what, one of the reasons that russia cited for its war in ukraine was as a reaction to nato expansion, except that will likely lead to nato expanding again, a sweden and finland, and that they will seek to join the western military alliance. everyone thought this would be a done deal until turkey said, not so fast. i'm fill gail in berlin and this is the day ah, do the best thing for the security of sweden and the security of the swedish people is to join nato and do it together with expansion of military infrastructure over that territory will obviously call for our response and we will determine what that response is based on the threats created with

. welcome to the day we begin with a story decision for sweden and finland to have an answer intention to apply to join nato. hoping the western military alliance will boast of their security on russia's invasion. a few cray, already nato partners. their accession looked like a done deal, but nato member turkey now says it will not approve the bids present. reggie tired of repeating his accusation, that sweden fin the harboring members of groups at anchor games terrorists. moscow has described sweden and finland moves as a mistake warning that it would be forced to restore military balance, including the use of nuclear weapons. we the succession to data would end 2 centuries of swedish military neutrality by mister magdalena anderson underscore the significance of this change in our countries security policy. well,

that is your vote. it is a historical and considerable sherry for our country and we are leaving one era and beginning another. we would in all, none. but we can enter this new era with confidence that because we are doing it with the best of our history, of your disk, of it, the males, the best thou of what lance is told l m a corner nautica. the invasion of ukraine shows what russia is prepared to do the most, and we must consider the possibility of russia acting with the same risk taking in our immediate neighborhood or not on the order. brody silva threatening statements have been made against us from the russian site. so we didn't categorically reject these threats. our security policy is a matter for sweden up and no one else will. you know, mom was like no and a strong nordic voice. and natal gives us increased opportunity to protect our common interests in the baltic sea region given them. so the best coverage, right, is that the best thing for the security of sweden and the security of the swedish

people is to join nato and do it together with finland or fillings, or minister for european affairs to, to, to provide them explained to the w, y her country have decided to apply for night membership. no. well, 20 both changed everything for us. it was to wake up call. not just for us being spotted to us all to assess the changing security environment. let us be clear that has not been neutral in any sense. we have been firmly rooted in the west the world . we have the member in the european union since 1995. so you know that since it was quite natural for our public to react to be the war in a way that the support for nathan membership was huge already from the pers bulls holes in early march. so none of us is surprised that he's not in favor of nato enlargement. it has expressed these may for already been and sweden

joining nato already for many years, so that he's not being used. and they also said that they will have to do some kind of balancing measures if we should join nato. we will not let russia intimidate us. russia cannot be paid our own national sense. and on the other hand, it can also be possible that rational simply states be obvious, that one has already been so close to nato. we have in hans opportunities, partnership with nato. so we also already so close as one can be without be an actual member. so it can be possible that for us to simply adapt to this new reality, that's because you re, i say, with broad she's a senior fellow at the american enterprise institute, think tongue, she joins us from washington, a welcome to the w. so we have sweden, finland, speaking about feeling vulnerable, falling rushes,

invasion of ukraine. what is the fear? what russian action are hoping to ensure themselves against? by joining nato, i don't think they would specify any particular fear for are concerned that russia may then do it precisely that, but, but it is the generally deteriorating security environment in the region. and we should remember that russia is active in many areas. a military area and areas below the threshold on violence of what is usually called gray zone aggression. so all of that create an environment where russia can use really any tool that comes up with to harm finn under sweden or any other country. and they are very, have been very good at defending themselves. but with such an all encompassing threats, they have wisely decided that it's better to be inside the lines with which they

are or i d corporate very closely without getting the benefit of any security guarantees. right, and, and so sweden and finland say, all right, well, going to apply to join they. so, and all the nato countries except to you. so yeah. would you crane have cause to feel hard done by? because if this happens, data is refused to protect your credit because the cranes non member, even though they want to pay and now sweden and finland are asking for protection while their application is being considered. well it is, it is a bit ironic. is it not that ukraine is stuck in this war? allegedly because he wanted to join the, it was rush us really rush us, most of a state motivation for, for invading ukraine, wanting to, to dictate it states where this, when land are at peace and are, are not being invaded. that meant by very russia and where he's not even planning

