in 60 minutes on d w, ah, what people have to say to us, ah, that's why we listened stories reporter every weekend on d. w. hello and welcome to a special edition, offer 77 percent. now from for national dependency on older men, to no access to contraceptives. bound many reasons why team girls me find themselves unexpectedly pregnant. we had to namibia with either kamani to ask why teenage pregnancies are so prevalent in been dogs, low income communities. and what kind of challenges teen moms are facing. let's have a look. ah,

hello and welcome to another episode of the 7 to 7 percent. this week we are in fin took in a me be a more specifically in havana, the informal settlement that you see behind me. and it's because statistically low income countries are more likely to experience the problem of early pregnancy is a teen pregnancies compared to high income countries. and particularly in this area, you can imagine that it's a serious problem. and that's why we're here. and we want to find out, why does this problem exist? what are the consequences and what can we do to put an end to it? who better to answer these questions for me than some nubians. and we're going to begin with by greece. she's actually looking very scared, right? oh. but that's right. so by greece, you're a teen mom. and you made headlines here in america because you actually got pregnant at the age of 14. i can imagine that that was a very scary experience for you. and can you tell me what happened? my parents had leg a funeral of my grandmother in did goldlick big and for the they didn't know that i

had a boyfriend they time. but then when they found out that i had a boyfriend, it's when they started asking the questions, they did just that having sex in all of it, and it's an acre lake, became open with them. and then i told him that yes, i've had sex in. i didn't get my period for so long in all of it and they decided that we should go for tests. so winful the tests and then they came up positive. they were okay, they were made obviously, but the way of but accepting. yeah. uh huh. in the the knowing that am i, if they had a hit, their beggs is what kept me going right now. but what happened when you got the news when you knew for yourself that for sure, i don't have my period and it's very, very likely that i'm pregnant. what was going through your minds? okay. um i was it though, it just actually time where was depressed and i was doing my scores at school were very weak alto can i thought about like having abortions in order for it. like i had to thought of having an abortion,

but i actually never like tried to maybe go to the shop or maybe look for something or gone on the internet to search in all of it. so yeah. so the thought crossed your mind, but you locked it against it. how old was your boyfriend at the time? by the way? he was 21. nathan, 21. so you are a 14 year old dating a 21 year old. ah, let me just come to emory here for a 2nd because she's also a teen mom. i'll be at the fact that she got pregnant when he was 17 right. did you also have an older boyfriend and is it normal in namibia to have somebody who's significantly older than you as a boyfriend when you're a teenager? here i was having an older boyfriend. he was like 25. but there is an i took all the equivalent was like the nice to support see not all of those things. yeah. that's why. so what are some of the things that your boyfriend is providing for? you just explained to me, please don't latrice, especially medical school. so your parents were not in a position to do this for you imagine?

yes. ok. and so you figure out that your pregnant is a scary for you when you find out what you thinking. i only found that when also months because i was like, i'm still getting my period and then like i was at school when my teacher what it was, a male teacher, he told me that my breasts a big in like he wanted they wanted that in. so i went with him to the hospital and then he called my parents, but they my parents, it, but i must move out of the house in goin, steve, my boyfriend, the one that made me pregnant. so i had to move by then the guy was in denying when i told him that i'm pregnant. yeah. he to night until the kids was after i gave birth until she was 8 months less at them. he except at the child. yeah. because we went for the any. okay. and have your parents taken you back in since that time? yes. okay. let's come to immaculate who's on this site. she's a senior research fellow at the university of namibia and i just want to put things into context. here is what we're hearing a familiar tale here in

a media or in the larger african context. what did the figure say? a tennis pregnancy is indeed a serious concern. globally, then ambien government have what we call the a indication monitoring information systems. where unwisely, the schools must be able to indicate to what has happened to those learners who are not returning rates. a significant number of the learners that are not coming big. i actually do to pregnancy. so early in there you can seed around 40 percent 40 percent langston's, while learners are not returning to school. wow. ok. i want to speak to where is he west, yet he is out, west is a traditional dancer. he would consider himself a traditionalist, you can see from his jewelry, but you also grew up in areas like this, you know, in formal settlements. and you're actually working with youth in these areas. why is the rate of teen pregnancy so high? a lot of kids are being approached by adults or bit may be bigger boys. yeah. so

