone's at a loss why it's happened because of russia now,

it's very clearly now how it was possible to even go as far as the russian bed was all the crimes they are committing currently. and this is something on facebook. this is something that many grains my fun still cannot follow together. what have you learned about yourself during this period? our lot, i think that's myself. like many of the crating in women, we uncovered the strength that we never knew we had before. on this, these past 2 months and the beds have been about unity have been about for us for every single costs. and for every single family we have discovered all myself does not. we are strong people. we are a nation united nation on nation touch. really, really love this country and as prepared to die for and the knowledge you say

prepared to die for it, but the knowledge that life good and today tonight, tomorrow for you and those who you care about. is that an ever present feeling and does that sap your focus or does it in a way inspire you are going to live with bustling on so have millions of ukrainian flu remained in ukraine. it's a strange feeling that you know that can all am tomorrow, but i think the fear of losing freedom and losing lives in a flea grain is greater than the fear of losing your life. you mentioned the crime sense of being committed and you've been keeping track of some of the war crimes allegations that have been piling up against russian forces, especially when it comes to the the treatment of women and girls. how shocking has that been for you? that is exactly what my mind cannot put together. the puzzle pieces. all that right

in front of me on the table was the fast grapes committed against ukrainian women, ukrainian field from cranium on arms mad. ah, i have the fact numerous tortures and all their thousands of tables sometimes with absolutely devastating pictures to go with them. but my brain cannot process the cruel behind to the intentions of violence. this is, this is the restlessness with which i also had lunch and it was the rest of the brain which then leads to many sleepless nights. do you believe the russian commanders of ordered these crimes, the alleged have been committed or simply turned a blind eye to them? i believe that the strategy of the russian army, the while as of the leadership of russia, the country to destroy ukraine and ukrainians in every way possible, was the russians showing,

is more than just physically killing ukrainian soldiers. they are trying to raise the crating in nature from the face of us doing this in so many different ways. the fact that our children today for more than 2 months have been deprived of proper to cation. the schools are closed, the can, the gardens, universities across ukraine, only online schooling on the children are not in schools learning things not socializing that kids, but they are hiding from shelters. they are in the basement, hiding from russian, artillery and from russian soldiers. hunting them down to kill them, to torture them, to rate on this is a future generation of ukrainians, which will be growing up. was huge for us with very, very limited education and learning skills. this is ukraine. we're talking about a european nation, which has pride as well. yes. and the number of literal people,

literate children of the 6 fast as a new patient successes of the children's schools and russia taking. that's why they are destroying that deliberately. what about the chances of bringing winnable prosecutions against any of the soldiers that have been committing these acts so far believe 10 have been identified. a suspects from the unit that occupied butcher where the bodies of civilians apparently shot in summary executions were left lying in the streets. do you have any hope that these people might be brought to trial might be brought to justice? i am confident that justice will be sun, will be served on the cranial court and to be within the cranium, justice system. it will be 5 in international conditional bodies such as the international criminal court, the national court of justice. and i found that eventually the well will set up

a special criminal tribunal for bruton or his cronies or the general soldiers. how can commit to crimes in ukraine? talk to me if you will, about life from the occupation in cas on for instance. is there anything in russia's behavior that allow you to form any view of their long term aims? the russians long term aims. i gather the mass, been replace, the currency is being replaced with russian roubles. reports that russia, textbooks have been brought into schools that the internet has been disconnected and connect reconnected to moscow's own system. is this the template as far as you know, because the preparations being made for permanent occupation of the places where they are at the moment. i mean, you ask me questions back when you're about dying. i said to you, there's a fear about using the 3. you can rephrase that by thank year of living under such

conditions that you have just described her son. well, you just don't lose everything like physically because you're home at this point. but you, you can, you are told how to live. you are being deprived of configuration channels being deprived the language of your history of your car and see even and you're being told that this is it. this is how you live. now. no choice. i think the was that every ukrainian or us here on monday, but they are all the cities which of the 2 eyes were the russians are trying to impose on all of the plane. and again, this gets the cranium, nation, even more, united and even more determined to fight even harder. what's the role of a politician like you under the circumstances? what, what can you do feel, constituents? how do you even keep track of the of the living in the dead today?

