tv Close up Deutsche Welle July 5, 2022 2:30pm-3:01pm CEST
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oh, become a criminal. ah franklin, i already know whose welcome to take told me about hackers and paralyzed me to your societies computers than elsewhere. you and governments that go crazy for your data. we explain how these technologies work, how they can go in for green, but how they can also go terribly. watch it now on youtube. beneath the supporting pillars of the oven highway and bonus are, is the ruins of
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a secret prison remain largely concealed. it dates back to the 19 seventies and the days of argentina's military dictatorship. ah. only a few broken wools of isabel here in what was once the basement of a police station, henchmen for the dictatorship, tortured and killed leftist opponents of the regime. i'm witness to an unusual meeting between 2 women. one, anna maria cutty. yaga was tortured under the regime and is plagued by traumatic memories. the other analia clinic is the daughter of anna marie, has torturer and wants to know everything about her father's crimes. he said here, there was a room with a bag. i laid there to sometimes and you were pregnant. graham, but um, yes, this area served as
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a sick room when they hurt us too badly. we often had eye infection. this as we always have to wear blindfold them, they also treated torture and gum shortly as here. another of my father's victims denise said she was brutally tortured and that my father told her. you have broken ribs, but we won't bandage your wound, so you won't hang yourself with the bandage. most of the prisoners were murdered. anna maria cut a yaga survived when the sun, when the tortures went out and said to each other pe you carry on. and i have to collect my daughter from school. when they talked about their family, it sounded creepy. the fact that they could go out of this under world of horror and live a normal family life that they could look their wives, daughters, and sons, and the i, i always thought that was strange symptom, assemble at this year, miss e and aliya. and when anna leah learned from court testimony,
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what her father did during the dictatorship period face went up. she asked herself a similar question. when it said, how could he embraced me with the same hands that he was using to torture others? i would as say, it said that it now walk along bumping my breaking of all ties with my father has nothing to do with anger, rejection or contempt for him. as a father. i want to keep my former feelings towards him as a father because he is my dad and because he put get it working in okay. and and me because i understand it a part of myself is linked to him. if there
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he can. i think in comparison, which leaves me with many questions, that how could my father maintain his double life within the family circle? he always wanted to protect us, his daughters. that's why the fact that my father was perpetrating genocide is particularly frightening. a person in whom i used to find love and affection suddenly becomes very scary. and aaliyah's father was known to his victims as dr. k . in 2010, he was sentenced to life in prison for torturing and murdering nearly 300 people. on a li, a process as her trauma, through writing my math. so my, i'm a mother, a teacher, a psychologist, i'm his daughter, and we no longer speak to each other. i shouldn't have asked questions and yeah, i could do that. i should have remained silent and not thinking, not feeling, not knowing, simply obeying. but i'm not capable of that. i'm not worthy of him. it seems as if i'm not a daughter worthy of a perpetrator of genocide, neither by that no, neither. not
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the true psychologist and teacher is now 42 years old. she teaches at 2 schools and is also studying law on the side. she herself had a strict upbringing. her father was a police commissioner and believed in discipline. and aliyah invites me into her home. she likes to have guests in her childhood, those strangers weren't welcome. her father always gave the impression that the outside world was a threat to their sheltered home life. but analia is now more open minded and has broken out of the construct of lies surrounding her supposedly exemplary catholic family. there is, was there a particular moment that led to the break with your father shall go get dinner, go out one night. the turning point was definitely the announcement of his trial in
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the newspaper. we should ann on the felon all day after a lengthy investigation. my father was to be brought to trial. he, on each oilcan, i read his court file and went to him with it, saying, mano, explain this to me. another one becometh her father said he acted out of obedience and love for his country. then he withdrew into silence in court. he refused to testify. slowly aim complete, thus is laudable, emilio clinic, so wherever age 50 sophia, marital status that are married. so job your training or for matthew on call me retired police commissioner, if you've heard that. ah, argentina stands out as a country that has mostly worked hard to prosecute the states violent crimes of the past. the wave of arrests and trials began slowly and did not get into full swing until 20 years after the end of the dictatorship. after president
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nestor kitchener took office in 2003 at that time i reported from bowen as iris as an onlooker. i finally, someone has the courage to do what needs to be done. he's not afraid of the united states. the perpetrators will pay for their crime, escaped from a debt under freeman. i have come at 2005 mark the end of impunity. the parliament and senate voted to repeal an amnesty law. the mothers of plaza demira, celebrated the women. his children and grandchildren had disappeared under the military regime had demanded their cases be investigated. they protests with a driving force that prompted argentina to start dealing with its past. the regime of terror largely operated in secret, and the late 19 seventies. they were more than $600.00 cova detention centers were
