going on with my family is holiday destinations and drowning in plastic weiss, we, we wine at the cause of every year of the exports over $1000000.00 tons of plastic with there. another way. after all, the environment isn't recyclable. make up your own mind. d. w, made for mines ah, as the crisis in ukraine continues to intensify, so does the relentless war of wards in and around the conflict. vladimir putin shocks many by saying russia's invasion of ukraine has only just begun. one thing is for sure with have you shelling, pounding residential areas,

it's civilians who are paying the debt price. ukrainian side meanwhile says it's seeking to amass an arm, a 1000000 troops. so on to the point we asked after capturing large pods of don, boss, will putin have enough time for more a warm welcome to to the point with these guest city. liana fix is a political analyst focusing on russia in eastern europe. more it's gutman is chief reporter with the german magazine, cicero and joining us from bon is my ukranian colleague, roman gone to ranko, who works with t w's fresh and language. so thank you so much to all of you for joining us today. leanna, i'd like to start with you, we're cleaning president, followed humor. so lensky is speaking of this massive counter offensive to regain

territories in the country south. is it possible? is that even possible for ukraine to do that? well, the current obviously needs at this point, some kind of success and at the moment it is, it would be easier to achieve the successes in the south, although it is still very difficult than in the east where wash as basically throwing all its auto we on the ukrainian forces and pushing forwards meter by mito kilby type a kilometer at the same time, it's also a tactical decision to announce this this plan to prevent that. russia will focus in all troops in the east, but also to flee. some of the troops in the east and to give us the opportunity to move to the south and there to keep them forces focused in the south. and, but obviously with we got to the weapons available to the ukrainian army. we need much more western support to you quain, to make such an offensive in the south successful. we'll get to the weapons in

a minute. i'd like to get your opinion. do you think that ukraine can even do that with the current capacities that they have? i think at the moment or ukraine is not capable of free capturing hassan region, for example, because it's one question to have 1000000 people who are ready to go. and it's another question to equip them properly. i just have one example of a friend to join the army several months ago and he's mainly equipped with stuff that her friends, the, made it to him. friends bought this equipment. and of course, it's her a big operation against russians in the caps on region. we have fortified their positions over the last month. it's a difficult area to do an offensive operation. and a yes,

if you said you crane needs more than just soldiers to recapture this area. that's right. there's only one part before we ask roman about him. what the possibilities are, i'd like to listen to what the russian president vladimir putin had to say about that the war is just beginning. let's isn't it showing you my solution on after we hear that they wanted defeat us on the battlefield? what can i say to let them try? is that the idea? it's a tragedy for the ukrainian people, but it looks like that's where it's heading, non sugars, but everyone should know that we haven't even started anything in earnest yet to meet you initially. so the, we have russian president saying that the war is just beginning. i'd like to have the reaction of roman who's joining us from bon, who is the russian president addressing here of course, he's addressing ukraine. he's addressing the worst of grains main support of

fourpence, and of course he's also addressing his domestic public in russia. so i think it is indeed a point to where we can say this war is just at the beginning. so this will work very long. conflict probably years ahead of us and russia is really holding back some reserves. it is using old soviet weapons ascending troops from far away regions and to keeping all those best equipped troops from moscow or saint petersburg. so we're in the west of russia. western part of russia, they are participating in this war, but not on a large scale. so russia is preparing for a war of attrition. we're seeing this war of attrition happening. and ukraine needs much more weapons to be able to stand for a long time to be able to a try and recapture maybe some cities in the south at the moment. i think

you can or will be winning this at this moment. if it can stop the rush in advance, so stopping russians in the south stopping them in the east and on bass would be a victory for the moment for ukraine, i think, sent us to add perhaps to that at the same time. it's also strategic communication operation, as were said towards the west to convey the impression, well, your support is futile. it doesn't make any sense because we can throw as much sold isn't as much material into the war as we want. witness to some extent, of course, over blown because wash, i had some very heavy cam casualties, 24000 soldiers as estimated by, by the british side. so this is also a communication that have been a propaganda attempt to what the west, to play into war fatigue, to play into the energy crisis, into the inflation way. say some problems in western countries. do you think it's

working? the propaganda attempts to tell the wes, this will be a long war, it makes no sense for you to support to be unified with this is solidarity towards ukraine. well, as i look at the german society, for example, i have the feeling that it's working together with this inflation and energy crisis that we see in our country. because the people for the 1st time now they understand that the impact of the war is happening here. people will see over the next month, the energy prices rising really the lot. and of course, people will pose the question to their government. is it worth it? isn't that worth? maybe we need a compromise with russia. we heard these voices over the last 4 months, but they will be stronger even over the next month. and a bit at this moment, put it in ascending the sign. we haven't started yet, or we can do much more. of course i have the feeling that this can work.