to join nature and all of a sudden they are they working into an open door because apart from turkey, no country and it seems, it seems likely to voice any objection. and they are incredibly, incredibly attractive candidates, which is of course, the difference between them and ukraine. for 4 reasons. the fair and on fair they, they have all the sort of attributes that nato wants in a candidate or a member was ukraine. it really would have a hard time gaining membership even if, even if there are no war at the moment. so it may be some fair maybe it's not but, but it is ironic at the very least. right. we'll come to that took his objections in just a moment, but 1st i'd like you to help us understand rushes reaction. on the one hand, we have the deputy foreign minister, so guy, ryan, cough quoted as saying that sweden and finland, they should have no illusions that we will simply put up with it and know should

brussels washington and other nato capital. so he's saying this, he's gone too far. now let's say from the russian president stoker said such a shitty as for the nato expansion, including through the new members of the alliance, finland and sweden. i would like to inform you that russia has no problem with these dates, neil e by the more williamson, and therefore, the expansion at the expense of these countries does not create a direct threat to us. russia unions of the, you know, what the expansion of military infrastructure over that territory is. what obviously call for our respond via e and we will determine what that response a's based on the threats created of it. so elizabeth, bro, we have a russian foreign minister promising that the fires of hell and vladimir putin apparently sidney bag met. that's right. and, and before us with made these announcements of various menacing statements from

russian official. but the reality is, as you finish minister, who was just quoted said, russia has been in no doubt about where fin lunch, loyalties lie, we're sweet, as long as they have been essentially cohabiting with nature for a number of years. now. russia didn't think it was that these were some single countries out there up for grabs in my joint rush, and some of the lines they have been. so integrating so closely when they do that, it's just a matter of practicality to step inside the tent and get that protection. so the more potent who may be irrational in other ways clearly recognizes that. and also by stating that this is not the next essential threat, he's essentially saying that won't be a nuclear response from russia, which is what so many service has been worrying about that. and the threat that there is lower level officials had been voicing. but if the president of russia says this is not the next essential right? clearly, that is the last word from russia on whether this next essential, right? ok. let's talk about turkey,

then threatening to hold up or proceed for sweden and finland because the president accuses them of harboring terrorists. so do we believe on cruise objections are genuine or is present? heard about looking to make some sort of deal? what does he want? well, president or the one wouldn't be president earth one if we didn't try to get something out of any given situation. he's an extremely skilled technicians. so i think that's what's happening here. he's. he's an opportunity where he has leverage meaning. he, his government has to ratify the exception of these 2 countries. otherwise they won't be joining nato, so he can get something out of it. i don't think there's any doubt that the end of the day talk you will, will approve, will ratify our expression, but press and down to one clearly sponsor a spoken opportunity to get something out of it. and so he may but make various demand, some nato and the member states. as we know, finland, for example,

you may demand that turkey finally gets us. it's 75, has been wanting to get that. something that's been locked by the u. s. government . there is, however, a twist in sweden, which is that the current government is extremely weak and depends on one quantum, a tarion who is an independent to get its legislation through parliament as she has very strong feelings about the cards and is now saying, well, sweden, this government is, is being soft on turkey, so we'll see where that leads. but with off her vote, the government won't be able to will start on monday to get legislation through parliament. but of course it's, it's a has talking to one side, this loan parliamentarian on the other side. we'll see where that goes. good talk. you. thank you so much for joining us from explaining that to to us elizabeth brewer from the american enterprise institute in washington.

