since the platform with these issues has your idea, ah, you know, or this channel, we are not afraid to happen. delicate topic africans population is growing fast. and young people clearly have the solution for future loans. for you is 77 percent. every weekend on d. w with russian troops are stepping up there offensive in ukraine's industrial hard land, slowly but steadily sees in ground with overwhelming fire power and bloody tactics that are taking a heavy toll on ukraine's defenders. as the conflict becomes a war of attrition, ukraine continues to call for additional supplies of the heavy weapons that could

help it hold off the invaders can and will europe, and germany deliver. today we're asking russian offensive. is the tide turning in proteins favor? ah. hello and welcome to to the point. it is a pleasure to introduce our guests beginning with lat her lunch bags. she's a swedish author and journalist who writes a regular column for the renowned swedish daily spencer, good dog, bladder, and krista fun. marshall is a returning gret guess. great to have you back. his diplomatic corresponded for the berlin newspaper, their tag, ashby, go. and joining us from bond is my ukrainian colleague, aroma, no gunshot eco who works with d w's, russian language service. roman. if i may, i'd like to start right away with

a question about how you assess the current situation in dun bass. in fact, russian forces are pressing forward house by house village by village. how bad are the losses they are inflicting when we, what you're seeing now is probably the most difficult part of this war for the last 100 years, 100 days. so since february, when russia openly attacked your crime, russia is gaining ground slowly, but it's gaining ground. and it's because russia changes tactics, so it's now pressing in one, just in one direction on a very, relatively small piece of land. it's, it's a concentrated strike and you have to understand it's, it's a place where you crane had 8 years to build. so it's, it's lines to prepare for this war. that is why when the war started in february, russians were not moving at all or more in very, very slowly this,

so they had no success there. now they have some success and it could be a russian momentum. but still, it's too early to tell if the, if, if we will see a major offensive and fast moving forward, the russian forces in the coming weeks. but the situation is very, extremely dangerous, i would say. and how bad are the casualties? well, we do not have a reliable information about the casualties. it was unusual to hear the ukrainian president followed him as a landscape talking about 50 to 100 ukrainian soldiers being killed every day. i think the actual figure might be high on sundays. so it's a very huge loss and you have to understand ukraine doesn't have as much as much military as russia. so the human globe, the human dimension of this war is, is very, very dangerous for your crime. so your brain is losing its best trained soldiers.

and if there is no quick help from the worst, i mean with weapons deliveries, heavy weapons and to tank weapons. and all other weapons, it will be very difficult for ukraine to hold that eastern ukrainian region, industrial heartland, as you said, and we will come to weapons deliveries in just a moment. let me go to lata your as a defense minister, the swedish defense minister spoke to our colleagues in dw news yesterday and told them that the russian invasion has changed the security situation in europe as a whole quite drastically. would you agree with that? oh, definitely. that's why we have sent in the application for a membership, a nato, which was made a, gets a frantic in a way because 3 months ago, the sale of the same minister of defense said, i would never over my dead body. i would enter the nato, and now we've realized how dangerous it must be because he changed his mind. and

he's not the kind of guy who just can, you know, it's not to populist. this is dangerous, and this had to go very fast. and i want to come back a little bit later to how public opinion sees that. but let me for 1st ask you christa, foreign minister lever off of russia has called done bass app. so the key for russia strategic goals. why is that? what is so important? about this region in the east and do you expect that its fall could be imminent? well, russians, little bits changed their goals for the war. at the beginning, it was a want to change the government and key f as they wanted to occupy. most of you korean, they failed. so now it's a new definition. what could also constitute success or with dory? and that is a sudden change. the dawn bus is very important because you have

a russian speaking m minority majority. however you, you put it and a part of the don bus is already occupied since 2014. so they just want to enlarge this, this piece of land. and that makes it very difficult for you create ukrainian forces because the russians are not concentrating or what they have on the smaller region and the ukrainians. and that is a little bit now the default of the west as well. this was predictable that it would come to that was a situation that ukraine forces which would need very quickly, more heavy weapon. they are on the wave. but if the west would have started to live at that sooner, they would be in a better situation. i'm not a big military strategist, i can only tell you what i hear from military strategist and germany and us what they are telling to me and the optimistic picture as that see tight my turn in the next 23 weeks when the heavy weapons which the west of us are in place and the

