this is dede aline from the land. there's a lot more news on our website, d, w dot com. ah, ah, i just had the mirrors of society. we are the reflections of what's happening so that if there's no need to keep running away from the continent, we want to stay in the continent and fight my mother in risk. so any time, any think what happened to me, we are finding a way to get this done. now you and i met with night on that one. no,

i don't want to, you know, to leave a really want live content anyway. a you why indiana with a

i got a with hunger pointing to leave them out with. 6 me one hello and welcome from dw is global media forum in bond. my name is karen homestead, as foundations are being shaken all over the globe. d w culture has chosen to look to sub saharan africa where the creative scene is positively booming and attracting, increasing international attention. but this incredible wealth of artistry is too often under cut by a lack of funding, lack of infrastructure, conflict,

or even oppressive political regions. which means that artists have some very tough decisions to make, to stay or to go. to what extent can creative industries foster change and development in their home countries and how can they have maximum impact on we've gathered a group of creatives from africa and the african diaspora to discuss these questions. and these are my guests. roberts, shaggy lannie, sent tom mo, better known by his stage named bobby whine. as we just heard, is singer musician, activist and politician from uganda, leader of the national, unique unity platform party, former opposition and p and presidential candidate. according to his twitter bio, he's just one ghetto child who has something to say through music and he says that politics is simply too serious a business to leave it to the politicians. welcome bobby, and thank you for being with us.

delegated o is a writer opinion columnist and a pharmacist from south sudan. she's known for her short stories and her novel eddowes soul, was, was the 1st south sudanese story, actually to win. the english pen writers translates award in march, she fled sudan to germany with the help of the german pen. and she says that art is a living thing. it can't grow in dark rooms and needs space to be freely expressed, accepted, and supported. thank you. being on my left is also, if you, in the a, somebody, she's a photographer from cameroon, who lives and works in amsterdam with over 200 exhibitions in more than 100 countries. she's one of the most accomplished african photographers of her generation, best known for her work in black and white, and for her strong focus on african women. she africa is her greatest inspiration. and as she believes,

a continent with matchless opportunities and where everything is possible. welcome all day and last, but not least, over here on my ride, eke enable a is an award winning director and cultural entrepreneur from lagos in nigeria. he's now considered one of the champions of the emerging emerging new african cinema, and normally would veteran. but his documentary, no, you turn just about a special mention award at the the belly nala berlin's international film festival in, in early this year. and he says that there is a relationship between migration and the types of films that we've promoted in the past. we look forward to your insights, enable, have a warm welcome the warm welcome to all of my panelists on to our studio audience. and thanks for arousing starts, bobby. but over to you, eager, i'd like to start with you because over 20 years ago you set out to leave nigeria

to make your fortune in europe. but you ended up aborting the journey. so just tell us, what was it that made you decide to leave and what, why did you change your mind? it was, i would just say in very simple words, he was economic reasons. i had just finished my apprenticeship in which i served my master for 7 years. and normally after you finish your apprenticeship, you're supposed to be given seed money so that you can start your own business. and sometimes it doesn't work out like that. and i just happened to be one of those ones that didn't work out. and i was just about to turn 20 and had nothing. and the reason why i even started into the apprenticeship was so that i can make something out of myself. so i can help my mother and my siblings because i lost my dad when i was to. and so at the time i was literally confused. i didn't know what to do. and

then i heard that it was possible to travel to europe by route. and with little or no money, you know, it's so along a perilous journey. exactly. so i thought it was something that was worth it and you and i said, oh, you got stopped midway. yes, so we got to buy marco and so on. sat down with me and my friends and told us that he was quite a very dangerous journey and that a lot of terrible things were happening. you know, at the deserts which we were about to set out. and i realized that no, i know i wanted to make money and all that, but i had to be alleged to be able to so i was like, no, this is that was my life. so i stuff that, that experience inspired your very 1st documentary film. i already mentioned the title, no, you turned it investigates why young africans are compelled to risk their lives to make this journey. and it's a very personal film that really manifests our central question to stay or to go.

