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hello. hello and welcome from dw is global media forum in bond. my name is karen homestead, as foundations are being shaken all over the globe. d. w culture has chosen to look to sub saharan africa, where the creative scene is positively booming and attracting, increasing international attention. but this incredible wealth of artistry is too often under cut by a lack of funding, lack of infrastructure, conflict, or even oppressive political regions. which means that artists have some very tough decisions to make, to stay or to go. to what extent can creative industries foster change and development in their home countries and how can they have maximum impact?

or we've gathered a group of creatives from africa and the african diaspora to discuss these questions. and these are my guests. roberts, chicago, lanny sent ta more better known by his stage named bobby. why is singer musician, activist and politician from uganda, leader of the national unity platform party, former opposition and p, and presidential candidate. and he says that politics is simply to various a business to leave it to the politicians. welcome bobby, and thank you for being with us. della gaetano is a writer opinion columnist and a pharmacist from south to dunn in march, she fled sudan to germany with the help of the german pen. and she says that art is a living thing. it can't grow in dark rooms and needs space to be freely expressed, accepted, and supported. thank you for being on my left is also a hyundai, a, somebody, he's a photographer from cameron who lives and works in amsterdam with over 200 exhibitions in more than 100 countries. she's one of the most accomplished african

photographers of her generation. africa is her greatest inspiration, and as she believes, a continent with matchless opportunities and where everything is possible. welcome all day. and last, but not least, over here on my ride, eke enable way is an award winning director and cultural entrepreneur from lagos in nigeria. he's now considered one of the champions of the emerging emerging new african cinema and normally would veteran. but his documentary, no, you turn just about a special mention award at the belly nala berlin's international film festival in, in early this year. and he says that there is a relationship between migration and the types of films that we've promoted in the past. been a forward to your insights, it can able have a warm welcome weekend. i'd like to start with you because over 20 years ago you set out to leave nigeria to make your fortune in europe, but you ended up aborting the journey. so just tell us what was it that made you

decide to leave? i had just finished my apprenticeship in which i served my master for 7 years. and normally after you finish your apprenticeship, you're supposed to be given seed money so that you can start your own business. and sometimes he doesn't work out like that. and i just happened to be one of those ones that didn't work out. and i was just about to turn 20 and had nothing. and the reason why i even started into the apprenticeship was so that i can make something out of myself. so i can help my mother and my siblings, cuz i'd lost my dad when i was to. and then i had that it was possible to travel to europe by route, and with little or no money. that experience inspired your very 1st documentary film to very personal film that really manifests our central question to stay or to go. ah,

26 years ago. i came to this mouth to boast, park in boston, there goes along with my friends. our goal was to close this trip of gibraltar and make our fortunes in europe in no, you turn, he came may, boy, we traces his own path to europe. on his journey, he meets people who just as he once did, are trying to leave africa. but get stranded in different countries along the way. they survive by working on jobs and restaurants, or st vendors, new brands with a film about hope, disappointment, and be enduring. dream of europe became a boy has also made feature. i know you turn his 1st documentary deals with an issue that still very well event today wanting to

so many young nigerians embark on such a perilous journey. ah, ah, what did you learn about young people's motivations to day to go and make and take on that journey? well, sadly, 27 years after is still the same motivations is to basically about economics. and it's still basically about people. and seeking for self actualization. it's about looking for a place under the sun where you can actually dream, and it's so sad that young people in africa do not feel that this. and i'm going to go over to you, stella gaetano. he recently came to germany, tell us, why did you have to face with them as people know sedan, an phil 1011. it's like

a split or 2 countries. and i went to the niece and then i become a south. so dennis, i couldn't find myself in flower or in north i still want to be as a sudan, is we supposed to unite? not to is lit again, 2 pieces of, of come to this and, and that was my idea and i think people not accepted that into sudan like i couldn't express myself. well, am i supposed to keep silence for a long time? so to understand this very complex situation, political situation as della gaetano has just described a there with its neighbor, with south sudan with its neighbor to the north sudan. let's have a quick look at this. the republic of the sudan is africa's 3rd largest country. it's capital is cartoon since independence in 1956, the country has mostly been under military rule due to armed conflicts between the

government and rebels, sectarian and ethnic violence. many millions have fled. recurring droughts lead to crop failures. almost half the population lives below the poverty line. the desolate political and economic situation sparked protest in 2019 o mar alba, she or was ousted after 30 years of authoritarian rule, shari'a law was abolished and women were briefly granted more rights. a glimpse of freedom also for journalists and creatives who were hopeful that a civilian government and reforms might be established. but this phase of democratization didn't last for long. a military coup took place in 2021. since then, protests for freedom and human rights have taken place nearly every day. the republic of south sudan is the world's youngest sovereign states. it achieved

independence from sudan in 2011 after years of struggle. 99 percent of the population supported independence in a referendum, but their joy was short lived. the country is divided due to numerous ethnic conflicts. millions are seeking refuge internally and outside of south sudan . ah, disastrous flooding. had led to crop failures. more and more people are becoming dependent on food aid. south sudan is one of the world's poorest countries. it lacks state institutions, especially in the medical and educational sectors. the government has repeatedly been accused of human rights violations, censorship and corruption. today it's widely regarded as a failed state. now some 4000000 people