yeah. before we start talking about, you just mentioned energy price. that's a really big topic, almost for another show. let's focus on the situation on the ground with many saying that the war has just started now in february, but the war has been going on for years and years. so the fighting in some areas of the done by since 2014, after the annexation of crimea, pro russian separatists wanted the east in ukraine region to secede from the rest of ukraine. and russian troops gradually advanced in the danbury with deadly consequences for the civilians living there. a man's body is recovered from the rubble of a multi story apartment building neighbors looking on are shocked by the rescue work in chassis p. r. in don, ask oh, blast. all that remains of the high rise is a pile of rubble. during the night, russian rockets hit the building, killing more than 40 residence. only a few survivors could be rescued. now we are

always afraid, afraid at night and during the day because we never know when something might happen to us. a ukrainian soldier on home leave finds his grandmother's body under the rubble. i'm at a loss for words. most of all, i would like to kill putin with seemingly unlimited supplies of artillery and ammunition rushes war machine appears to be slowly but fiercely moving forward. meanwhile, russia has conquered almost the entire don bass region. what are russia's plans for the occupied don bass? really terrible situation for the civilians living there and they're pounded boy. this russian missiles. i'd like to pass the question on to you. leanna, what

a russia's plan for the occupied region where what we see, we're at now is that russia's pursuing a defacto annexation of this weekend. we have politicians coming in. we have washing structures installed in this region. ukrainian passports that are taken away and replaced by washing pets. but so that's a strategy that we already know from the past. but what is crucial here is, and i think it's really a without a good question to ask if vladimir putin has the appetite for more war, he definitely has because we really should not fall into this trap of thinking. well, he just wants to do that. and little hands legions, and then he will be satisfied. this is not a question about this is not a war about how it totally this is a war about existence about the existence of your queen as an independent nation and washers already. now, beyond those territories, very active, beyond those toes, it will continue to advance towards odessa, if it has the opportunity. so the question of, you know, can we appease washer if you claim somehow agrees to a cease fire and to those regions remaining and washing control is really not

a serious question. and this is not what must cause planning. but for some, it is still a serious question saying that we should talk to russia, that they should be back again on the negotiation table. what do you think it is in there been so many red lines by the west when he comes to russia and who tim says, i can continue as long as i want to go. how is it possible to stop? and i think her, the only possibility is to show strength. this is the only thing actually that put in understands. we've seen this over the last decade where we had several attempts off talking to put in. we had lots of politicians in the west is that we have to find a compromise. we have to have the russians, but unfortunately this didn't work. and those who haven't understood this on february 24th or maybe it's their problem put in only understands

strength. and so we, on the one hand, we have to strengthen ukraine concerning the economy concerning the military. on the other hand, we have to find solutions for or for our own economies. this concerns, mainly guess because we are very, very much reliant on russian gas. and we have to redesign our energy system over the upcoming 2 years. not buying gas in other places after these 2 years. but somehow getting rid of gas, because if we are just buying gas in other places, this will keep the gas prices on a high level. and this will be very useful to prove finding a long term solution to the dependence of fresh and gas. i'd like to as roman about the report that we just saw, would rushes plans also considering that russia once now to have this fast

procedure for ukrainians to get a russian passports a what is the plan on a long term? well, i agree with the owner has just said, so the plan is to destroy ukraine as an independent state and rogers, i'm keeping on this path and it is not going to try to fulfill this a quickly. so a russia is trying to, to cut you crane in pieces because it is just too big to destroy quickly. and that is why russia has occupied some territories and is now trying to integrate them into russia by, by changing the currency. so you pay, not in your opinion, but in russian rouble, they are changing the school programs. they are sending russian politicians russian military to control. and of course, they are trying to suppress the ukranian opposition are in those territories the

ukrainians, willing to fight behind the front lines. so this will take some time that i think the russia is probably will continue to occupy much more territory by fall maybe in winter. and the west is already doing a lot. and what we have seen so far and the west is also facing a dilemma. if they are providing ukraine with more deadly weapons, like those high mars rocket launchers, which are very effective as we have seen in the last few days against russian ammunition depots and command posts. and then the west is asking the question, where is the red line for putting when he will head back and he threatened to heat the targets in he didn't specify, but you said we could, we could hit targets that we haven't had before. and she probably implied the

ukranian government, maybe the kind of defense minister, so targets in the ukranian capital or maybe targets in other major cities are military targets. targets maybe more uh for where, where you kind of command and is. so it is, it is very difficult for the west. on the one hand, they want to help. they want to supply more weapons, but they have to find a way not to cross a certain line which is not seen. of course, nobody knows where that line is not to make this war much worse than it already is rolling. you mentioned the civil society and also the ukrainian a position induce occupied territories. and i would like to take a look at and the people living there, the people living in this place is this occupied cities that ukraine wants to retake an hour. you crank responded. nick connelly spoke with 2 citizens in the southern read, southern city of had thought due to security concerns, they wanted to stay anonymous. and this is what they had to say. at the beginning,

we all thought the occupation would be over in a week. it was only a few months in that we finally understood that the russians were here to stay a little while it done before it's fully of military vehicles. and in fact, there are many places where we're actually do that. it, of course you don't hear about the measurable working labs. i see also many posters, policies on facebook, dealing disorder person is missing. when the russians came, we were expecting things would be as bad as in mary. you paul. know we were scared to even look out the window. it was a fact that we can leave the house and buy food. he seems like a miracle. he was sure did the very

