for the next 100 years, how to prevent these minor planets, heating earth in the future. sciences on the case. to morrow to day. in 60 minutes on d, w. a global ideas is on its way to bring you more conservation. how do we make cities greener? how can we protect habitats? we can make a difference. global ideas, environmental series in global 3000 on d, w, and online. hello and welcome to a special edition of the 77 percent. is the sure where we discussed the topics important to you? africa youth. i am your host edie mike, a junior now on today. sure. with discussing how to deal with the past. then i'm maybe an genocide to be precise.

it's known as the 1st genocide of the 20th century of a time german colonial forces. the pained killed on 4th herrera and now my people into the desert where they died of thirst on starvation and all this because the germans once had the hero. and now my land, the issue of land on compensation still hung so by the head of the medians. today, my colleague either kamani went to the town of canada and asked young medians what the feel needs to be done. the hello and welcome to another edition of the 77 percent. now in may of 2021, both the german and the median government. finally struck a deal on what to do about atrocities committed in this country by the former colonial power. he, among those discussions was what to do about the descendants of the genocide that unfolded right here in boca cut out. now that, that agreement has been made public,

there are those who say it's time to move on and there are those who say it's still not enough. the question we're asking today is, is it really possible to pay for trust is committed in the path and the people here today are going to help me answer that question. and to begin with, elaine, because i think it's important for us to get an overview of the history. why is this so important and why is it relevant to now? and i didn't oh, for the germans has which war against the communities in the media? and this was ordered by the auto lotor controlled by ota, ordered his troops to eradicate all the she had. no speaking people, then he has seen did the words, like if you see a woman or a child, you must make sure that the are eliminated. he repeated this 19 o 4, with another community of the nama community within the media, and the intention was intentional that these people has to be eradicated just like it is up, and we fear it was in 90, no 4. as a result, we have lost 12,

we have lost lint and the german government in the german communities has benefited somehow with this atrocity that it is up in to day. they own this linda, that was taken for us to be the seat on the wolf. that as a result we have lost. so serious consequences that you say are still being felt to day left. come to some mean who's a journalist here. i just want to understand, i mean, when you read that history text and you hear what happened, it's obviously very brutal but suddenly not unique in these parts of africa. but why is it only being discussed now? and it's always been there. ah, nobody has always spoken about it back in the day until in 2006 when a former of i had a leader. but also he was part of the parliament or iraq or who spoke about i'm who table the motion in parliament sort of to have germany own speak to to admit that it was a genocide. what had happened then, and then to speak to reparations. and then of course us forgiveness. so obviously

germany taking the unprecedented move to not just accept that this happened, but to also offer an apology. so charmaine, another shami. ah, you know, somebody might be listening to this from another part of african c, hey, namibia and germany have done be impossible. getting these 2 nations to sit on the table and reach some form of agreement. so why is it that we're hearing that it's not enough? a lot of descendants form of a hero in the number said have still experienced their the still still the update or the still still the genocide still amongst as to be just when the germans to acknowledge what happened and to stick responsibility in accountability for what transpired in just so that we can also find that closure that we seek. ok. so just to come back to your point because you're saying that you want the germans to accept responsibility and you want them to apologize. haven't they done that as part of this agreement? they basically said that yes, something did happen. they don't really say that we did this or may answer, not we,

but my dentist, our ancestors did this to your people and we are sorry for that. and we just went as to now look at building a future together. let me come to v here very now because we're hearing that there are some long term consequences of the genocide that unfolded it a 118 years ago. what are some of these consequences, or one of those is growth or a loss that has been lost, where our communities are? you go up north, you find her communities or in brazier crocodile and entity in terms of attire, in terms of footing, dose of cultural differences, co a little bit more central to the over her community. if these are cultural attire that they speak off, it's the uniform of the war of 99 for nothing before that is, is presented as culture or is in terms of of our report. yes i'm, let's go to its hipaa there because he was actually one of the people whose family was forced out of let me be

a because of the war and his recently just come back but you were born in botswana . so displacement of puzzles was also another consequence. can you tell me about your family's experience? yes, indeed. we, we suffered a lot for the effect that do we have to migraine green parents have to fit here to botswana in order to save your lives. since we came back to namibia by 1993, by the time or as 2 years old, we still feel that much has not been done by the germans. you run in the form of a white men or a colonizer who claim to inherit the land from their parents, and you drive 30 kilometers around and square meters. you can named him, it's only for a family, but you will find nanny beans infected families who have been tied to or affected by the genocide. living in a parameter of 10 kilometers, part of lent may be 30 homestead. we are,

