ah, discover the world around you subscribe to d w documentary on youtube. one of the reasons that russia cited for its war in ukraine was as a reaction to nato expansion, except that will likely lead to nato expanding again a sweden and finland, and that they will cease to join the western military alliance. everyone thought this would be a done deal until turkey said, not so fast. i am fill gail in berlin and this is the day. ah,

that is the best thing for the security of sweden and the security of the swedish people is to join nato and do it together with expansion of military infrastructure over that territory will obviously call for our response. and we will determine what that response is based on the threats created. with . welcome to the day i would begin with a historic decision for sweden and finland to have an answer intention to apply to join nato. hoping the western military alliance will boast of their security following russia's invasion, a few cray, already nato partners. their accession looked like a done deal, but nato member turkey now says he will not approve the beds present. reggie tired of repeating his accusation,

that sweden and fin the harboring members of groups that anchored themes terrorists . moscow has described sweden and finland moved as a mistake warning that it would be forced to restore military balance, including the use of nuclear weapons. we the succession to data would end 2 centuries of swedish military neutrality by mister magdalena, under some underscore the significance of this change in our country's security policy. well, that is your vote. that is a historical and considerable chevy for our country. we are leaving one era and beginning another we would in yet and numb. but we can enter this new era with confidence that because we're doing it with the best of our history, of your disk, of it, the males, the best style of what lance is told l m a corner nautica. the invasion of ukraine shows what russia is prepared to do the most, and we must consider the possibility of russia acting with the same risk taking in our immediate neighborhood. oh,

not on the order. brody silva threatening statements have been made against us from the russian site. so we didn't categorically reject these threats. our security policy is a matter for sweden uppers, and no one else. we all know was thought new and a strong nordic voice, and natal gives us increased opportunity to protect our common interests in the baltic c region by giving them so to best the fish value sack. the best thing for the security of sweden and the security of the spanish people is to join nato and do it together with finland or for linda minister for european affairs to, to, to provide them explained to the w y. her country decided to apply for nato membership. no. well, 20 post change. everything for us. it was to wake up call. not just for us being, but to us all to assess the changing security environment. let us be clear that has not been neutral in any sense. we have been firmly rooted in the west of the world

. we have the member in the european union since 995. so you know that since it was quite natural for our public to react to be some war in a way that the support for nathan membership was huge already from the parents bulls holes in early march. so none of us is surprised that claim is not in favor of nature. and last month it has expressed these may for already been and sweden joining nato already for many years so that he's not being used. and they also said that they will have to do some kind of balancing measures. if we should join nato, we will not let russia intimidate us. russia cannot take our own national sense. and on the other hand, it can also be possible that restless simply states the obvious that the one has already been so close to nato. we have in hans opportunities,

partnership with nato, so we also already so close as one can be without the next member. so it can be possible that for us to simply adapt to this new reality. let's focus you re, i say with bro, she's a senior fellow at the american enterprise institute. think time, she joins us from washington, a welcome to d w. so we have sweden, finland, speaking about feeling foldable, following russia. invasion of ukraine. what is the fear? what russian action are hoping to ensure themselves against? by joining nato, i don't think they would specify any particular fear for a concern that russia may then do it precisely that but, but it is the generally deteriorating security environment in the region. and we should remember that russia is active in many areas. a military area and areas below the threshold of violence,

of what is usually called greystone aggression. so all of that create an environment where russia can use really any tool that comes up with to harm and under sweden or any other country. and they are very, have been very good at defending themselves. but with such an all encompassing threat, they have wisely decided that it's better to be inside the lines with which they are or i d corporate very closely without getting the benefit of any security guarantees. right, and so sweden and finland site. all right, we're going to apply to join nato and all the nato countries you sent to you. so yeah. would you crane have cause to feel hard done by? because if this happens, data is refuse to protect you crying because the cranes november a even though they want to be. and now sweden and finland are asking for protection while their application is being considered. well, it is, it is

