one of the reasons a russia cited for its war in ukraine was as a reaction to nato expansion, except that will likely lead to nato expanding again, a sweden and finland, and that they will see to join the western military alliance. everyone thought this would be a done deal until turkey said, not so fast. i'm fil gail in berlin and this is the day ah, the best thing for the security of sweden and the security of the swedish people is to join nato and do it together with expansion of military infrastructure over that territory will obviously call for our response. and we will determine what that response is based on the threats created. with

. welcome to the day, i will begin with the historic decision for sweden and finland to have an answer intention to apply to join nato, hoping the western military alliance will bolster their security. following rushes invasion, if you cry. already. nato partners there. accession looked like a done deal, but nato member turkey now says he will not approve the bids present. reggie type heard about repeated his accusation, that sweden fin the harboring members of groups at anchor games terrorists. moscow has described sweden and finland moved as a mistake warning that it would be forced to restore military balance, including the use of nuclear weapons. sweeney succession to data would end 2 centuries of swedish military neutrality by miss magdalena undersold underscore the significance of this change in her country's security policy. without years your

vote, it is a historical and considerable chevy for our country. and we are leaving one era and beginning another, we would in an unknown. but we can enter this new era with confidence that because we are doing it with the best of our history, of your disk, of it, the males, the best star of what lance is told l m a corner nautica. the invasion of ukraine shows what russia is prepared to do the most, and we must consider the possibility of russia acting with the same risk taking in our immediate neighbor hetero, not under brody silva threatening statements have been made against us from the russian site. so we didn't categorically reject these threats. our security policy is a mac for sweden up and no one else will. you know, not was dike new and a strong nordic voice and natal gives us increased opportunity to protect our common interests in the baltic sea region. the given them, so the best that is right is that the best thing for the security of sweden and the

security of the spanish people is to join nato and do it together with finland. or fillings are minister for european affairs to, to, to provide them explained to the w y, her country decided to apply for nato membership. no, well, 20, both changed everything for us. it was to wake up call. not just for us being spotted to us all to assess the changing security environment and let us know that he has not been neutral in any sense. we have been firmly rooted in the western world. we have the member in the european union since 995. so you know that since it was quite natural out for our public to react to be some war in a way that the support for nathan membership was huge already from the pers bulls holes in early march. so none of us is surprised that claim is not in favor of nature. and last month it has expressed these may for already been and

sweden joining nato already for many years so that he's not being used. and they also said that they will have to do some kind of balancing measures. if we should join nato, we will not let russia intimidate us. russia cannot be paid our own national sense . and on the other hand, it can also be possible that restless simply states the obvious that the one has already been so close to nato. we have in hans opportunities, partnership with nato, so we also already so close as one can be without being actual member. so it can be possible bad for us to simply adapt to this new reality i spoke of. if you re, i say with bro, she's a senior fellow at the american enterprise institute, think tongue, she joins us from washington, a welcome to the w. so we have sweden and finland speaking about feeling vulnerable

following russia. invasion of ukraine. what is the fear? what russian action are hoping to ensure themselves against? by joining nato, i don't think they would specify any particular fear for, for, for, they're concerned that russia may then do it precisely that, but, but it is the generally deteriorating security environment in the region. and we should remember that russia is active in many areas. a military area and areas below the threshold on violence of what is usually called gray zone aggression. so all of that create an environment where russia can use really any tool that comes up with to harm finn under sweden or any other country. and they are very, have been very good at defending themselves. but with such an all encompassing threats, they have wisely decided that it's better to be inside the lines with which they

are or i d corporate very closely without getting the benefit of any security guarantees. right, and, and so sweden and finland site. all right, well, going to apply to join nato and all the nato countries except to you. so yeah. would you crane have cause to feel hog done by? because if this happens, data is refuse to protect your credit because the cranes non member, even though they want to be a now sweden and finland are asking for protection while their application is being considered. well, it is, it is a bit ironic. is it not that ukraine is stuck in this war? allegedly because he wanted to join it was rush us really rush us, most of a state motivation for, for invading ukraine, wanting to, to dictate it states where this, when land are at peace and are on not being invaded by russia. and if we're not even planning to join nature and all of