ukraine sodas are trained on it. and so we would see a better situation for the, for ukraine in july or early august that the losses are very heavy. and they 1st, they have to come over this period of the next 234 weeks without giving away too much ground. because that's the other side. if the russians get more ground and have some time to establish more defense structures over there, then it will be very hard to get that back. it's easier if you keep the situation flowing and then your green might be successful in holding and also regaining territory. and we're going to take a look at the defense if you're interested, maybe a yeah. to short remarks, i slightly disagree with russian aims. i think that the aim to replace the government to change the ukranian government and to occupy as much of your credit as possible is still russian. a russia just put that aside and said ok,

we can wait. it's a war of attrition now and it will be months and also says we have bigger resources, we can do it. and the 2nd thing is with western weapons are coming. that is correct . but russia is also attacking your ukrainian trains, delivering those weapons. and we do not know, we don't have reliable information, how much is lost on the way and is not coming where it should come. i mean, in the east where the fighting is now. and this is also a problem because ukrainian ukraine have, has very great, great difficulties, i would say in delivering fast weapons. it is a big, huge country. it's, it's a very long distance. russia has a lot of enough time to attack women just very briefly, why is done best so important to russia? is it that famous land bridge? the connection to the quinn? is it to crimea? is it the gas reserves that are in the eastern region? what, what is it that makes this, their key focus at the moment?

i don't, i don't not saying that on boss is more important than the north where key of the capital is or east where crimea is. and russia was worried about supplying crimea with water from the current in the river, the pro. so it is all important. maybe russia thought that in don bars, we can sell it as a victory better because we've been asked in at the beginning of the war that we will liberate those territories and not having success there was, was kind of a propaganda problem. maybe this is the reason or they thought if we strike there are we, we do a concentrated strike and we move forward. and then we'll, it will be easier for us to go further because this is where most breast train ukrainian troops are concentrated in the east, in don bass striking there and may be trying to encircled them. this is what russian name is and then it will be easier for them to move in other directions. now, thank you very much. now let us take a look at those weapons or deliveries that have been mentioned several times

despite frequent pledges of support for ukraine. germany has faced criticism both at home and abroad for doing too little too late. now, chancellor, will our shots is promising to send ukraine a modern air defense system, but will it get there in time? with heavy fire power and concentration of its troops, the russian army has recently been making significant gains in terrain in the dumbass ukraine has little to counter this overwhelming superiority of 11 to one at the moment. one reason, the lack of heavy weapon deliveries by germany and its allies. heavy weapons like the already promised gap tank or the how bitter 2000 nowhere to be seen for its hesitant attitude. the german government is therefore being criticized at home and abroad on a regular basis. this means that is not prudence,

that his hesitation that his death brain salad, his timidity, this is, thinks michigan, a defensive mode from the german chancellor. in the bonus tag, he promises more deliveries. in the coming weeks, we will also deliver more weapons. so the german government has just decided to supply the ukraine with the iris t system. the most advanced air defense system germany has. germany has, however, already promised to land that is it enough and will it really arrive? and let me put that question straight to kristof. and after that, after that announcement, by chance there, schultz, the foreign minister and lena bear buck said it could take some months for this surface to air system to get to ukraine. yeah, so germany is a little bit acting too little, too late. that's. i think that's fair criticism. one could also look at it from a different perspective of a big european countries are not doing much more,

take france or italy, and they are not on the spot. germany is on the spot because it is the country. everybody's looking to for leadership in, in europe. and so i think germany should be criticized for it. and also just announcing, said they will send additional things to day that a suddenly a reaction of chancellor thoughts. he feels the criticism has to react to it. but the real test is whether it arrives and when it arrives or these questions are really important. i think there are 2 lines where shots is moving, but very slowly because he is a very risk adverse or politician. and what might be helpful to day might be wrong in 3 months from now for the support of the population. so he makes 2 lines. first of all, his parties, a sort of democrats are much more comfortable if they can say, well, we deliver defensive weapons, not weapons for attack. so for example, heavy tanks like the legal part they don't want to deliver, although it would help. and the 2nd line generally is yeah,

your cream should defend itself. it shall not lose the war rush of winds war. but this is cautious assessment, but we shouldn't give you korean weapons which, which they could attack russian territory instead of something president by not. yes, it's also want to come back to that in just a moment, but let me ask lots her to give us an outside perspective, because i know you have been watching germany for, for a long time now and reporting on it. so in his historic speech on february 27th right after this invasion began, chancellor short called it a turning point. and many people who heard that speech felt that we were perhaps finally seeing germany move into a readiness to play a leadership role in europe in communist security and foreign policy. but also beyond that to finally punch at its weight as it were. do you think it has follow through? is it walking the talk? no. i think that the germans are identifying with the projections that they've been