ah, 26 years ago. i came to this mile to bows park in bustling there goes along with my friends. our goal was to close this trip of gibraltar and make our fortunes in europe in no, you turn, he came may, boy, we traces his own path to europe. on his journey, he meets people who just as he once did, are trying to leave africa. but get stranded in different countries along the way. they survive by working on jobs and restaurants, or st. vendors frowned with a film about hope, disappointment, and be enduring. dream of europe became a boy, has also made feature films and offers his expertise to aspiring young directors. he's also part of a support network for african filmmakers. i know you

turn his 1st documentary deals with an issue that still very relevant to day one to so many young nigerians embark on such a perilous journey. ah, ah, what did you learn about young people's motivations to day to go and make and take on that jenny? well sadly 27 years after it's still the same motivations, ma'am, is to basically about economics. and it's to be as clear about people and seeking for self actualization. it's about looking for a place under the sun where you can actually the dream. and it's the sad that young people in africa, especially west africa,

do not feel that there's enough space for them to dream in their home countries. and so that's what i found in the film, and it's really very sad. i want to pick up that quote that i mentioned from you at the beginning where you talk about the relationship between migration and the film's type of films that have been promoted in the past. and what role has film played in idealizing and nourishing this? this dream of, of going to europe. well, so speak about natalie wooten and niger from industry. and i would say that the sad part of it and how we relate to this conversation is that we, we've promoted the idea that you just have to have a lot of money to, to be recognized as a human being in it. so young people growing up and, you know, growing up into these types of narratives, feel a lot of pressure, you know, to, to make money to make a lot of money. and sometimes people don't really know exactly why they need to

make all this money. you know, so i was having a conversation with someone the other day and i asked her, i said, how much do you really need as a human being to leave, you know, and it became very clear that not a lot of money actually. you know, so yeah, the type of films that was promoted in the past has created all of this precious conclusions that have led you to, to, to make quite a change of tack. in your work with this new documentary, gender also plays a huge role in the migration narrative and, and there's a number of quite surprising scenes in your shell. certainly inspired by that. i'm as a male director, i'm just wondering how tricky was it for you to actually you're so close to all of your protagonist. how tricky was it for you to actually get these young women to open up and share their stories? i think that i've had a very great relationship with women because i was raised by my mother mother. yeah . my father passed when i was to still use my mother. and because i had sisters and

growing up and coming up in the industry, worked with a lot of, i'm female producers and who actually gave me a chance in the industry was a woman that gave me a chance set out to, to a jumble. you know, see, she gave me my 1st chance, you know, so i've always had that, you know, that ease to work with women. and maybe because i think about gender by just, you know, i think about the fact that we are all humans. and if anybody is competent enough to vibe at the same level, we, we work on women, certainly suffering in very particular ways. and, and of course, a more difficult trade, quite often on, on these journeys. and we're going to go over to you still an gaetano, because of course, the plight of women in war torn countries is really a major theme in your work. a major theme in your life, you recently came to germany. tell us why did you have to fleece with them?

oh yeah, and thank you for no. let me be here with others. thank you. yeah. yes sir. us people know sedan and 2011. it's like a split the 2 countries. and i went to the nice and then i become a cell. so then is so. 2 if fuel late expend most of your life that to work for your country as a whole, and they're like sharing of, of how you can make that change and make that countries that you are, you are dreaming about or your life. then finally to split to, to so you're have this suddenly also believe me to do to, to so that's why i couldn't find myself in files or in north a still want to be as a sudanese so that makes my life really very, very difficult to be here or there and there,

because i was against this idea of we in africa, we supposed to unite not to is lit again, 2 pieces of of come to this. yes, we are respect there. yeah. there that destiny. they need to be a whole country, but we supposed to think about africa and death, how it can make us very strong if we are you would night by some ways and that, that was my idea. and i think people not accepted that in to sit down. you were under pressure, so yeah, i was in the bridge a here i'm there and a mom. i like i couldn't express myself. well, am i supposed to keep silence for a long time? you're trying to communicate a message about africa. let's learn a little bit more about africa. so sudan is africa's newest state. its independence in 2011. was the culmination of decades of struggle followed by years of civil war