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thousands, were tortured and murdered. the perpetrators try to cover over the traces and rewrite history. to this day they deny that some 30000 people disappeared. but the testimony of the survivors speaks volumes. now that they tied me naked to a metal table, they tortured me with electric shock. allison enough, they danced, eyes, nose and ears was gasoline. they burst my ear drum with them. and after treating the wounds they dragged me back to the torture chamber. a fellow who then we'll be with you if we think come in anna maria carry jaga. who was taught it by edward kelley, nick provided vital testimony in an early trial right off to the end of the
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dictatorship. the daughter of her till mental was in her mid twenties when she began to distance herself from her father to day analia cali neck can no longer stand lies. lisa. she has told her 2 sons about their grandfather's crimes. in her husband, luis is in full agreement. ah, but in her own family, she is considered a traitor. her father and 2 of his sisters have launched a lawsuit against analia to stop her from claiming her inheritance position at the corner of the go, it will not the good. yes, she might have been tough enough. amelia said when and now the joint lawsuits by her sisters. so it's absolutely inexplicable, hinted regarding what's bad is bad them no matter what your views might be. well,
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they have to torture and kill a human being as something evil. i live to the dictatorship and levers. it shows you why we will elaborate what official, these cowardly types had, and still have the backing of their corporations yellow police to shield my father in law. still gets his salary today, but she still enjoys a lot of privileges that he should not have. she, she good thing and neither he nor any of them are given a new meaning. what alexio's? oh, i analia collects and analyzes letters and documents to gain more clarity about what actually happened. unlike most descendants of the regime abuses her thirst for information is insatiable. the widow an ally as mother found her attitude unforgivable. fema
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wise, you write that your mother reproach to you because of how well your father had taken care of the family. a soccer dice. i'm at, i'm on the bottom. she wrote in an email until after all your father has done for us to get him going to fight the now we have let even nothing but a few that of the man with his good salary. he paid for the best schooling for you . no. and for the police sports club, matador melissa. and she listed all the benefits we enjoyed through our father, me, but by your lovely. see all the other, but it didn't go. luca said they go to super lagossi. does i once asked him? did it never occurred to you that you were hurting people? whichever's he answered. yes, i thought about that very often of like one of the company that i, disgusted with the military clergyman and the clergy told us, keep it up. the hope you are fighting the anti christ. what this is done, lou. gender one breland degree, which i,
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it's joyce look guilty boatley that said that gave him a reason to continue committees and all good conscience as he told me. i love negotiable, cynthia lee. so it's perverse. totally sick. them for me. they film really sunny. are you having doubts dawning one? 0 ye sh. are it on us? no, with all we're all affected. and this is not over yet. and we know what if he's really worried about that? good to go. so he won't be relieved. figured, melissa, that's what juncture afaik has told me. it was an transfer to house arrest is only possible if he's dying. oh, yes. dana that i pick us is a very high profile judge in argentina. his extensive efforts to investigate and gather evidence of crimes committed under the dictatorship,
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has led to dozens of convictions on the lee as father was one of them now and aliya has returned to danielle. it affects us to seek advice. nowhere. oh, i know what we she trusts the man who put her father behind boss. well, oh, don't buy it's my great pleasure to present tea with my life story. it's hockey thanks to you that this book has come about with how late it is. look what that he's going down. he said man, a settlement right now. i have a problem with my sisters that they're insisting that any time now he could be allowed out for limited periods. and that when he turned 70, he'll get transferred to house arrest for them as of yet. no, no, he won't get that. not as a rule very lucky only if he is terminally ill or hasn't illness that cannot be treated in a hospital prison. in that case,
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imprisonment would be considered cruel punishment, and as such, unconstitutional, that will be able to but otherwise he won't be allowed out. oh no, but an india is fighting to ensure that none of those who committed crimes under the dictatorship or an out early release on may 10th 2017. she stood shoulder to shoulder with victims of the regime and hundreds of thousands of attend tenens to protest the court ruling that could have led to shore to prison terms for men like her father. starting that day and aliya began meeting the daughters of other regime criminals. a month later, they appeared together for the 1st time at a feminist march. they questioned the rigid patriarchy in their own families. the new collective which was predominantly female, called itself disobedient stories, daughters and sons of genocide, perpetrators for truth memory and justice. liliana