had at them since the 2nd world war. and they really are really good as identifying with being the bad guy. they really are terminating themselves with things that happened 70 years ago. and therefore there is this talk about no more war, no more war and german grounds. now align sign and all of this and this is, this is holding the germans back. there is also a, i would say, rather than negativity towards the americans in germany and you do or the germans to identify with moscow. m a and a s p there is said the social democrats are very torn. and even in sweden, we can watch this and say that he is not clear. and i mean, he was now yesterday, but it's still not very german because the german city acting on you know what they

say, and they always have. so it was clear, and yet 2 thirds of the speech were devoted to domestic economic issues and social solidarity, which was great to see hesitate. that's the big question. even in sweden, we're waiting for him. let's let's ask roman why. he thinks, chance or shorts hesitates because you to have been observing german politics and foreign policy for a long time. do you think this is his personal leadership style that restrained northern german approach? or is it the legacy of the social democratic party and those ties to moscow and aust politic that lot just mentioned or is it perhaps that he's been essentially intimidated by putting scare tactics? i think it's all of those things and i would add one more. i think it's also fear

that russia could cut off gas supplies suddenly and germany economy would suffer. i think this is also something that he has in mind when he's hesitant in making a decision and deliver heavy weapons to ukraine as soon enough. so i think, yes, of course there is a legacy of the, his part of the social democrats there are, there is a very strong pacifist movement in germany as a country, not just in among people who vote for speedy, but among other other parts of the country. so there are very strong ties to russia in east, in germany, and all those people are very skeptical about weapons delivery. so the society is split, i would say, and we have, and this is what polls are also showing. we have some 40 percent in favor of delivering of a heavy weapons and like 3738 i think against it. so this is

something that shows also is considering and what he will have to decide. and i think he's moving in that direction. but moving slowly, christa, do you think the chancellor is right to be cautious to be fearful that a stronger german and more proactive approach could in fact, precipitate world war 3 as he actually himself has said, personally in the military field, i think he's too cautious it's a different thing with economy and sanctions or so i would here give us an answer. from my point of view, russians are much more afraid of nato was a conventional weapons, whether it's nuclear weapons than we should be afraid of russian weapons in the long run. the west, the u. s. u. s. has an economic resources which, 16 times to 20 times as thick as rush us economic resources. so if this is

a war of attrition, if it last long, then it's for my part of your no question. who will win as long as there is see political determination to support ukraine as long as they want to fight and give them what they need. but germans are afraid of this nuclear thing and we just have to remind ourselves we where it's a front lance, east, germans, and west germans for almost half a century. if there had happened a nuclear war, it would be on the territory of germany. and that, that has an influence and on our, on our thinking we, i think of shots as wise, not to push economic sanctions too far because i think we all have to understand that m sanctions should be painful for the enemy, much more than to your own economy, otherwise you might lose over the midterm range, the support of your voters, and that is the real danger. and i want to take a look at sanctions in just a moment. but latter, do you see similar divisions in public opinion within sweden,

the economist recently wrote about western attitudes as a whole. as this conflict becomes a war of attrition and said it seeing the emergence of a peace camp on the one hand and injustice camp on the other. the justice camp being those who say they put in a breach of international law cannot be permitted to stat. would you say there's a similar division of attitude in your own country? absolutely. yeah. on the other hand, sweden always wants to be the best in the class. so now we've decided to join nato, and everyone is kind of stuffing us. push that is just united us even more before add one. talk about us, letting the terrorist walk the streets and you know that he didn't put his veto into this. it was more torn and wireless. now we have gathered behind the idea that we have to deliver suite and is one of the largest deliver in country that livers the most them number one country per capita would deliver to

most weapons and yeah, their discussion is there, of course, for sure. but you are moving ahead with nato membership, and that is a quite a big turning point. you're sweden, let me just go back to rome and very quickly, if you would roman the u. s. is also now promising to supply sophisticated surface to air weapon systems do you? and they also though, have extracted a pledge from the ukranian government that these will not be used to fire on to west on to russian territory. that was actually mentioned by christoph earlier number one. will that pledge do you think be respected? is it in fact requiring ukraine to fight with one hand behind its back? and number 2, will this pledge be enough to placate russia? well i think you current has the, is not interested in using those weapons on the russian territory,