we are getting poor every day. we are being defected, our lifestyles, poverty is almost hunting us. now, let's hear from harry here because he's one of the land owners, but also a 3rd generation namibian. so by all means you, anna may be. and so how does it feel to hear that the descendants of the germans are the ones who took our land and if it wasn't for this, then we'd be in a better place of 1st of all, i think it, it's very, very important that we have this debated so it's it's, it's a very important aspect to, to, to nation building at the other point that to me in terms of land, you know, that the people who came here, none of them stole any land. the that the people who came here bought the land under the laws of the government of the day. so and so the people who have bought land since independence have bought it under the, under the current dispensation people before that and, and, and,

and the different dispensations that we had in the last 110 years would established a, a is a framework of, of laws, and within these laws, the state these forms were, were bought legally. this is a commercial entity. this is a, something new by you sell you, you, you inherit. i employ a unit about at least 40 people permanently in about 8080 people in terms of further, you know, to, or of chalk, or they are probably about 400 people living off this of this, of this form of ours. if you, if you multiplied by families and that kind of thing, some of you say 30 kilometers driving with 11 family, i'm sorry sir. i mean, you know, that is just not how commercial farming works. okay. i see you already have a response. go for it. i really want to respect the, the, the view of harry on this. yeah. but if you have to go back to the drawing print, how did the white communities acquired lent in namibia?

just because you had a soldier, you get a reward of the means of production, which is lent. and then because you have it, you, your, your, your, your, you are able to lead your generation inherited this, the law that is there was just, mainly for the purpose of protecting those that had, let you take the constitutionally, i chapters you think that the government of namibia and the constitution is designed to protect people a carry. exactly. because if you talk of the constitution that has the chapters that can not be touched in that cannot be amended, what do you think they are doing? they are protecting those that has, let me come back to you hurry because we're hearing that the laws are designed to protect people like you. and that actually it would be nice if you could perhaps share your wealth. how do you feel about that? the share share my wealth. yeah. i'll donate, i've had people say land is not something that makes you rich. land is something

that you can utilize in order to make money. very few people to actually manage to get rich of land in. and the other point that i'd like to make because some of the land that can be utilized in such a way that it actually does make you get you financially stable is available on the, on the free market. the, the issue of land is not equal to financial wealth. right. but i'm know, coming to you, lorraine, because you're a youth member of this community. highly affected. do you think that the problems of this community is facing really do them from a 118 years ago? or is it of your government just not stepping up to the plate of government has nothing to do with it because if what have been didn't happen, then our government should be blamed for it. i believe that everything has to do with the past. and if the bus is actually recognized and put into place,

i think that the government one have to be blamed for anything. then. all right, let me come back to you very now because i keep hearing that, you know, you're not satisfied very simply. what do you want? the amount that was offered is not enough. simply because we are talking of lind that needs to be reclaimed. we are talking of, for example, origin like commas or what happened to the people that lived there before. the gym and settled in windows was you get less for the report. then you can talk about agriculture for them. you can talk about the future for them. can talk about training for them because the only way it can say this is home. so you get back huge trucks of land and there's some form of development in this area. does that solve the problem badly? yes. because i believe lend is the basis of life. so why do we have people have people if lend, then they can generate with i totally,

i totally believe that you're making it sound like this. absolutely no land available in this country for the indigenous people. but what harry said is true, that there is land available for sale. their farms that are available is communal property that is perhaps even idle. so how will acquiring moreland, she has a situation that's what i'm trying to understand. how does one without any money, if? well, if emily of generation or wake us, so to say, how do the linda? because i think $1.00 of the most expensive, i'm in the world know just in africa in the world. so you are telling me that they affect the community. my budget is one of the most expensive asset. you know what, how do they do that? it's virtually impossible. all right, and let me come to here because you live in this area and i just want to hear from you, you know, historically in your family, what do people do to earn a living?