a bit ironic. is it not that ukraine is stuck in this war? allegedly because he wanted to join a to that was rush, us really rushes most of a state motivation for, for invading ukraine, wanting to, to dictate it states. whereas this, when land are at peace and are on not being invaded that by very russia and if we're not even planning to join nature and all of a sudden they are they walking in for an open door because apart from turkey, no country, it seems it seems likely to voice any objection and they are incredibly, incredibly attractive candidates, which is of course, the difference between them and ukraine. for 4 reasons. the fair and on fair they, they have all the sort of attributes that nato wants in a candidate or a member was ukraine. it really would have a hard time gaining it membership, even if,

even if there are no war at the moment. so it may be some fare, maybe it's not but, but it is ironic at the very least. right. we'll come to that took his objections in just a moment. but 1st i'd like you to help us understand russia's reaction. on the one hand, we have the deputy foreign minister, so a guy royal cove quoted of saying that sweden and finland, they should have no illusions that we will simply put up with it and know should brussels washington and other nato capital. so he's saying this, he's gone too far. now let's say from the russian president, stuck as it is shitty. as for the nato expansion, including through the new members of the alliance, finland and sweden. i would like to inform you that russia has no problem with these dates. neil, if i had to move where it comes from, and therefore the expansion at the expense of these countries does not create a direct threat to us. russia in use of the, you know, what the expansion of military infrastructure over that territory is. what

obviously call for our respond via e. and we will determine what that response a's based on the threads created of it . so elizabeth, bro, we have a, a russian foreign minister promising that the fires of hell and vladimir putin apparently sidney bag i met that's right. and, and before sweden and finland made his announcements of various menacing statements from russian official. but the reality is, as you are finish minister, who was just quoted said, russia has been in no doubt about where fin lunch, loyalties lie, we're sweet. as long as they have been essentially cohabiting with nature for a number of years. now. russia didn't think it was that these were some single countries out there up for grabs in my joint rush, and some of the lines they have been. so integrating so closely when they do that, it's just a matter of practicality to step inside the tent and get that protection. so the more potent who may be irrational in other ways clearly recognizes that. and also

by stating that this is not the next essential threat, he's essentially saying that won't be a nuclear response from russia, which is what so many service has been worrying about that. and the threat that there is lower level officials had been voicing. but if the president of russia says this is not the next essential right? clearly, that is the last word from russia on whether this makes essential, right? ok, let's talk about turkey. them threatening to hold up are proceedings for sweden and finland because the president accuses them of harboring terrorists. so do we believe on cruise objections are genuine or is present? heard about looking to make some sort of deal? what does he want? well, president or the one wouldn't be president earth one if we didn't try to get something out of any given situation. he's an extremely skilled technicians. so i think that's what's happening here. he's. he's an opportunity where he has leverage

meaning. he, his government has to ratify the exception of these 2 countries. otherwise they won't be joining nato, so he can get something out of it. i don't think there's any doubt that the end of the day talk you will, will approve, will ratify the expression. but the present time to run clearly sponsor a spoken opportunity to get something out of it. and so he may but make various demand, some nato and the member states. as we know, finland, for example, you may demand that turkey finally gets us. it's 75. there's been wanting to get that something that's been locked by the u. s. government. there is however, a twist in sweden, which is that the current government is extremely weak and depends on one fundamental ryan who is an independent to get its legislation from parliament. as she has very strong feelings about the cards and is now saying, well, the sweden, this was government is, is being soft on turkey. so we'll see where that leads. but with off her vote,

the government won't be able to will start on monday to get legislation through parliament. but of course it is a has talking to one side, this loan parliamentarian on the other side. we'll see where that goes. good talk, you. thank you so much for joining us for explaining that to to us elizabeth brewer from the american enterprise institute in washington. ah, well as tensions between russia and nato a grow over this at war in ukraine on the blocks of possible expansion. president opposed and has been hosting the leaders of the russia led military alliance. bella roost is alexander lucas shanker, was one of the leaders of the 6, a former soviet states that for me, collective security, 3 organizations meeting at the kremlin. the summit coincides with the 30th anniversary of the collective security treaty. other members include armenia, bela ruth, kazakstan, kirk, stan, and to jake is down,