it's much easier than back in the day i imagine because of the social and because everybody literally has. busy devices with internet and can do a wider outreach and this is how we lunch. they are the needs of the people that are all of petition is to be here on the ground. was the people of ukraine supporting them using them with the parts of national park. this can provide, systems can provide relief to the various needs. and we think need, sir, we talked about getting food to people madsen care for the sick and elderly. that sort of thing. to military and a that you wanna watch for how and what level do do the mechanics of daily life continue though under this constant bombardment? actually, now it has become more or less back to normal. if you like. i'm talking now from downtown. i seen the tree to lot of cause lots of people die with trumps or the

task they never have air raid sirens pounding from time to time. i will learn to live with in the background. i learn to, to, to make best of it on every single person has found space in their life and helping others who i was so than they are on the fingers. football in the chairs, politicians, government officials, apart from our regular duties about writing laws, debating them in parliament voting. also discussing them in committees, we find a lot of space and a lot of time for coordinating volunteer coordinators military night, coordinating military assistance to, to the different turturro defense units into the different when you so every what, but he's doing that to keep ukraine safe to keep the community safe and at the end

of the tasty house, you said recently that 80 percent of your thoughts director that the now the war but 20 percent thinking about the future and about reconstruction. how vital is that from a practical point of view? and i suppose from the point of view of morale as well, it's absolutely important to look to the future to know you'll pass into the presence. so because the conditions of such today that we have to concentrate on the presence to survive. and that's the main thing. but then again, we're talking about people coming back to craig. we're talking about people coming back to find destruction in the house that have been occupied by russia and have been freaked by ukraine. and he's don't built this is just a simple example of that. and to rebuild them to be a vision rebuilt. that needs to be a plan, like there was a marshall plan for europe. there must be a certain plans we grant,

they would go with the brussels because essentially the situation we have come forward, we have started to devise, devise such a scheme as to how to we need great and how much money is to be allocated to the u k, all that a little reading a part of the, the case thing a big role as well. there is a whole team or british economist which is now working with crania specialists next, but to also devise a plan of becoming recovering, which we try to show on the energy sector on that recall sector on the industrial and trading sectors. so what is being done, but of course the gwinnett county folks cannot dedicate 100 percent of time to dutch walk mrs vessel and go on the political front. you recently been very critical of the un secretary general antonio. good cherish because he went to moscow a few days ago before going to keep. what did he bring back from russia?

anything the government thought was worth listening to you brought back at michelle attack on the building and which was stroy and several people died from from that come to a tunnel. so were injured, taken to hospital was heavy ones. apart from that, not much has resulted not really though not, not really his own, but you know, the point is i think he, this is a tried to make many times that the un needs reform. you entered the system has failed, failed, big time to prevent was in the past and prevent this war rushes, aggression which has been going on for a while. just bang on the secure account. having power option when

russia is responsible for the insecurity, the world and the instability and the well today they are making security decisions . we have cranium, time and time again, re issue out there for most of the us. we will not talk. then when we have secretary general, but going to moscow and then coming to q, that also doesn't make sense. why go undo, pay their respects from the changed to the aggressive come come to ukraine? see what russia has done, and then go to, which was the demands of the, of the white route before the point i was trying to make. but ok to be fair to be fine. austin channels is it the evacuation of the people from the style of the still works in mary has started and has had many success. so i'm grateful that i would love to believe that it's

because that was these negotiations was un secretary general, and that is the case then was great, crash changed, great respect. i say thanks to the un secretary general along with other ukrainian m. p. 's. you spend some time shuttling between western capital's explaining ukraine's position. it's requirements and views, and especially it's suffering. and you've heard a lot of overarching expressions of solidarity and promises of full support. but you haven't been that impressed with them. have you? lot of them not with all of done, i was, i was wondering, boulevard, to message your sale well received here in ukraine. they also allowed the cranium people to go on for so long. because knowing that the unfeeling immense support from every single country in europe, every single country in europe on the continent was a great push the ukrainians to keep calling to know that we are not allowed in this

. and you know, that's the big european family to which we, we strive so much that was that important. but of course, what i would like to see is that it was would be back talk by action. and we are slowly get that as a friend and get some weapons on ukraine is getting more help in terms of financial assistance and russia getting more and more sanctions around that can be functions of becoming more i bought. the only thing is it would have been better every make, not just we pray. if all of this was happening faster on a couple of months back. but then time, a few weeks ago, you accused western countries of doing the bare minimum and standing on the sidelines watching ukraine as if it was a boxing match or a tv documentary. you've changed your view since then. there's a lot more that minimum isn't there. today when i see

the weapons which are being delivered by the western allies and what i know for a fact from was towards the military, you know, trying to pass me that the what, cuz get to that to, to, to where they supposed to get some they are being used for good then i have them to be unhappy. i mean, caesar weapons and the support the main ideas for to keep coming until the plague russians, aggression is stopped and returning back into to, within the borders of russia. you wanted a no fly zone, you didn't get it. do you want nato troops fighting alongside you in, in ukraine? well, that would be always the preferred option. but you understand why they're not at the same time, although that's always the preferred option that we have. i like fall is here side