this is also to get a fresh fruit. well, what do you mean? a fresh fruit? fresh fruit is like a limousine. these are guys also proud of themselves and also bring the car been amongst them self and said that i'm proud of myself because i've been making maybe 15 gills of visions or something like that. so it's for us, it's a joke or maybe so it's a font thing, but there's even cases god, children, a booked for marriage before they're even born. so i mean, i like that. so let me just explain that to her. so you will be married to a rich person for benefit. sometimes it means you are going to be a helping hand of the admin assist sometimes. so the old account is, is going to be like, i think, i think we all know that it's almost expected that the girl will sleep with this old man. yeah. but it's, it's, it's almost like that it is happening like that. i feel like you're almost romanticize in this, which i, i have a problem with. let's come back to my grace and i'm already here because i want to know the kind of sex education you received in school. i mean, by the time you're 14, what grade is that?

i was angry. 7th, grade 7. so by this time, teachers have read it probably is it in the school curriculum? what are you taught here? we're talking about this 6 is that am she gonna amazing of it in here and didn't have malicious though assistant ext it into hipaa? yeah. oh, what about you, emory? why are you aware of, you know, sex education, the possibilities of getting an early pregnancy and the consequences of that from school? yes. do you think it was enough? yeah, here. so for you that it would have happened even though it was a mistake. it was a mysterious. okay. so when you know you hear the young girls, yes, saying it was a mistake, but then the consequence is a child's. by the way, this is freed. i'd introduce an activist here. what are some of the stories that you've heard from the people you're working with? most goals that usually um, let me say full pregnant or the series that i've met are people from traditional aspects. and traditionally, you're taught to not sort of really refuse when

a men approaches you, because this means older than you are. and in the end, this was an inside pregnant. this was an ins up, even if they'd say that, no, i'm pregnant, come to the elders. so what they did is they approached this or the family and said no, if you are able to take care of this child for us related slight way i, you literally swiping this whole thing under the med because mostly that other person is a perpetrator. it's either a puts you had 6 and, and a child that's rape. but these things are not spoken about sexes. like, it's a bedroom grown up kind of thing. but did the grown ups are the ones that are approaching this young kids because hey, fresh meat is a virgin and you going to boss about. okay, we'll come back to the aspect of tradition in just a 2nd. but let me introduce them son for a 2nd here. ah, because you're a father for and you identify as a born again christian. and so the question of having age appropriate conversations around sex and sexuality. but within the context of christianity,

is that happening? you, you get ah, teenage cause also getting falling pregnant in the church. but that does not see the, the, they are not informed or rather they don't get the education from, from, from, from, from, from school. sex education only comes in some way around 1415 in schools as well, but i think somewhere it needs to start from class foods from home. parents need to, to, to, to, to be open about this kind of things to, to, to their daughters and say, no, what about their sons? yeah. to their sons as well, to their sons as well. teach them that these away to leave are morally a ride and to wait until one of the day that you will get married. okay, let me come to immaculate. oh i can you're itching, i yes. um. there is a notion that if that young boys are not implicated

in tennis pregnancy, these, these bed whole narrative, but they are, they do occasion needs to deliberately target the young boy. they need to be as much part of the solution as they are part of the problem. uh, do you think that the education system is comprehensive enough when it comes to financing old case? not, not really. not really. we have, we have looked at the we how, the extent to which the teachers are comfortable in talking about sex education to their that the learners, majority of them are not even prepared to take on the conversation here. or we need to step up a little in terms of the type of policy that we have in place. namibia has an adolescent friendly health policy. and the understanding there is that a 141516 year old should be able to go into a house facility, find a queue that is separate from the other cues with family planning is taken. and there should be a nurse who is well trained, who will be able to give this youngster comprehensive health is not just the