but russia dominate sal alongside bell. ruth. so here are the leaders of those 2 countries. on the c s t u. secretary general august the 3rd oceania nursery, as for the expansion of the atlantic alliance, the yes, it's a problem with the order which is being created completely artificially, in my opinion, in the united states foreign policy interests. and if they believe in general exam, if nato was being loose as a one country foreign policy to give us, which would be the deal. i mean it's a time when the world is ree. shepalees, necessarily unipolar. well, the order is becoming a thing of the past. yet the collective west is waging an aggressive war to defend its positions spectrum. it is using all means, including in our organization zone of responsibility for thoughts on threatening the use of nature weapons along our western borders to waging a full fledged hybrid war gland, his daughter, primarily against russia,

and bella ross to what i see below. supposed most of me, you breed me, were in nova scratching with, it's difficult to say how it's all going to hand. but one thing is obvious. they put us all these steps, including those aimed at expansion of nato, will lead to an increase of tension in europe. europe well, let's see what we should make of this. this meeting of this group has been referred to as the president putin's pocket, nato d w. so russia analyst is konstantin agates. you joins us from the lithuanian capital of illness. welcome constantine. and we should be clear that this was a shed old meeting rather than a reaction to the war in ukraine. yes, in the this yeah. the elect, the security 3 organizational celebrates its th anniversary. and well, maybe they moved it a little bit to kind of coincide with sweden and finland applications to join nato, but generally it should have happened. it probably would have happened to the problem

. and i think that to large extent, this is yet another sort of talking shop exercise from putting who, as you rightly said, likes to demonstrate to western allies into the world that he's not. hello, this is exactly what he's been doing in the crime. ok, so this is supposedly it's a defensive organization like night. so, but you looking at its membership list, armenia, bella, ruth, has expand. could you stand russia and to jesus? that one does who they think the enemy is. and what is the enemy? why might want from them collectively they don't need to st. putting things for that was permanent things for them. that's the whole design. this is an imitation of nathan, rather than nato, that are not many consultations with allies this allies on this for the different. well, let's say compared to today's washer are media and here just on probably uncovered look like legend in democracy. and i think about it,

of course the on the most that you know, the appeal threatened by the not let it alliance. i think that sounds as much more concerned about let's say china, all the islamists from mentors the taliban in the neighboring. i've got to stand low. it's not far, far away. that much. so it is definitely not an organization like me to in terms of understanding. it's connected, security needs, in terms of even the military readiness. all these countries are forces. so it is again, much more to political and symbolic exercise. and it was always too large and led by russia even when boris yeltsin wasn't power. when russian designs, let's say, own global security were completely different and there were calibration. so let's, let's look at what this organization might be doing. i'm like russia,

we have better route, suffering western sanctions because russia's invasion was launch party from its territory. and despite this, despite the sanctions, the bel recent leader alexander lucas shanker, was called on c, s t o members to resist western pressure here. so you will see, glisten us, russia, and belarus, a being the same is excluded from international organizations. yes, the pressure is being exerted and the pressure is hard and ruthless. the pressure is on you, the c s t members. for these situations collected and mutual support and does exist . not that without the earliest possible cohesion about countries in without strong ties, we may cease to exist tomorrow. konstantin agate is assessed here remit likely to broaden beyond military support to include a political and economic ties. as we heard suggested that i listen to like a shame going is ok what, what for example,

president required or contract stand for when he was listening to that? ha ha. he said no way. because i think that's how many of the leaders are actually today. afraid of also what the did not only offer what they did in 2014 and mixing the crimea, especially today. and you're very weary or engaging in any kind of public political or not even talking about defense activity with the russian federation. so i suppose that lucas angle has to say that because he's completely essentially captured by these completely dependent. but even he denies the possibility to launch active military action against you. grain from the arson territory. bellows is a staging point, and both, let's say, support the east, but it's not participating in the war because lucas changes on military will be extremely reliable in case the orders them to do in b,

u grain and open. let's say quote and quote, the 2nd front against against here. so it, so frankly speaking just to talk. all right, good. talking to us after the w. russia analyst, konstantin. i got thank ah . a small island in the black sea has become a key battleground in the russia, ukraine war. russia seized it at the start of its invasion. snake island is just over half a kilometer long island, or 200 kilometers south of the ukrainian port of odessa. it seems vital to moscow in his bed to control the western block. see no one. the only are you crime wants it back and continues to launch attacks on russian military equipment there, including ships it may look like just a tiny lump of rock in the middle of the black sea. but snake island has enormous