. so to understand this very complex situation, political situation that stella gaetano has just described a there with its neighbor, with south sudan with its neighbor to the north sudan. let's have a quick look at this for the republic of the sudan as africa's 3rd largest country . it's capital is cartoon since independence in 1956, the country has mostly been under military rule due to armed conflicts between the government and rebels, sectarian and ethnic violence. many millions have fled. recurring droughts lead to crop failures. almost half the population lives below the poverty line. the desolate political and economic situation sparked protest in 2019 o mar alba, she or was ousted after 30 years of authoritarian rule. shari'a law was abolished

and women were briefly granted more rights. a glimpse of freedom also for journalists and creatives who were hopeful that a civilian government and reforms might be established. but this phase of democratization didn't last for long. a military coup took place in 21. since then, protests for freedom and human rights have taken place nearly every day. the republic of south sudan is the world's youngest sovereign state. it achieved independence from sudan in 2011 after years of struggle. 99 percent of the population supported independence in a referendum, but their joy was short lived. the country is divided to you to numerous ethnic conflicts. millions are seeking refuge internally and outside of south sudan . ah, disastrous flooding said lead to crop failures. more and more people are becoming

dependent on food aid. south sudan is one of the world's poorest countries. it lacks state institutions, especially in the medical and educational sectors. the government has repeatedly been accused of human rights violations, censorship and corruption. today it's widely regarded as a failed state. you're living between 2 cultures, really, it's very, very deescalate, as you've described, the, the north obviously speaks arabic. you right in arabic, yet to self is english speaking. just tell us how that is for you to. yeah, because i am a long time away. our war is about their political issues, about culture, issues and about identity and about of the stuff. and our i'm fortunate the, our political like use this huge diversity in africa. they use it to make conflict

between us to isolate us as a people from each other. so sometimes you are not going to be proud back to are from the segan or that region. and when you get in, in between 2 culture lake, you are africa. but you rest up in totally r a reason, or is that the north side of sudan, because the arabic is their official language. so you rip up there, so that will be your language to bed. some vast people you that like you. i don't like you and now accepting the culture of the an a me or something like that. so they don't want you to be like you are now your king using the language of any me so that way and make it as up for us as a divisive force. thank you for that. for though those insights now some 4000000 people fled the civil war in south sudan, approximately one will 1000000 of them actually found refuge in neighboring uganda

. and that is of course, the home of our next distinguished guest. they call him the ghetto president. robert ta glenmarie sent him with better known as the musician bobby whine. born in 1982, his lyrics about freedom and self determination have made him the voice of uganda as youth. almost 80 percent of the population is under 30. in 2017 bobby wine became involved in politics. he opposed to president you very much 70 and his government who arrest torture or make their political opponents disappear. bobby wine himself was brutally attacked multiple times and arrested. nevertheless, he ran for president in 2021. his campaign burdened by coven 19 rules,

was targeted with arrests attacks and violence. despite accusations of election rigging you very much 70 who has ruled the country for over 35 years, won the election yet again. a but bobby wine won't give up he continues to be politically engaged and uses his music to fight against social injustices, corruption and abuse of power. i'm a good day, the way daily with your weight, your tonight the yet lately? yeah. one, my social injustice, corruption, and abuse of power, bobby wine, the nigerian african pioneer, inactive estrella, cootie one said music is the weapon of the future. and yet you decided at some point in 2017 that music wasn't quite enough. what was the tipping point that made

you decide to go into politics? thank you very much. i'm very glad you mentioned taylor county. and i hope for his spirit. can you go from there now? i'm sorry. say that being said, when i was only a baby, i'm leadership, we get inspiration from different parts of the world. what i'm doing has been done and followed by people, i feel awkward the i'm the rest. indeed, music is no just for entertainment. as a matter of fact, after bad experience, about 10 or 15 years ago, i decided that my music was no longer going to be entertainment by edutainment because my chest that he had benefited me, it had to benefit those with whom i share the plate. they get to people where come from. so i got involved in the politics because i had been talking about the issue, so for so long. and i thought it was about time to act about them. and to also lead by example. that's wonderful edutainment as you call it. so songs with