a sudden they are, they walking into an open door because apart from turkey, no country, it seems, it seems likely to voice any objection. and they are incredibly, incredibly attractive candidates, which is of course, the difference between them and ukraine. for 4 reasons. the fair and on fair they, they have all the sort of attributes that nato wants in a candidate or a member was ukraine. it really would have a hard time gaining membership even if, even if there are no war at the moment. so it may be some fair maybe it's not but, but it is ironic at the very least. right. we'll come to that took his objections in just a moment, but 1st i'd like you to help us understand russia's reaction. on the one hand, we have the deputy foreign minister, so a guy, royal cove quoted as saying that sweden and finland, they should have no illusions that we will simply put up with it and know should

brussels washington and other nato capital. so he's saying this, he's gone too far. now let's say from the russian president, stuck as it is shitty. as for the nato expansion, including through the new members of the alliance, finland and sweden. i would like to inform you that russia has no problem with he states me if i had to more with him some. and therefore the expansion at the expense of these countries does not create a direct threat to us. russia use of the, you know, what the expansion of military infrastructure over that territory is, what obviously call for our respond via e. and we will determine what that response a's based on the threads created as the words. so elizabeth brewer, we have a, a russian foreign minister, promising that the fires of hell and vladimir putin apparently sidney bag met. that's right. and, and before us with made these announcements of various menacing statements from

russian official. but the reality is, as you finish minister, who was just quoted said, russia has been no doubt about where fin lunch, loyalties lie where suite is. lloyd does law. they have been essentially cohabiting with nature for a number of years. now. russia didn't think it was that these were some single countries out there up for grabs in my joint rush, and some of the lines they have been. so integrating so closely when they do that, it's just a matter of practicality to step inside the tent and get that protection. so the more potent who may be irrational in other ways clearly recognizes that. and also by stating that this is not the next essential threat, he's essentially saying that won't be a nuclear response from russia, which is what so many service has been worrying about that. and the threat that there is lower level officials had been voicing. but if the president of russia says this is not the next essential for us, clearly that is the last word from russia on whether this next essential, right. ok. let's talk about turkey,

then threatening to hold up are proceedings for sweden and finland because the president accuses them of harboring terrorists. so do we believe on cruise objections are genuine or is present? heard about looking to make some sort of deal. what does he want? what president are the one wouldn't be president earth one if we didn't try to get something out of any given situation. he's an extremely skilled technicians. so i think that's what's happening here. he's. he's an opportunity where he has leverage meaning. he, his government has to ratify the exception of these 2 countries. otherwise they won't be joining nato, so he can get something out of it. i don't think there is in doubt that the end of the day talk you will, will approve, will ratify our expression. but present to run clearly sponsor a spoken opportunity to get something out of it. and so he may but make mary's them on some on nato and the member states when finland and for example,

you may demand that turkey finally gets us at 35. it's been wanting to get that something that's been locked by the u. s. government. there is, however, a twist in sweden, which is that the current government is extremely weekend and depends on one quantum. it's harriann who is an independent to get it's legislation from parliament as she has very strong feelings about the cards and is now saying, well, sweden, this week, government is, is being soft on turkey. so we'll see where that leads. but with all her votes, the government won't be able to will start on monday to get legislation through parliament. but of course it's, it's a has talking to one side, this loan parliamentarian on the other side, we'll see where that goes. good talk, you. thank you so much for joining us from explaining that to to us elizabeth brewer from the american enterprise institute in washington.

ah, well as tensions between russia and nato a grow over this at war in ukraine on the blocks of possible expansion. president, oppose, and has been hosting the leaders of the russia led military alliance. bella roost is alexander lucas shanker, was one of the leaders of the 6, a former soviet states at all me. collective security, 3 organizations meeting at the kremlin. the summit coincides with the 30th anniversary of the collective security treaty. other members include armenia, bela ruth cassock, stan, kirk, stan, and to jake is down. but russia dominate, sell alongside bell roost. so here are the leaders of those 2 countries. on the c s t u secretary general focus is that a sri in nursing as for the expansion of the atlantic alliance? the yes, it's a problem under which is being created completely artificially, in my opinion, in the united states, foreign policy, interesting ability,