injection or the appeal or the loop. okay? it is not yet. let's come back to simpson then because it ties back to what you were saying earlier that the teachings for you as a christian is abstinence until marriage. don't you think that's a little misleading? i mean people having sex. why don't you just give them access to contra mainly and the health care that they need? yeah, it, if they samsung, these something called a self control, the bible talks about self control. a young girl being approached by a man or an older men. she has the right to say no, it all deals with dignity at the end of the day. i'm just curious simpson, because for you, it seems that that message is constantly targeted at the goal. the goal should be resisting, the goal should not fall into your hands if what about the man, why can't he resist the, to approach a younger girl? the way we as sparren's, nurture and teach our children from, from,

from home, a place of vital role in terms of when he becomes a 16 year old or 14 year old, to be able to control, to be able to respect that young lady that walks there in the street to be able to see her as a sister to be able to see her as a mother, mother in law. i mean, he's going, i think you and i could go back and forth on this because the truth is that hormonally it is very normal to have sexual desires. but i do understand your points on our control. so on this side we have a new phase, so you might not have seen from alien de la is a bit late, but she's here none the less an activist you've got something to say to me, you're dealing particularly with vulnerable groups. we're talking here commercial sex work as people from the l g b to q i community. tell us what your experiences. i totally disagree with how you have to you bring in the narrative around control. knowing that we live in an, in a society where, pardon emma, are very much pervasive. pardon m x that also make those choices on behalf of other people. and therefore also remove the agency of especially adolescent girls,

young woman and gender nonconforming people. so really we also need to talk about the issues around consent here. let me, let me ask a question to you dealer because you missed the stories earlier from by grace who got pregnant when she was 14 and emory, who was 17. is it possible for them to have provided consent at that young age and for emory, who was depending financially entirely on her boyfriend? so according to our combating of rape act of 2000 in and of 2013, i think the, the law currently says if you're 14 years and younger, you cannot consent to 6 that statutory rape. and if the person is, is, is 14 years and 3 years older that also you cannot consent. but again, we're talking about a dollar sense here. so there is no way that the person could have consented, even if they did say yes and isn't that because we are looking at power dynamics. so we men, we cannot have that, that conversation around const consent without talking about the existing, pardon name. okay, great. all right, so i want to come back to these 2 ladies because i know one of the things that's

associated with teen pregnancies, at least where i'm from in kenya, is shame a feeling like you did something completely wrong. did this, did it feel like that for you because you said in school until you were 8 months pregnant year? yes. shame from english thinking. what will the people see? what will the teachers see? what will be bully chits fee? did also affect you. yeah. how did you deal with that because it's not an easy situation to be in. i had my parents, laverne who, encouraging not to worry about with other people. sit in my life skills teacher. yeah. so you had a support system around you. let me ask you a personal question. have you grown up in the church? yes i did. and did you feel like at that point you could go to your pastor or your youth leader and talk to them about what was going on? look really oh it's a shame that maybe will like someone that grew up in the church. are you? you have clear how can you fall pregnant in? yes. yeah. but you're back in school now. yeah,

i'm right. you haven't been able to come back to school. you're working in a touch up at the moment here. so did you have to drop out immediately? you got pregnant or what happened when i went to school until i was 8 months pregnant? yeah. i, i mean, yeah, 8 months. and then like my what broke at school, your water broken, you ain school, yes. can you talk to me through that experience? i mean, that must have, i can't imagine where you in class where you are in the flu lane. where are they being no way like no changing glasses most. yeah. and then the what the book. okay . so frida, let me come back to you because back to the conversation about shame and what simpson said earlier about what the expectations of the church, our, the expectations of culture are. don't you feel like they robbed these girls were already in vulnerable situations of the little resources that they might help that they might have in terms of support. i personally feel like, or from personal experiences that i owe with the people that i've had to deal with who got pregnant ages. they were, most of them were sent from the church,

but not because they were told that don't come to the church is just by the looks of it. and because of these things, these women fall into depression and sometimes it, it becomes so big that they don't go to school any more or they just literally shut down and become depressed. and i personally feel like their bodies are really not fit at 14, your body's not for to k to term. you should be given the option of know if you want to have an a but not even if you want to, you should have an abortion because very much a young. but isn't it? what, what are the countries constitution? say about the legality or legality of abortions? here only under 3 conditions, if i'm speaking under correction, 4 conditions, yes contextually under the law, abortion is legal. so it, but legal only under verify considered a very distinctive conditions outside of that it's criminalized. which means that if you do go for becto, abortion you will be arrested when you will be fine, 5000 or 5. he has imprisonment or both. now cut him coming to the cut and steps of abortion to obtain an abortion, if under the case of rape or insist you need to medical practitioners. and those