a political message, how do you actually combine those 2 roles, pop star and politician where it is? the sim are 1st and foremost, i don't want to define politics or the white politician as the usual cliche. because politics, these everyday life politics is the price to buy bread surprised by sugar. it determines whether you're free or not, in, you're going to actually determines whether you need or you don't need. so for a long time, our people had been disconnected from the way, the way i got my lucy until the day when i was at the hate of my musical success, i was just walking out of the club and got beat up by the usual practice. because i was showing of as if i did not know the contra had or not. so i thought that i should move into where the policies i made for very long time, the politicians were making policies that were benefiting themselves and are

pressing. they get to people and for a long time we were thinking about these issues. but it was just common, seeming. i feel i say that since the parliament had received, it refused to come to they get to, they get to had to go to the parliament. and that's the move that i to, to go into parliament to get to get that formal platform to say the things that i've been seeing in my music, but also by others to do the same. ok. protests of any kind. obviously very dangerous work in uganda. you suffered incredible violence in your, in the lead up to your, in your presidential campaign. lots of intimidation politics. you replaced under house arrest after the election. what is your situation now and the situation for artists like yourself? i hope you mean what is our situation, not my situation. so while i have the opportunity to be on fetch international

platforms, while, while i have these attention out, want to say that many of you governance with home face, this terrible situation don't have the opportunity. so it's about us, the situation continues to be terrible. uganda continues to be under the military group of general yo him of $77.00 who took paula when i was only 4. yes. and now i am 40 and there is no sign that there will be change. we don't only one change for the sake of it, but want to return power to the people that way. the callers, the people power movement and receive people. power is our power. want if the 2 h, as in, you're going to get these, you know, developed countries where lead as a 7 of the people and the people at the to month does. we need us to do things that, you know, press the people because the people will keep them out. so that were leaders, fear, even an identity symbol like your read bray, which has actually been banned in uganda as well. this read barry

like the word freedom like my name, like my face has been banned. not on any know people. but you know, because general must have in nissan. you don't mind that, you know, but we always one to focus note on our apply note on our weakness is not on the bus situation that we're going through. but on the light that we see, i head of the tunnel will focus on what we want to achieve. because we know webinar, we are many, is massive enlightenment. so why are they read buried his band, while the wide freedom is banned? why or even any kind of protest his band. we know that no dictator has evolved, you know, defeated the people we know that it has always been the rise. i'm the for this never the rise and rise of 2nd sight, addicted, i know is the rise and fall. now that we saw the rise,

we are walking day and night for the for fall, or maybe that i should thank you very much for those words, bobby wine, our next guest uses visual language to transform ideas of identity of african women. i'm j h o n d a somebody and we can possibly take a little look at her work here is based in the netherlands and currently showing at the venice the anomaly in the camera union pavilion. beautiful images here. she's particularly known for her black and white work african and european themes, mixed also. you left cameroon at the age of 10. when was the please, nichols, jones, that you boy, unless you have this address, our last level is yukon simba of hope is the concerns require a tier. so the real realization i think was when i realized that in the dutch

landscape, in which i was evolving, i didn't find myself in the mohawk clipper. sure, no mohawk on, as i didn't recognize myself in the images that were around me while i t, t or, or, and i decided to make my own images found the quote was him. and i say make because i making a difference between taking pictures and making pictures found his emotional for me . photography is a can it's a construction, it's a composition weller for you. yes, that's why the composition is very important here. and at the same time, as i made this choice. so after having studied at the dodge school of photography for the last year, and i decided to put the woman at the heart of my work very early on the black woman. oh, the black woman, carvajal law firm noir. huh? i found one for one. why did i do this earlier? because i wanted to break with all the stereotypes that exist at around that bad representation. not only of africa,

but also of the african woman ears of layer more faith, maria, and i wanted to show that i was re appropriating this black female body and showing that it was a body like any other body, a body that spoke on that questioned that denounced that spoke of fulfillment of injury of fragility, but also above all of strength, more of strength and of resilience similar to the of for the, the foster interview. and that's how i started photography with nancy. don't gazande co mostella for the love seat. your work has been exhibited all over the world. it's recently even been included in the permanent collection of the mama in new york. so congratulations on that. i'm. i'm just interested because you have very much a pan african focus as opposed to a focus on your own particular culture. is that deliberate? yes sir. marcy of horse because.