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for you is a documentary filmmaker and has been part of the group from the start. her father, who was the head of an army intelligence division, died in house arrest. pablo vieira is one of the 1st men in the group. his father was an army doctor. ah, ah. the owner's wife unit is from germany. they met while out tango dancing, music and the group now numbers more than
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a 100 people. all relatives of former regime criminals most are not willing to talk to the press o one ma'am, we're really oh yeah. they discussed their experiences and write about their struggles that they've already published a book together. there are times it feels a bit like group therapy, but they're also activists fighting for justice or wife to live well did, but let me introduce you to lorna. she is also part of the disobedient stories collective and was one of the 1st to join us is our 5th war. jubal romano. though i was plagued by questions of what my father did and whether he was a murderer. i kept suppressing all these emotions inside me,
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but when it emerged that their sentences could get reduced, i knew i had to take action. but if this were allowed to happen again, they could kill us all the need to act and the experience of going public for the 1st time brought us together. then everything started to gather momentum by itself, like an avalanche that we began to speak out and say everything necessary. yeah, lady a little bit. i think of his and his audio. yes sir. yes. one is right. and we fight for human rights and to ensure that these crimes aren't forgotten. josma normally for guns healey, la maria knowle made. that is how more to list with your stories, interest me very much. i want to hear them because my thoughts, feelings, and powers of imagination on sufficient to understand what it must be like to face the murderer. who's your father? one, the shuttle will forgive me for when i came face to face with my father after discovering it was terrible. the very shocking he said, what besides, i was afraid. he was always violent merely. but once i told him, you know,
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if i had lived under the dictatorship for a few more years, i would have been forcibly disappeared and murdered by the state to resume as a lead. thus i saw the because i am a leftist, i'm a rebel, a feminist, you and a lesbian. he couldn't deny it. he knew i was right, we're glad. i mean, when we might, we vote. but when we book, i speak very little with my mother. i haven't spoken to my father since 2013. not a lot when he admitted to me that he took part in the death flights and in the abduction of regime opponents. that was our last conversation. i followed the my wickedness india, china, and in 2018. when he threatened me and my family, i told him everything to his face, but that was no longer a conversation differently. it was my testimony in a court trial. i live on it up just to let it go out on the go. the theater, who is young and a girl without love cases. what exactly does your father did buy it,
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but the people in la jolla that i'm wanted to pick it up on the to we on and he was involved in the death flights on this up. what is he? the victims were thrown alive into the sea or the river fell on us on expedius. he injected them with strong sedatives beforehand to keep them still during the flight sympathetic to hear the more the listeners a hood. when can, how come your father is still free after committing such crimes forgetful even because my testimony is not valid for his conviction. in argentina, you are not allowed to testify against your own parents. i launch legal action saying a genocide killer was on the loose, but he was never convicted or they don't know gus in oh, beautiful moment. ah, the daughters and sons one to be able to testify against their parents to help get them convicted. they've requested that parliament amend the penal code so the testimony against family members would be accepted. it's a complicated process and congress would have to agree untold. the chances of
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getting the law changed. i'm not good at the moment. bringing pablo's father to justice along with others. the way involved in the death flights will be difficult . in december 1977, 3 women were thrown into the rio de la plata. they were found is of the protest movement mothers of the plaza de mile. one of them was the mother of anna maria, carry aga together with other activists. her mother had been kidnapped from the santa cruz church and bonus iris. most bishop supported the military dictatorship, but this parish saw to protect regime critics. these are the human rights activists, laraca. what else like with that else are galle. let's have some the girls. when these are the relatives of victims who were taken from the church to french nuns together with 3 founders of the collective of the mothers of the plus andi mile lower and america. bless her martial gwendolen. if you talk about 3 mothers who
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were searching for their missing daughters go, why do you exclude yourself from the narrative? as you were one of those daughters to see? yes, he sealants, not about me. i mean, i go to, the mothers was searching together for all those who had disappeared in the collective struggle. it was gone out of the fact that all these individual family tragedies came together. lad, in new and gaff emilia, reveal another harry, a singular m annemarie. his mother did not remain missing the river washed her body to the shore. her remains now lie in the garden of the santa cruz church. it's become a memorial right . her remains have become proven. the final solution is