to side with us, of biking, freedom and democracy and for peace in the world. the much. but at the same time, i bring in me has proven itself to be absolutely self sustainable when it comes to, to fighting of the russians as long as we have the means to fight. and if the native problem on the international community provides us with those instruments, survive those weapons. and then we're good to go. we can, we stand russian russia, we can keep fighting for the rest of europe. we can be the protectors of europe while protecting our freedom at the same time. but when tutoring is openly referred to his nuclear arsenal and then put it, he says on a higher state of alert, you wouldn't expect the west, the nature in particular not to take that threat seriously. would you in all honesty should have made so many claims which,

which he never went ahead was saying that he is willing to deploy nuclear weapons in the crane will be suicidal to him to his own country. and people as well. and it's a good thing that it's not just him alone put in allied who is in charge of pressing . that's one read budget, does a whole line of mind to start deploying nuclear weapons on the, in all honesty, if you have gone completely insane, which is clearly the chase, not all of his generals, and not all of the people in the line of command and moscow have gone as badly insane as to wish upon themselves. do you still think that the un and nato is you said dinner tweet on march 13th, we're showing weakness and cowardice sat, the un needs reforming very fast. nate, nate, nate, so i mean in all family nato isn't biding by by the

baron off. but the same time the different states are showing more, more confidence and more courage ah, than that whole organization to get. i think the courage touch ukrainians expect from that you know, not does snap line going around thing being brave like ukraine. and this is what we want from all french. but cowardice is, is babs, an unfair criticism, isn't it? and on fact, sit in the watch of nato and the un well look for you. and as an organization has deep structural problems. i coverage already the ground about worshipping our country because our security council being responsible for the insecurity, the un could have been peace thing,

trips into ukraine through the general assembly decision. it has 4 feel provokes world war 3, but in all honesty, twitch, and that to attack any of the country for the very reasons that he has no resources for doing that. for the very reason that he is concentrated on the crane and maybe a couple of other eastern european countries. because christian, his goal is to rebuild a russian empire. this is the ideology behind this war. this is the ideology behind how russia functions as a country. they want and that, and they feel great and they want to bring in the worst possible sense, but history books, which is what they're doing. they're not interested in going ahead was or, and night. and i a call mary, because because they, they would not be able to, to pull that top when the world stands united in the same way that she cranium,

still united against britain, there would be nothing that he could do this war could have stopped. wait, wait, the 3 days at the international experts were giving us as a nation for standing up to the 2nd largest song in the world who having least 3 days to enter school. if ah, native horses, you and forces would have intervened in time. the swan could have been in 3 days, but could have been over for russia and 3 days. there are plenty of western experts who dispute your assurance that booting would never press the button and use his nuclear missile. but i want to, in the time we have left to, to look at where the war might go. now, a month ago, president lansky said that negotiation was the only way out of the conflict. but he added, you cannot just demand from ukraine to recognize some territories as independent republics. these compromises are simply wrong. we have to come up with

a model where you crane will not lose its sovereignty and it's in its territorial integrity. do you have any idea what that model might look like? is very simple. i mean, russia committing a crime, crime of oppression. there's no doubt about that. i think it's very much clear all international community. what russia's doing, that kind of aggression has clear criteria, has the prime number of conventions. and with that does also consequences, which pertain to when crime of aggression is committed. and the consequences of fudge, the 1st of all, the crime must be stopped. hence, russia must retreat all of its strips from ukraine. the borders of ukraine must be reinstated, and then russia must pay reparations. it's as simple as that was know, while the negotiation between be taking place any negotiations. ukraine

is presumably requested to give up any territories or to make any kind of other concessions to russia will fail. these negotiations will not bring long standing peace to ukraine to europe. fortune the world. these kind of succession negotiations will only inside more aggression and the world. it will inspire the search and leaders across the world to follow and put in a stance. and they were inspired to go in for more land. the only solution is to make cautious, stop the crime of aggression, to restore the territorial integrity of ukraine, and to make russia pay for all the crimes. that's a tough committed and the territory of ukraine and the crime of aggression against international peace and security. leslie of alan basil and cope. it's been very

good to have you on conflict so thank you very much indeed. thank you. thank you. ah ah ah, with

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ah, this is dw news, and these are our top story. ukraine says all women, children, and elderly people have been evacuated from the as of style steel plant and mario poll. but ukrainian fighters remain trapped inside the plant is the only part of mario paul, still under ukrainian control. russia has stepped up. it's a tax across ukraine. he's an observer say russia wants a show of force to coincide with its victory day holiday on monday. mm.