fled the civil war in south sudan, approximately one will 1000000 of them actually found refuge in neighboring uganda and that is of course, the home of our next distinguished guest. they call him the ghetto president. robert ta glenmarie sent him with better known as the musician bobby whine. born in 1982, his lyrics about freedom and self determination have made him the voice of uganda youth. almost 80 percent of the population is under 30. in 2017 bobby wine became involved in politics. he opposed president you very much 70 and his government who arrest torture or make their political opponents disappear. bobby wine himself was brutally attacked multiple times and arrested. nevertheless, he ran for president in 2021. his campaign burdened by coven 19 rules was

targeted with arrests attacks and violence. despite accusations of election rigging, you very move 70 who has ruled the country for over 35 years, one the election yet again. a but bobby wine won't give up. he continues to be politically engaged and uses his music to fight against social injustices, corruption and abuse of power. done a good thing to bobby whine, the nigerian african pioneer and active estrella, cootie one said music is the weapon of the future. and yet, you decided at some point in 2017, that music wasn't quite enough. what was the tipping point that made you decide to go into politics? after bad experience? about 10 or 15 years ago, i decided that my music was no longer going to be entertainment. but edutainment

because my chest that he thought benefited me, it's hard to benefit those with whom i shared that blight. they get people where come from. so i got involved in politics because i had been talking about that you so so for so long and i thought it was about time to act about them and also lead by example, protest of any kind, obviously very dangerous work. in uganda, you suffered incredible violence in your presidential campaign. lots of intimidation politics. you replaced under house arrest after the election. what is your situation now and the situation for artists like yourself? the situation continues to be terrible. uganda continues to be and that the take military group of general jo, it was $77.00 our who took power when i was only 4. yes. and now i'm 40 and there's no sign that there will be change. or we don't only one change for the 2nd week, but want to return power to the people. that's why they call us their people power

movement and receive people. power is our power will want to situation. in uganda, i could tease in already developed countries where lead as a sovereignty of the people and the people and the 2 monsters where lead us fear to do things that will press the people because the people will keep them out. so that is their whole again, our next guest uses visual language to transform ideas of identity of african women. i'm j h o n d a somebody. and we can possibly take a little look at her work here is based in the netherlands. and currently showing at the venice be anomaly in the camera union pavilion. she's particularly known for her black and white work. your work has been exhibited all over the world. it's recently even been included in the permanent collection of the mama in new york. so congratulations on vance. i'm just interested because you have

very much a pan african focus as opposed to a focus on your own particular culture. is that deliberate? jest soon as soon as he can new of course, because i'm african o'clock, but also because i believe that for me, the fact of having left very early the distance brought me even closer to my continent to mother i. and that made it well. photography allowed me to reconnect with africa, who, while ela fulton asked him up there me off as a telegraphy also allowed me to reconnect with myself for the last, maybe not as a 100 percent african. but as a woman of the world who lives awesome. you know, i don't like to say between 2 worlds, but really rather with one foot in africa, one foot in the west, my mom and he on their feet and piano to see them. you're having a particularly interesting year this year the be and i live in venice is a 1st for a sub saharan car. ah,

yes. and your thoughts on the african present in venice allergy in that is in these say so the venice be an allay money. imagine that it's one of the biggest art events. it's been going on since $1895.00 on now we're at the 59th edition, and this is the very 1st time that cameron takes part with its own pavilion form. so it's historic that you story. the story her and i think as bobby was saying earlier, it's not so much about me as an artist, but it's one country, it's one continent and other artist se, se, arkansas said thought plaza caesar is, dorothea said don't. and that allows others to dream of here. and we hope that with this kind of participation in this edition of, you know, as you can see that out of 54 countries, only 8 african countries are participating. only yes, we can hear you buffy me, but it doesn't matter what i think it gives dreams. so it allows people to believe

man, the yellow, thin, the left ear. moreover, the seam of the camera, loony and pavilion. the time of came mirrors is very significant because it means that everything is possible and that applicable count from now on its own may, are comfy. africa counts sir. most definitely there. possibly even a little bit behind the times as you're indicating bobby back over to you. because uganda is also making its debut in venice this year. i'm sure governments to a certain degree are finally realizing what an important platform that can be your thoughts on, on the role of arts and artists for social change. i prefer the mirrors of severity, the other reflections of what's happening so sad to both, ah, vocally and visually. so we are this fox people of society. but in the same way we can be the chief me through present us of the fair to. i'm glad you mentioned that recently,

governments are noticing the power of art and particularly in uganda is a very big budget that is put aside to compromise artes and have them meet, represent the voices of society. and you can blame that to the rise of artists like myself. i am now these 3 are, that may be sooner or later, another artist is gonna pop up and do this, him or even more. so the power of art has been realised. stella, your thoughts aft is soft power and it is flowing on me slowly and it's making change all the time. and that's why they are have that feel from their culture and from there are because it's change minds of people. it's read awareness. an aware lee that she been our dictate that she don't like people to make bad grades up of their of that a when a song may be to resist,