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a plan for eliminating all the bodies which the dictator was proud of herself. what those infamous death flights at the very hill of william wanted. mm. i'm immediately struck by her use of the nazi term, final solution used for the dues. i've arranged to meet judge daniel affect us at the holocaust museum and born as iris. he believed that argentina's military dictatorship was inspired by naziism. his book on the history of hitler's final solution is well known in argentina jersey santa maria, carry out of the anna maria carry. aga speaks about the final solution. is what happened in argentina, comparable to that messy and kinda see where and all this is will go and go. but i live in la luca. look, you can't really compare them. but amid the logic of the final solution is present right from the start of argentina's. military dictatorship,
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even the whatever milestone in the safe and me bice, on march 24th 1976. i think the military junta decided to eliminate the leftist movement by physically annihilating all left his groups. and their supporters are many danasia. make you wait leaving us, you'll figure it. oh no. the mass shootings because the secret camps and the death flights were part of that plan. it belonged the solution. if you notice at the scene blumenthal i go with thousands of people disappeared and are still untraceable to day yong gone. our generation is now putting this final solution process in our country on trial, the and convicting the criminals is what sort of shopping i isic in a photo photo. and okay, and i'm a who run lincolnton under timothy twice in 2006. the court called the hunter's crimes genocide. so the sons and daughters of the disobedient stories grew whole they fathers,
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perpetrators of genocide. but many argue that the systematic plan of extermination wasn't purely an argentinian creation. international interests will also play the piano at a body says her father worked for military intelligence and was trained by american and french offices. his headquarters. we're located in this building in the center of glen is iris. i've got it, but in your whole strategy of state tara, during the 19 seventy's was coordinated from here. i've got all the secret service officers were trained in panama for and in the united states. put on a month for an immediate though. then french military veterans also came to provide
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training and torture and human extermination. before they gained their experience from the atrocities they had committed against civilians and the algerian wall, several frenchman came to blend. o cyrus before 9 know 70 a said guy, even before my parents got divorced, when i was just a little girl. and i remember the interactions that my father had with these frenchman, larry les, don't get any any further and see did you know what your father was doing? no savvy, except that i didn't know for sure. i suspected it, but i couldn't deal with that back there. at 1st, i wasn't able to do the research and seek out information on that. i think it would have killed me. i would have committed suicide, can release them. what do i know about this?
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and i've noticed that so many of you have a background in psychology. i see that i think what was that important for you to be able to stand up to your father's think? yeah, i love what saved me was words and being able to speak of it. that's why i love friday and that's why i will always practice psychoanalysis. i'll seek one luther and either no way is the intellectual legacy of sigmund freud more alive than in boy in his iris. freud's theory of the uncanny and people and his approach to coming to terms with the past is something anna maria carry. jaga is very familiar with. she teaches freud's theories to university students. allow my nana is down when when oh, death with it that what you are experiencing is an important
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contribution to society and associate also for society is that have so far not condemned such crime. where on the coming to terms with the past is very healthy for a person's life. love you. you're already crossing borders. are you reaching other countries? aren't you even europe? germany will burn my c face. yes, jelly was they all have soon, paraguay, uruguay. and witness who in touch with the descendants of nazis who marvel at us cosette on her. but if that's why your work is so important, more and more women and men adjoining, disobedient stories. 60 more recently, even 3rd generation relatives nicholas threw up to his grandfather, was sentenced to 25 years in prison. but no one in the family ever talks about his crimes. nicholas decided to break the silence and perceive the truth. well,
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i am pretty late here. he invoked, i believe i will adequate, i had the privilege of meeting the only survivor who testified against my grandfather in court. he, i order it's very difficult and upsetting a mock and i'm in florida. but, but this contact with her gives me the strength to continue to seem pretty sad. i said the victims always say thank you know that that's the 1st thing. they thank you for speaking publicly. excellent. i laugh because that's one of the main reasons i'm still on this path. media. mm. i seen as a disobedient stories, relatives are genocide, perpetrators for truth and justice. okay. i admit, sadly that it took me a long time to come to terms with what my father had done to me by. like what i remember the shame of my name is the fear of being known as a descendant of a killer book. you gave me only fair contempt pain. untangle you down the guilt at different levels and the subsequent silence. nokia, i don't want to love him. okay. it's too painful.
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