practitioners must be performing in an amoeba state hospital. and then you need a 3rd doctor that would perform the abortion. so these 2 doctors, they only issue the certificate, not the performance itself. if it's under also a point says you need a certificate from a magistrate and you need to provide a good enough reason for why you did not. but for example, report r 8, a rape case. if you are a minor or under under age, you need either written consent from the minister of gender or from the children's got or from a parent or guardian. and then also abortion can only be performed in a state hospital. so i'm guessing, immaculate that given what we've just heard, that the number of unsafe abortions is probably on the rise just as tim pregnancies are. yes, and it is difficult to get access to statistics because of the illegality or the criminalization. in the event, we are a, i'm at the university, we hear a lot of stories about a pill that is in the market. the girls can access. we hear

a stories of women. oh young goes who blit them themselves almost to death. because these pills must be dreamt in either 2 sequences or 3 sequences. good. drink one to din of the 3 busy drink, another one in if you don't have the money for the next one, you are likely to to, to just not survive it, it is a, it isn't really are under stories. the issue of finding a way to liberalize abortion in namibia is a metal witness. the urgency of all the attention. okay. that, that, that, that we need to put, i'm curious to hear from simpson, what his views are. i'll feed, i'll come back to in just a 2nd. we have the ladies there who are saying that abortion should definitely be an option on the table, particularly for seriously young mothers. the chat is very cleveland is, it forbids it. is there no middle ground whatsoever? i don't think there is a middle ground simply because i don't think we as human beings have the right ah, to take life. i mean, at the end of the day, we should support the mother in terms of going through this process of

giving the necessary i guidelines that she needs to get. and then if she's in school, get her bic um, when she's done giving birth, get her back to school. so that at the end of the day she can be have a carrier and be a responsible mother. okay, frida, you had something to say to me. i knew please go ahead. i just wanted to add on to what miss immaculate said, the the fact that as much as we want to not legalized abortion fully, it is happening. and as much as these people are buying or limousine women or bank tablets on the black market. so to say, they are also doing a home remedies because they cannot afford these things. and these are things that are happening that lead to facilities of women dying. and i personally feel like will it should be given the choice because um simpson said we should lead women k to tim. but do we actually asked these women, what emotionally?

what have you gone through carrying this baby to her? oh you as an important question, which i want to asked by grace the emotional toll that he takes on you to carry a baby when you're 14 and not really being ready to. how was that emotionally? what frieda was talking about thing that really m maybe affected me mostly emotionally, were slick own comments from the people maybe bit so yeah, that would meet me little going to school like a sometimes i felt like i don't wanna go to school and yeah, i'll go to church went to be honestly, currently since i gave birth, i did not really go victor church because i felt like it was like a shame to the people. like yeah, they'd maybe look at nina. we're flic ice f seemed or yeah. yeah. what are some of the comments that people used to say to you? like by greece? they're innocent when, how did you fall pregnant in?

yeah. yeah. and because also my parents are like religious people. so people were like, um your parents or religious people? how did that happen? like, how did you fall pregnant people who called himself and christians, their child that hurt delayed their child. their child is pregnant and yeah, yeah. wow. so there was shaming not just you, but also your parents. yes. tell me about your life as you give birth m. again, my friends of it should have been supportive in d. m. offered to the hyatt in many. so when i go to school, she takes care after school. she stays um and to me be 5. so i can maybe raise to a few homeworks in yeah, yeah. okay, immaculate. obviously not everybody will have the luxury of having their parents get a nanny for them of the ability to even go back to school. so what are some of the long term consequences of teen pregnancies? to build within the community is total drop off and we heard from these 2 young girls pinellas that i hear that for, for both of them there was