do they work on the farm? what do they do to keep to that of what our biggest from is that from in our district. but we have literally no lend that is available was, will leave the as did but, and or many by the white every day waking up and to see that people are suffering in my, in my area where everything actually had been as to come big and thing wise, our people suffering away, are we the ones to be suffering if we are in or on our lint owning land as very now said it, it will make a better future for us, or it will advance our leaving standards. we get land, we get farms where we can start our businesses and our youth or our young ones can create a better future for themselves. okay? and so, i mean, i want to come to you, ah, if land is indeed bought and sold to namibian,

how will it change the situation? i keep coming back to this question because there's a lot of rural to urban migration right now who is going to take care of this land . if you look at places where lot of of i hear people or even number people leave for instance, you see it's barren, let it dry. i'm. if you come to the other side of, let's say, namibia way, the land that is predominantly white owned in also to some point like more german, the lent is, is fertile and they can be able to create wealth from that. the, what is it of, i hope people will still remain suffering unless really they scrape of the deal. like a lot of experts have said, and then just that, you know, for instance, german, even if these become reconstruction and reconciliation, for instance, how will this money or these funds will be used to buy farms for the affected communities? by the way, i want to make it very clear that the german government has been careful not to call this fund reparations, but rather what she said reconciliation and reconstruction program. so you're not doing very much here. let me do something to say to me because i imagine that

education is really important. we saw what happened in zimbabwe when land was forcefully taken from the white settlers. there. there were problems of food security, not to mention clear ups of racial tension. we don't want to see a repeat of actually we do not want to see the repeat of it. that's why we have adopted that constitution of us as much as i see it has been skewed and are protecting them more than they affect the community. we love that constitution, but how, how do we live within these? how do we realize that what we are currently owning has come as a result of the suffering of the cutting people? all right, let me come to you. i mean, because i think we've exhausted the issue of land, but isn't it more useful to spend this money on development because 1000000000 is not a small amount of money. yeah, i know most definitely. if you think it's small. yes. her with that

said, i definitely agree in that regard because as well thought like why can't this be an agreement of where you know, the descendants of the, of a hero enamel. people are given glance to go study whether it's in germany or any other country or within m a b itself is well, we can educate the descendants in order for them to have a brighter future cause that is the aim. we want them to have a better future. we want them to do better than what happened with the ancestors freight. let me come back to lorraine here, because earlier you said that your government should not be blamed for the events unfolded a 118 years ago. correct, there are consequences which we can't escape from. but again, i ask, you've lived in this area, your whole life. it's poorly developed. what makes you think that another 1b2b2xb will change that a let's see regarding the money. money is really not that much to me, it feels like the, the trying to run away from the exhaust that the, the, the just want to close the chapter thing for a final deal to woo, you know this,

we will, i affected in the money you're sending already not enough in your range. what last, what's enough enough is when the realize that people need lent ends as it is already, they want to close the chapter in the giving money and all that the the effect that the people that are there already. i afraid of losing it and we want it as well. all right, let me ask harry, are you afraid of losing the land? would you be willing to part with it? for example, if there was a willing by i say, was a willing buy and i went to 2 to 2 sellers. i would sell a land after all, it's a business and, and, and land is a business land needs to be productive. land needs to produce create jobs. commercial farming is indeed something that the american contributes to the national economy. that doesn't exclude, not at all, the communal side of things. and it's something where we from a commercial side,

are interested to listen. we can, we contribute in order to, to, to find a current common common future. and that is really what it's about. it's about the future isn't let me hear from you any because i saw him nodding rather vigorously while you are speaking. it is because you are agreeing with his sentiments. i do agree with the sentiment of having him to crush the future together in that's what we are say, let's, let's not be framed and be put in the corner of how much is enough. and so i always asking, this is how do you quantify that loss of life, muscle culture, dispossession of land? how do you put a figure to this? is it so difficult is it is that you can put a price on the life. but this will not take effect that, that lost of life. that last of land that lost off of your humanity has put you in the current leaving standard there to have. and has benefited the other party. we are now saying, please realize this and see what you can do and you have to be realistic in terms

of how is it possible that a 1000000000 that we claim would be enough? how would it a elevate this property? how will it uplift this community that has lost that much for that long laney, a lot of people saying, you know, the german government needs to do this. the german government needs to do that. but at some point you have to ask, where does the namibian government come in? when it, in terms of genocide, these one part that is responsible for that? and for sure it's no dinner may be an. it is, it's the german government. so our fire, you said this should be, this should be recognize the apology has to be tended, and repression has to be paid on this. so once that is achieved, then we can talk about the namibian government on how are we going to make sure that these communities that has been affected are benefiting from what is owed to them so that they can at least get uplifted okay, from the current level of life they are living by the way,