in general, single nato was being used as a one country foreign policy tool to keep us which would be the deal. i'm, you know, it's a time when the world is rachelle. paula, this is the unipolar world. all that is becoming a thing of the past. yet the collective west is waging an aggressive war to defend its position spectrum. it is using all means, including in our organization zone of responsibility for some threatening the use of nature weapons, not along our western borders, to waging a full fledged hybrid walk around his daughter, primarily against russia. and bella rose to receive below suppose much stubbornly. you believe me were over scratching with it's difficult to say how it's all going to end. but one thing is obvious. it put us all these steps, including those aimed at expansion of nato, will lead to an increase of tension in europe. europe. well, let's see what we should make of this meeting of this group has been referred to as the president putin's pocket nato d. w. so russia analyst is constantine. again,

you joins us from the lithuanian capital, a film. yes, welcome, konstantin. we should be clear that this was a scheduled meeting rather than a reaction to the war in ukraine. yes, in the for this year, elected security through your organization celebrates it's it's anniversary and well, maybe they moved it a little bit to kind of coincide with applications to join nato, but generally it should have happened. it probably would have happened to the problem . and i think that to large extent, this is yet another sort of talking shop exercise from putting through, as you rightly said, likes to demonstrate to western allies into the world that he's not. hello, this is exactly what he's been doing in the problem. ok, so this is supposedly, it's a defensive organization like night. so, but you looking at its membership list, armenia, bella, roost catholics. dan,

could you stand russia and to jesus? that one does who they think the enemy is and what this enemy, why might want from them collectively, they don't need to think of hooting things with permanent things for them. that's the whole design. this is an imitation of nathan, rather than nato that are not many consultations between allies this allies on this for the different. well, let's say compared to today's washer are media and just on probably in congress don't look like legend democracy. and i think about it, of course the on the most that you know the if you threaten by the i'm not let it alliance. i think that kind of sound as much more concerned about, let's say china, all the islamist mentors, the taliban in the neighboring. i've got to stand low, it's not far, far away. that much. so it is definitely not an organization

like may do in terms of understanding it's connected security needs in terms of even the military readiness, all these countries on forces. so it is again much more to political and symbolic exercise, and it was always too large that led by russia, even when boris yeltsin wasn't power when the russian designs, let's say, own global security were completely different and they were calibration. so let's, let's look at what this organization might be doing. i'm like russia, we have better route, suffering western sanctions because russia's invasion was known to, partly from its territory. and despite this, despite the sanctions, the battle reaching leader alexander lucas shanker, was called on c. s. t o members to resist western pressure here. so you will see, glistening, russia and belarus a being the famous and excluded from international organizations. yes,

the pressure is being exerted and the pressure is hard and ruthless. the pressure is on you. the c s t members for these situations collected a mutual support does exist, not that without the earliest possible cohesion about countries in that without strong ties, we may cease to exist tomorrow. constantine agate is the sas heroes remit, likely to broaden beyond military support to include a political and economic ties. as we her suggested that i listen to like a shame going is ok what. what for example, president requires all kinds of stuff. when he was listening to that, ha ha, he said no way. because i think that's how many of these leaders are actually do. the upgrade are also what they did not only offer what they did in 2014 mixing the crimea, but especially today and you're very weary or engaging in any kind of public political

or not even talking about defense activity with the russian federation. so i suppose that lucas angle has to say that because he is completely essentially captured by who is completely dependent on them. but even he denies the possibility to launch active military action against you. grain from the arson territory. bellows is a staging point, and the votes, let's say, support the east, but it's not participating in the war because lucas changes on military will be extremely reliable. in case you ordered them to do in b, u grain and open, let's say go the 2nd front against against here. so it, so frankly speaking just to talk. all right, good. talking to us ever date of the russia analyst, konstantin. i got thank ah, a small island in the black sea has become a key battleground in the russia,