a time that they are partners at actually said the law, i'm not part of it. and for, for majority of young girls, because they get caught into that system where the pac not just want nothing to do with the pregnancy. and parents also have a tendency to come to new ostracizing them by putting punitive measures on this youngest. so school dropout is really for most girls, the, the owner after that. and i also read that incidentally, people who are teen mothers are more likely to reach children who will themselves become teen paris. so let's now look at the solutions because this is a problem that is faced surely around the globe, but particularly in africa. and i'm very curious to know from simpson because the church obviously has a very hardened position and abstinence is not gonna work. i'm sorry, just won't let us them together as a nation, as we see that we are and 90 percent christian nation, let us them together. and when these kinds of things had been,

let us not shun them but support them. okay. and seek openly as we, i suppose. okay, let's hear from feeder. what do we do? so that's um, in the next 1020 years we don't have another 10. 20000 by grace's, i personally say lists legalized abortion. but huge can be for abortion. or you can be pro abortion, but not take part in it. it's a conversation we need to cater for everybody that needs because everybody needs to be happy in the end. but what about a rape victims? even these re, blake de la, mentioned earlier on these rig rape victims, need to get consent from 2 physicians and another 3rd doctor to actually just terminate this weaknesses. why can we just make it fi? because in the end, if you don't support a bush, it's fine, you could, you don't have to encourage people to having to push it. but give other people the choice to make that what are out. fantastic, let them for with some solutions very quickly. the solution is their location of sex, education, sex education, certainly anxious if he does his fantastic,

immaculate, very quickly, please just been say it. but you know what? i always really belief that am the worst case scenarios away. pregnancy takes place because of rape or incest. but then there are also cases way where we really need to bring big the joy, the fun, the beauty of sex back into the platform. so that like that, and along i did this, did my ties bring it begs with those youngsters who wants to engage sexually, can, can apply their minds and, and know that i know whatever bit is there to to know anything. okay, we're just wrapping up this debate and i want to hear from the 2 ladies here. i'm sure there some teen moms will be looking at you right now looking for advice or of young women who might be wanting to hear from you. yeah, i'm already gone out. prefer that goes to contraceptives. yeah. it all time. but sometimes the contraceptives out of stock. that's even one thing always is not fair when you go full up. it's not a soul. yes. thank you. i like that like race. even though you may be appearing,

doesn't come to you to have like a 6 conversation. maybe try to good to them in talk about it. and secondly, also try to use contraceptives in dom yeah, i'm not encouraged or missing a sheet for pregnant. but if you do in the full 3 great pregnant, it's not the end of the world i, i really like that. that's actually a really positive note to end on. it's not the end of the world if you do become a t mother. but most importantly, going back to what people will say, education is key and making sure that these conversations are happening out in the open as usual. thank you so much for watching. ah, thanks eat it for is very educative debate. i learned a lot. let me show you the 2. most importantly, thank you guys for watching. if you're looking for more of our content, just go check us out on youtube. facebook and instagram. it's always lovely to hear

from you guys. i was time to go, but as always, we're going to leave you with another dupe truck on to the next time i ah ah ah ah ah

ah thank ah ah, the plane, the most powerful go of old time. that's how the checks are drumming up. support for the co pay version. how does that sending in your car? so of course we want to know how good the in your car is i v and put the e s u v through the test. read in 30

minutes on d w o. in one of mankind's oldest ambition could be within reach or what is it really is possible to reverse aging researchers and scientists all over the world are in a race against time. the d. n. a molecule though has 28000000 different our glasses. they are peers and rivals with one during goal, 2 out smart nature. one of the most insightful discoveries in the history of mankind. more life starts may 28th on d,

w. it's not a question of whether the next crisis will come, but only when and how the media will deal with it. how can we stay focused on what is important? shaping tomorrow know, exploring opportunities for media professionals in times of crisis. the global media for june 2020 to get your ticket now with this issue, when i arrived here, i slept with 6 people in a room. 9th in it was harlow spear. i even got white hair is learning the german language head. yeah. a lot. this kids to me and great, they'll blush to nikki, to interact with you want to know their story for migrant verifying and reliable

information for migrant. ah ah, this is d, w. news live from berlin? dozens are fear dead after an air strike on a school sheltering civilians in eastern new crate. as russia stepped up it's those holes in y. ukrainian officials say all civilians have been evacuated from the besieged. mario pole still works also coming up on the show as moscow prepares for monday's world war to victory day commemorations. we ask russians just how appropriate it is to sell a.