strategic importance for both russia and ukraine. so significant that it's become a key battle ground in this wall. ukraine has even produced a stamp in its honor. on the, on it an illustration of a ukrainian border guard standing on the island. and making a rude gesture, it was inspired by roman flea bath, who received a metal for refusing to surrender the aisle to the crew of a russian warship. at the start of the war. his curse words to the russians have now become a popular ukrainian slogan. russia though, did take snake island, an outpost that used to be under soviet control. if the kremlin could occupy it permanently,

it would control even more of the black sea. that would help it continue to block the exports of ukrainian goods, such as grain from key port cities like odessa. ukraine has been doing all it can to take snake island back successfully targeting russian military equipment on the island and beyond. the mosque ever seen here in its prime was russia's black sea flagship, but it was destroyed by ukrainian forces in april. moscow is fighting back. british intelligence believes russia is trying to reinforce its garrison on snake island, including setting up long range air defense systems. military experts warned that could be a threat not only to ukraine,

but also to its neighbors and nato. and so the battle for their strategic outpost goes on with neither psy prepared to back down and take a closer look with dimitry al, pelvic terms of security expert. they silverado policy accelerator, that's a geo political thing to talk through. washington d. c. a. welcome to the w, and what's your assessment that how important is it to control this tiny island? while symbolically of course, is very important given the episode that was just described earlier in the war and the dying and resistance from the ukrainians in the found it. but here's the issue that the russians faced. now, this island is essentially indispensable. now, given that the war ships that they would provide the defense capabilities for the island, like my squad can be sunk by the ukrainians with their nephew as a capable demonstrated last month. so they have

a real issue now facing targeting from to be to drop some sort of personnel on that island, the equipment on that island just a few weeks ago. the green is this way. they are to pump system on it. so now it's really questionable why they want to keep it so badly given that they're going to continue suffering severe casualties on it. okay, so russia having problems defending it, but russia says ukraine's taken heavy losses as it tries to recapture it. and what do you think is ukraine, right, to keep focusing on this, this, this low outpost? again, symbolically. it's very important. but for the grants also, this is not a strategic i want. and one that they can probably defend, even if they are reoccupied, because the russians can, of course, conduct their strikes against that and take out any personnel or an air defense systems that are on the silent. and here's the problem. it really won't stop the blockade. the blockade is largely be enforced with submarines with surface ships, with our air strikes and artillery and missiles on and crimea. and,

oni ne collins is really not going to change the picture much for the premiums. right? so you seem to be saying that that or be symbolically important, it really doesn't make that much difference. that's right, and primarily because of a size is less than point 2 kilometers in size. and it's just too small to put significant forces on it. but later, and significant air defenses that can be taken out with you a v like the grains that i've done in the past. because i've looked at reports, the same reports of people thinking well ok, but it does have a significant potential to wreak havoc on other european countries. it's pretty far and look, the russians don't need snake islands. we can come to europe and countries if they want to do so. they controlled pretty much the block. see with the black, the fleet, even with a lot of my squad, they still have a number frigate that are highly capable, long range missiles on those frigates. they have submarines, they have force,

long distance aviation, that's lucky to crimea. so snake island really doesn't change the picture much for them. i was very interesting. thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us . dmitri out petrovich, security expert the silverado policy accelerator. thank you. ah, donald says it is pulling out of russia for good. the u. s. fast food chain had previously announced the temporary closure of 850 outlets. ash, when moscow sent troops into you cried. now it says it's looking for a local buyer for all of its russian sites, which will no longer be able to use the mcdonald's name or menu, which i says its priority is ensuring the continued payment of 62000 employees until the sale goes through donald's 1st opened more in moscow more than 30 years ago, shortly before the soviet you on the day's almost done,

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ah. this is the, the, the news line from berlin. is this the end of the battle that has come to symbolize ukraine struggle against russia? the invaders busters evacuate soldiers from the mario pulse field plant where they've been holding out a week against the russian onslaught. also on the program turkish president budget, i've heard about says he won't support finland or sweden joining nato, accusing both of harboring terrorists under big fat that for has ballade is size in lebanon's parliamentary elections, the iran back.