cranes. it was very or, or at least that was my impression was very strange in taking russian territory. we do not have a reliable information about that. there was some explosions in the board not far from the board of oil refineries and things like that, but that was it. so ukraine did not attack. i think it was like, further deeper into rush and stay. so crimea was not really attacked. and now ukraine is not in a position even to a tech, to rush and tell it, or even with those weapons that will be delivered. next. those are multiple rocket launchers. they only have a relatively short range of medium range, i would say. and i do not think ukraine has an interest in russia, has signal to very clear a few grain does that. we will, we will, we have all options on the table including nuclear. so i don't think you credible

risks are. thank you very much. let's take a very quick look at the issue of sanctions and in fact the european union has now agreed on its 6th package of sanctions. but getting to yes wasn't easy. will pumps from russian fields is no longer welcome. in most parts of the u. d. u. leaders in brussels reached an unexpected breakthrough on the 6th sanctions package just around midnight on monday night. these sanctions are biting heart and are really, are destroying. and that's the goal on the basis their financial basis of putting, leading this war and hitting heart the russian economy. but the embargo only applies to oil imports by ship and compromise to keep hungary on board. the country will continue to receive russian oil through the so called drug bar pipeline for the time being. the sanctions also exclude russia's largest bank from swift,

benz 3 fir, the russian state broadcasters, and sanctions those responsible for war crimes. but how effective is this 6th sanctions package? let me put their question straight away to christophe. but coupled with the observation that this exception for the jewish by pipeline doesn't only affect hungry or so poland and germany get oil via this pipeline. so if they were so serious about western unity, shouldn't they actually being foregoing, that oil now? yeah, but they don't want to do that. i mean, poland and germany made the deals that are preparing to face out over the next half year. so they want to get there until january of next year and just gets a timeline in comparison that we don't know how long the war last. so hungary was not the only guy or was the only country in the room which would have problems with an oil embargo just right now. also bulgaria as a check republic and so on. and so,

but we should blame her hungary for not being willing to find the compromise to play only on its own interests. and he, i think see, you has to think about to which degree or the importance we give to unity isn't overrated. i think in this case we should sometimes tell countries, you know, we can do consensus minus one and it's a strong signal of 26 countries. and every time the issue, as mentioned, hungary would be blamed for not trying to join you. so more political pressure by you minus one might be a good tool. yes. and in fact their cost to drop maturity at a consensus voting, but that would be a whole show in itself. so we won't go there. lotta when you look at the state of this much vaunted western unity, are you concerned that it could shatter going forward? i didn't get the question now. what? chattered the western unity this united front that the west has celebrated and

rightfully so. in the beginning of the war. well that's definitely one of putting the goals we, you know, the 3 that we employed or that we depart from one another. so we just have to be aware that that's must never happen. because the war against the ukraine is not a war just against the ukraine. it's war against western values. it's an imperialistic war. and if we don't get that we, we, we are in serious trouble. let me take us all back to the title of this program and we asked essentially whether the tide is turning in proteins, favour roman. how do you see it? oh, we're not hearing you to show that. go ahead. tied could be turning for protein. could be turning for promoting, but it is short term prospective and immediate term and in the long term, i think putting will lose definitely the sub same feelings that i think they tied

this just for the moment turning but not in the long run. see west? well, when, if they are committed to support your pre letter, we have to deliver, we have to deliver now. thank you. thank you to all of you very much for being with us and thank you also to our audience for tune again. see you soon. a with

ah ah ah, ah, is the end of the pandemic in site? we show what it could look like. will return to normal. and we visit those who are finding it difficult with successes on their

resume in our weekly coven, 19 special. in 30 minutes on d. w. o. clinico is in germany to learn german lodge. benita, why not learn with him online, on your mobile and free chest c, w e learning course, eco's vague. it is a secret in endless one action to the conflict between iran on the one hand and israel and the united states on the other a more than 40 years. the adversaries have been irreconcilable. there is never been any real dialogue. how did this confrontation begin? how great is the danger that it will spread the long war? his will?

iran usa starts june 15th on d. w. a mentioned being blue. you are alive. can't prove it. you want to learn, but no school take you one. but i'm allowed to. when you see the doctor's note, when you fall in love, they won't mind. you don't have children for fear they'll be invisible. you're sure you have no. when you die, there's no clue at breakfast. every 10 person like this is 10000000 people in the world. the state, they have no nationality in

a total. they don't belong. but everyone has the right. everyone has the right to say, michael ah, this is the w news live from berlin. thousands are dead. millions displaced and cities reduced to rubble off the $100.00 days of war. ukraine is still holding out against russia's invasion. bought is an already catastrophic situation about to get even worse.