then we do have another special guest in the audience at who is no stranger to our global media. forum and i'd like to go over and see him now big and gets his thoughts. i'd like you to give a warm round of applause and welcome to i can go to acting v whatever. i forgot best known photographer born in od with nigerian rule, a self professed wandering ambassador between cultures and here he is next to me akimbo day. it's so nice to see you again. thank you for joining us here in von. you exhibit all over the world, your works travel widely, but so do you yourself, you teach you to rate widely. what are the dreams and aspirations of young artists that you encounter around the world in your classes? what, how and how do you try to inspire them they want to achieve? and we, we, there are the mentors, the teachers, the facilitators, we really try to encourage them. um it's, it's, it's for many of a very tougher,

especially as a creative person, a young person. you, i mean, you earn very little, but we really encourage them. lots of the people that you're talking about. for instance, if you've got some, some people in your mind are they, are they hoping to make it at home, most human being steer where they are born as or, or their v journey in their car on their continents. and this is better than much the case um and um she will be in the lake plants and so we have roots so. so and the router very much a where you were born or where you go up. so we grow up and then up again and now is much, much easier, especially the digital age or social media slot. so you can really do your research works of survey important to be bay grounded and then up you grow your so often in places like by macro, lag was air cigale sch, can you tell me, do you see positive development there in terms of the actual yes, i do infrastructure and support for all it's on location. um i do see um for the 2

things to to, to encourage a younger artists in some countries is much less. yeah. other countries is more we're talking. yeah. that a huge continent. yeah. we've had this before, so um i was just last year in november in compiler, in bobby wayne's. oh, oh, oh town. and they, you notice that the encouragement is not very, very strong. especially for those who really want to be creative and a critical of what is happening on the ground. exactly. but um it's, it's, it's growing, is it cost of growing or is it pushed on poor all the time and trying to yeah, to move forward and upwards as well. one thing i must say is the music scene is very, very dynamic and vital all over the continent. so well, w really very well done. thank you very much for the insights i can, i can and a nice bottling line. hello, living in exile here in germany, i know that your activism is even more urgent. so before we actually just get your

opinion on that and how social media might be helping you, let's have a quick look at what you're doing. still, gaetano started writing in elementary school. she writes about war fleeing being displaced, but also about hope and great expectations for her home. stella has been fighting for freedom and democracy in sudan and south sudan for many years. ah, with other like minded people that she founded initiatives to support the lives of displaced persons and victims of violence with food donations but also with the book donations. when she fled car to men early 2020, to stella herself. donated around $700.00 books. the sudanese capital was no longer safe. she had been threatened and arrested multiple times through the writers and exiled scholarship program by the writers association pen. she has been living in

common, a little town in north rhine westphalia, since march. but her children are still with her ex husband in sudan. she hopes that she can sing be reunited with her 3 boys in germany. i think every mother here in the audience is feeling with you right now. see how tough iteration for you in excel as a mother, but also as an artist, to who has this ever intensifying inner call to change things? i you mandate i and make my children and also already that i'm a mother in risk. so any time, any, think what happened to me so yourself? boston depend on yourself. and that met me is strong and met them also is strong. so now we am yes, going in very tough situation. they've and encouraged you like to get out why and

they encouraged me mom, dont think about us to be we'll be okay. so you can go and be said somewhere. and also what i'm really lost now it's my where we speak or, and that ground a was an active, this being that people on the ground and helping people have that initiative. so because i'm thinking that we supposed to break this chain somewhere to help bobby, to become that president we are dreaming about in africa. we supposed to where we had the generation that can help bobby some day dreaming about countries. it's not enough. we have to work and we have to build our self. that is then we can build our countries. bobby wian. i know that your family has wished you would do it a number of times, but never any thoughts of leaving uganda. yes and no,

yes. and no, yes, because it's the best way to guarantee that house their life. but no, because it would be of the trail. you trail my sales people in your family, my people and it would not make practical sense at the end of the day. because the tyrants, that rule of some countries in africa are empowered with national budgets. they can pick you from any part of the world and kill you on that. very many stories of this im so other than making it hard for my people, their brother kill me from all my de one. make it expensive for my family to carry my buddy from the river and take him back home. thus, vendors when born and swam combined at the end of the day finding a way to let people dream in their own country. what has your conclusion been? we young people of africa, we are tired of all of these old narratives about africa. we know what we said,

there's no need to keep running away from the continent. we want to stay in the continent and fight if it's not easy. but we know that we can again, the magic of the people we just went to awaken the magic of the people and get this been done. although perhaps you could give your feedback or your response to, to what you get. and bobby have just said, said present 1st. yes, it's very interesting because we are all fighting for the development of our continent for change. whether we are here or there is them for the most important thing is to do it and above all, to do it together. on some bobby one, you've got a final, a final message before we wrap up it as do our at not only for ourselves, but for others. the best way to lead forever is believe through others. and as atlas, we can do that. let's do it and will be happier. right. thanks so much for joining us. we'll see you next time. and the dog

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