ukraine war. russia seized it at the start of its invasion. snake island is just over half a kilometer long island, or 200 kilometers south of the ukrainian port of odessa. it seems vital to moscow in his bed to control the western block. see no one. the only or ukraine wants it back and continues to launch attacks on russian military equipment there, including ships. it may look like just a tiny lump of rock in the middle of the black sea. but snake island has enormous strategic importance for both russia and ukraine. so significant that it's become a key battle ground in this wall. ukraine has even produced a stamp in its honor. on this, on it an illustration of a ukrainian border guard, standing on the island and making

a rude gesture. it was inspired by roman flea bath, who received a metal for refusing to surrender the aisle to the crew of a russian warship at the start of the war. his cuss words to the russians have now become a popular ukrainian slogan. russia though, did take snake island, an outpost that used to be under soviet control. if the kremlin could occupy it permanently, it would control even more of the black sea. that would help it continue to block the exports of ukrainian goods, such as grain from key put cities like odessa. ukraine has been doing all it can to take snake island back successfully targeting russian military equipment on the island and beyond. the mosque ever

seen here in its prime was russia's black sea flagship, but it was destroyed by ukrainian forces in april. moscow is fighting back. british intelligence believes russia is trying to reinforce its garrison on snake island, including setting up long range air defense systems. military experts warned that could be a threat not only to ukraine, but also to its neighbors and nato. and so the battle for their strategic outpost goes on with neither psy prepared to back down and take a closer look with the military, our pelvic terms of security expert. they silverado policy accelerator, that's

a geo political thing. concrete, washington d. c. a. welcome to the w, and what's your assessment that how important or is it to control this time you island while symbolically of course, is very important given the episode that was just described early in the war and the value and resistance from the ukrainians in the found it, but here's the issue that the russian space. now, this island is essentially indispensable. now, given that the war ships that they would provide the defense capabilities for the island, like my squad can be sunk by the ukrainians with their napkins as a capable demonstrated last month. so they have a real issue now facing targeting from to be to drop some sort of personnel on that island. the equipment on that island just a few weeks ago, the green sway their defense system on it. so now that it's really questionable why they want to keep it so badly given that they're going to continue suffering severe casualties on it. okay, so russia having problems defending it, but russia says ukraine's taken heavy losses as it tries to recapture it. and what

do you think is ukraine, right, to keep focusing on this, this, this low outpost again, symbolically is very important. but for the grants also, this is not a strategic one. and one that they can probably defend, even if they are reoccupied, because the russians can of course, induct their strikes against that and take out any personnel or an air defense systems that are on the silent. and here's the problem. it really won't stop the blockade. the blockade is largely be enforced with submarines with surface ships, with our air strikes and artillery and missiles on and crimea. and only ne collins is really not going to change the picture much for the finance. right. so you seem to be saying that that or be symbolically important, it really doesn't make that much difference. that's right, and primarily because of a size is less than point 2 kilometers in size. and it's just too small to put significant forces on it,

but radar and significant air defenses that can be taken out with you a v like the grains of i've done in the past because i've looked at reports the same reports of people thinking well ok, but it does have a significant potential to wreak havoc on other european countries. it's pretty far and look, the russians don't need snake islands. we can come to europe and countries if they want to do so. they controlled pretty much the block. see with the black, the fleet, even with a lot of my squad. it's still have a number frigate that are highly capable of long range missiles on those frigates. they have submarines, they have force, long distance aviation that's located in crimea. so snake island really doesn't change the picture much for them. i was very interesting. thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us. dmitri l. petrovich, security expert at the silverado policy accelerator. thank you. ah don. all says it is pulling out of russia for

good. the u. s. fast food chain had previously announced the temporary closure of 850 outlets. ash, when moscow sent troops into you crime. now it says it's looking for a local buyer for all of its russian sites, which will no longer be able to use the mcdonald's name or menu. the chain says its priority is ensuring the continued payment of $62000.00 employees until the sale goes through. donaldson 1st opened and more in moscow, more than 30 years ago, shortly before the soviet you on today's almost done, but the conversation continues online. you'll find us on twitter. i've at a d w. so you follow me out to fill gail? good day. ah

ah with ah, carol india ah, how to rescue and solve india's huge wasted problem. start up in new delhi has the solution. it turns out food into animal feed from the city. the project is finding consensus and not just among the cows. he go

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