ah, well as tensions between russia and nato, a grow over this at war and ukraine on the blocks of possible expansion, president opposed and has been hosting the leaders of the russia led military alliance. bella roost is alexander lucas shanker. is one of the leaders of the 6 a former soviet states at all me collective security, 3 organizations meeting at the kremlin. the summit coincides with the 30th anniversary of the collective security treaty. sure. other members include armenia, bella, ruth kazakstan. kirk is stan and to jake is dan, but russia dominate cell alongside bella. ruth, so here are the leaders of those 2 countries. on the c s t u secretary general the 3rd oceania, nursing as for the expansion of the atlantic alliance. the yes, it's a problem under which is being created completely artificially, in my opinion, in the united states foreign policy interested in your ability in general,

singleness nader was being used as a one country foreign policy tool to keep us, which would be the deal. i'm you know, it's a time when the world is ree shepalees, necessarily uni polar. well, the order is becoming a thing of the past. yet the collective west is waging an aggressive war to defend its position spectrum. it is using all means including in our organization zone of responsibility, photo from threatening the use of nature, weapons along our western borders. room to waging a full fledged hybrid walk around his daughter primarily against russia. and bella rose to receive the elusive palmer stubbornly. you breathed me with her scratching with. it's difficult to say how it's all going to hand. but one thing is obvious. it put us all these steps, including those aimed at expansion of nato, will lead to an increase of tension in europe. europe. well, let's see what we should make of this. this meeting of this group has been referred to as the president putin's pocket, nato

d. w. so russia analyst is constantine. i got to join us from the lithuanian capital of illness. welcome constantine. and we should be clear that this was a shed july meeting rather than a reaction to the war in ukraine. yes, in the for this year, elected security to your organization celebrates it's it's anniversary and well, maybe they moved it a little bit to kind of coincide with applications to join nato, but generally it should have happened. it probably would have happened to the problem . and i think that to a large extent, this is yet another sort of talking shop exercise from putting who as you rightly said, likes to demonstrate to western allies into the world that he's not. hello, this is exactly what he's been doing in the crime. ok, so this is supposedly it's a defensive organization like night. so, but you looking at its membership list armenia, bella, ruth, cousin, stan,

could you stand russia and to g? case that one does who they think the enemy is and what this enemy, why might want from them collectively they don't need to thank you for putting things with permanent things for them. that's the whole design. this is an imitation of nathan, rather than nato that are not many consultations between allies this allies on this for the different. well, let's say compared to today's washer are media and here just on probably uncovered spot look like watching democracy. and i think about it, of course the, the most that you know, the if you threaten by the i'm not letting alliance, i think that kind of sound as much more concerned about, let's say china, all the islamist mentors, the taliban in the neighboring. i've got to stand low, it's not far, far away. that much. so it is definitely not an organization

like may do in terms of understanding it's connected security needs in terms of even the military readiness, all these countries on forces. so it is again much more to political and symbolic exercise, and it was always too large that led by russia, even when boris yeltsin wasn't power when the russian designs, let's say, own global security were completely different and they were calibration. so let's, let's look at what this organization might be doing. i'm like russia. we have better route, suffering western sanctions because russia's invasion was launch party from its territory. and despite this, despite the sanctions, the bel recent leader alexander lucas shanker, was called on c. s t. o members to resist western pressure here. so you will see, glisten us, russia, and belarus, a being the same is excluded from international organizations. yes,

the pressure is being exerted and the pressure is hard and ruthless. the pressure is on you. the c s t a members and so for these situations collected a mutual support does exist. not that without the earliest possible cohesion about countries even without strong ties, we may cease to exist tomorrow. constantine agate is the zest heroes remit likely to broaden beyond military support to include a political and economic ties. as we have suggested that i listen to lucas. she's going to like a walk walk, for example, pregnant choir. all kinds of stuff. when he was listening to that, ha ha, he said no way. because i think that many of the reasons are actually to the greater also what a did not only offer what they did in 2014 mixing the crimea, especially today. and you're very weary or engaging in any kind of public political

laws, not even talking about defense activity with russian federation. so i suppose that lucas angle has to say that because he is completely essentially captured by who is completely dependent on. but even he denies the possibility to launch active military action against grain from the options that are very well. it is a staging point. and well, let's say support based, but it's not with the speaking of the war because lucas changes on military will be extremely reliable. in case he orders them to do in b, u grain and open, let's say quote unquote, the 2nd front against against here. so it, so frankly speaking just to talk. all right, good. talking to our 70 w. russia analyst konstantin agate. thank you. ah, a small island in the black sea has become