i think it's really important to mention that presidential my from germany was due to actually come to namibia to present this document in front of the namibian government for ratification. but because of cove, if that didn't happen, but this is obviously in the books. okay. so he spent a great deal of time looking at the past and looking at the land issues. but i want to ask a critical question, and i think i'll come back to you. sure. mean, is this a nod, you know, to the rest of, from a colonial powers that it's time to step up and take responsibility. could this be the precedent that we need? i mean it could have been effective germany stacked to the motion of 2006. i'm where they had to acknowledge that it's a genocide, as opposed to germany in the agreement saying, it's a genocide in 2 days. perspective, what is today's perspective? what does that mean? it's a general site, not today's perspective. reparations bay, the reparations. and i know the us get wind demant if more or more other people are more, the content will come back to germany and also hold it accountable for whatever atrocities they might have cost. and then we need the chancellor, for instance,

this is a call from the of i had it in number of people in that is that division? you know, it will always be there until we get to that point. so for you, the little things matter. yes. language matters, the person who sent to apologize matter. yes. okay. so show me the how the show me, where do we go from here? you know, because it took 6 years to get this deal alone. so do we need another 6 years? if you take another 6 years, you will never reach in agreement. it does contingency like no, but now we went this in this edit as well. so if we could just was asking where does it stop? exactly. so we could just come to a conclusion or reach an agreement as we are currently, and just take it from the because we have to look at the future. we have to look at building something. we have to look at developing. we have to grow as a nation. i feel that we need to look at it in the just look forward to what the future holds for all of as okay. let me speak to veronica here because she was obviously very frustrated. and you could tell that she's very, very angry,

which is surprising because you're just 18. what will it take for you to be less angry to not feel like, you know, the children of harry here are your enemies. but you fellow know, maybe i want to be angry with harris children because he had knowledge the fact that he did something wrong. and yes, we are here. i find that interesting that you said harry acknowledged his mistake. so you actually don't see any difference between harry as a descendant of colonial power occupants, and the actual colonizers. i do. but harry is one of the land owners. now media, as you stated earlier and acknowledge the fact that he's white german, german, he's let me be and i may be in ok, he's not me be. and i was mind what in a post, anything that his children or he seats because he's not media now. and he acknowledges the fact that he have done something wrong. he's offended somebody and he's ready

to o, his fellow there to correct whatever it is that isn't done 100 in look, i really appreciate you try your best to be politically correct. come to the area for a 2nd because obviously we've heard it, you know, vasa did, we've had another person. say blacks, whites, surely it must be painful to know that you are a member of this country and there's so much other ring. how do we get past that then maybe it's with this language group and compared to that one and i've not. so you know, i am namibian. i'm through certain ration that may be in the fall. mom was on let me know, belongs to my family for the last 111 years. i have never lived in the country then . then in the media, i speak for languages including including the local one. i mean, you know, not very well, but i mean, you know, medical and it's an our interest as namibia needs to go

hit or the at that the end of the day it is about the future together. okay. so what i'd like to hear your thoughts about the future, how do we make sure that we're able to move forward? you know, we need to move, we, we cannot extend for, from the past we had been effected. we need to move, support the, the agreement in place, and then just change the phrasing of the, of the document itself. and or those of a technical does that scene in the, in the, in the adjuster declaration. ok. and finally, very now, earlier you said that, look, this is not enough, but at some point the negotiations have to return. and so where do you see it ending? once we we see that the germans are really willing to accept and acknowledge that whatever and whether genocide it was not war crimes, it was not to ex of in, you mean to torture,

whatever it was a genocide other than that, aside from their money, which is not enough, i think the issue of culture has really been touched on. culture is sales price go to self dignity. surely there must be the there was something that we lost somewhere along the line. yeah. how really claim. well, i think that's a very difficult question and one, but quite as a whole other debate on returning stolen artwork. this, but i think this is a good place to end. and i wanted to just draw from this agreement, which by the way, is a 6 page document. thank. are it all of you to look at it. and this is how i want to conclude. it's not possible to undo what has been done, but the suffering in humanity and pain inflicted on the 10s of thousands of innocent men, women and children by germany during the war is in what is to dana me be a must not be forgotten. it must serve as a warning against racism and genocide. thank you for watching

a ah, we don't wonder conversations and hear. so tell us what you think command on youtube instagram or write to us at 77, a. d, w dot com. for now. i'll leave you with some music from my fellow gun in black roster, and jar amber. the songs are africa. good bye for now with jamie shaw, with golden, with ah, with ah

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