a key battleground in the russia, ukraine war. russia seized it at the start of its invasion. snake island is just over half a kilometer long and 200 kilometers south of the ukrainian port of odessa. it seems vital to moscow in his bed to control the western block, c o one. the van or ukraine wants it back and continues to launch attacks on russian military equipment there, including ships. it may look like just a tiny lump of rock in the middle of the black sea. but snake island has enormous strategic importance for both russia and ukraine. so significant that it's become a key battle ground in this wall. ukraine has even produced a stamp in its honor. on the, on it an illustration of a ukrainian border guard, standing on the island and making

a rude gesture. it was inspired by roman flea bath, who received a metal for refusing to surrender the aisle to the crew of a russian warship at the start of the war. his curse words to the russians have now become a popular ukrainian slogan. russia though, did take snake island, an outpost that used to be under soviet control. if the kremlin could occupy it permanently, it would control even more of the black sea. that would help it continue to block the export of ukrainian goods, such as grain from key port cities like odessa. ukraine has been doing all it can to take snake island back successfully targeting russian military equipment on the island and beyond. the mosque ever

seen here in its prime was russia's black sea flag ship, but it was destroyed by ukrainian forces in april. moscow is fighting back. british intelligence believes russia is trying to reinforce its garrison on snake island, including setting up long range air defense systems. military experts warned that could be a threat not only to ukraine, but also to its neighbors and nato. and so the battle for their strategic outpost goes on with neither psy prepared to back down and take a closer look with dimitry out pelvic terms of security expert. are they silverado policy accelerator that you political think tank in washington dc?

welcome to d. w. and what's your assessment that, how important is it to control this tiny island? while symbolically of course, is very important given the episode that was just described early in the war and the value and resistance from the ukrainians in the family. and. but here's the issue of the russian space. now, this island is essentially indispensable. now, given that the war ships that they would provide the defense capabilities for the island like my squad can be sunk by the ukrainians with their napkins as they capable demonstrated last month. so they have a real issue now facing targeting from to be to drop some sort of personnel on that island. the equipment on that island just a few weeks ago, the green sway their defense system on it. so now that it's really questionable why they want to keep it so badly given that they're going to continue suffering severe casualties on it. ok, so russia having problems defending it, but russia says ukraine's taken heavy losses as it tries to recapture it. and what

do you think is ukraine, right, to keep focusing on this, this, this low outpost? again, embolic, it's very important, but for the grants also, this is not a strategic one. and one that they can probably defend, even if they are reoccupied, because the russians can, of course, conduct their strikes against that and take out any personnel or an air defense systems that are on the silent. and here's the problem. it really won't stop the blockade. the blockade is largely be enforced with submarines with surface ships, with our air strikes and artillery and missiles on and crimea. and only ne collins is really not going to change the picture much for the premiums. right, so you seem to be saying that that obese, symbolically important, it really doesn't make that much difference. that's right. and primarily because of a size is less than point 2 kilometers in size. and it's just too small to put significant forces on it. but later,

and significant air defenses that can be taken out with you a v like the grains of i've done in the past because i've looked at reports, the same reports of people thinking well ok, but it does have a significant potential to wreak havoc on other european countries it's pretty far and look, the russians don't need make islands. we can come to europe and countries if they want to do so. they controlled pretty much the block. see with the black, the fleet, even with a lot of my squad, they still have a number frigate that are highly capable. one range missiles on those frigates. they have submarines, they have forced long distance aviation that's lucky to crimea. so think island really doesn't change the picture much for them. i was very interesting. thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us dimitry out. petrovich, security expert the silverado policy accelerator. thank you. ah don. all says it is pulling out of russia for

good. the u. s. fast food chain had previously announced the temporary closure of 850 outlets. ash, when that moscow sent troops into you crime. now it says it's looking for a local buyer for all of its russian sites, which will no longer be able to use the mcdonald's name or menu, which i says its priority is ensuring the continued payment of its 62000 employees until the sale goes through donaldson 1st opened more in moscow more than 30 years ago, shortly before the soviet. you on the day's almost done, but the conversation continues online. you'll find us on twitter. i've at a d w. so you follow me on to fill gail a good day. ah

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