day, which is how and where are we got the economy marathon rather than the spring. but how realistic is the ukranian army fund re conquest up the south and is russia wants to offer the ukrainians, the russian pants? would ukraine is telling them to leave the area as quickly as possible? how can they work more it's i think there's a very important psychological problem. for example, in this region of kept phone at the moment. because the longer it takes for ukraine to take back these regions, or the more these people get, we'll get used to russian occupation. of course, ukraine is telling them, or don't or collaborate with the russians. we will come back. but of course,

if you are a citizen of your thought and you're waiting for months and months and years for you to come, you have to somehow live your life or leave the reasons, leave the region. so this is what we thought also in the don bus region 8 years ago, the ukrainians couldn't take these reasons back and of course, people after some time, either they left the region or they stayed there and they somehow adapted to russian occupation till longer process. they know that this war will continue also for months. if not years, they enter. what will that make with the western solidarity for ukraine? we have to 7 countries saying that they will support ukraine as long as it takes you think that there is a unity to support ukraine or that many countries. and i'll say this is really getting difficult for us as well. i think still half unity at the moment, but the closer winter comes, the more urgent the energy problems become. the louder will become cold that we

need is fire. and my concern is that at some point, moscow will play to these fears as it does already. now and for instance, propose some kind of toxic proposal about well, once they've occupied pet, the entirety of the region of the nets to offer a ceasefire, which obviously would not be credible. cease fire from the wash inside. we know from wash us wall strategy in syria that they offer seat fires just to take a break for their own forces and come back even stronger. but the temptation will be there in the west to, to say, well, perhaps we should try to cease fire and possibly to pressure. you quain you quite as light, it's lesson from 2014 a ceasefire doesn't work. russia will come back and even worse than it has been in the past. but for the west, this will be a challenge if we see this kind of poisoned pill for moscow. roman leanna just said ukraine learned it's lesson from 2014. what about the west?

well, we're still not sure why the, the lessons were properly learned because of germany when we speak about germany is to having a huge problem with russian gas. something which morris was more to was talking about. so the dependencies so immense over 50 percent of a german guess comes from russia and we cannot solve this problem here in germany. fast enough and ukraine needs a germany actually to stop buying russian gas because every dollar, every euro that germany pays for. it goes then probably to russian weapons to the russian army and is then turned against a crane. so there are still lessons to be learned and quickly. i would like just a few words if i may, to the, to the people living now in the occupied territories in the south or in the east, in the east. it's a different different story because much part of don't boss or some part of it was

already occupied in 2014, but it was a 1000, it's a completely new situation and nobody knows how ukrainians living the those millions of people will react in a few months or in one year, living under russian occupation, i presume that as long as russia is strong and can suppress ukrainians living there and trying to oppose the new russian regime. as long as long as russia is strong, there will be probably no, no great changes there. but when russia is weakened by western sanctions, then i think an uprising is possible, but it is still too early to tell when this will happen. and under which 2nd circumstances brian just mentioned the sanctions and we have all this discussion. when it comes to north, june 1, they have the annual maintenance. we have this turban in, in canada, they will now be sent to germany and then to russia, to activate this

a gas pipeline. again, do you think it's credible when the west says we have the sanctions for russia? but as when they start affecting us more than we say, ok you, they're not that important anymore. well, there's a reason why there are no sanctions on gas so fine wide. there are oil sanctions that will only come into place at the end of the year. and that is exactly the dependency of the west on wash and gas. so the idea is also when it comes to this turban, it is to make clear that this washer, which is cutting off the gas and the germany is not sort of, it's not, it's not the fold of the german government. and this is obviously domestic communication towards the german public. if gas suppliers from wash, i get further cut. it is a very we active strategy. it is not a pro active strategy of trying to push on moscow, for instance, to caps and gas prices. but it is a strategy to fill the storages and to try to out play moscow. and i'm not sure who

will have the upper hand in this game. i wanted to add that to maybe the story with a turbine. it's also was also done in this way to not give moscow an extra argument in propaganda that this is why we don't supply a gas to germany any more or to europe. i want to add one more thing to this gas question. we see in germany or how difficult the situation is concerning gas constant gas prices. but of course it, germany is a strong country economically. financially. we must also look at other countries on the european union, especially in the east countries like bulgaria, who are even more dependent on russian gas and who are economically much or more weak. or how will they come through this crisis? is germany can pay extra money to its citizens or to those groups?

offer the national, isn't that rich? but what will bulgaria do? this is her very difficult question, and the european union should address this question. now, we only have a few minutes left, i would like sued. if we go back to the question at the beginning, does putin have more appetite for why i think we all agree that he has that he will continue. how can this be stopped? what should be the signal that the west should send? now to say, this is enough. i think the west needs to get into a strategic planning when it comes to weapon deliveries and to link weapon deliveries to a clear war aim, which should be ideally on the greater scale, the pushing back russia to the pre invasion lines. but if they're smaller aims, for instance, we taking her son and the weapon delivery should be bill, it should be calibrated to what's the same rather than coming at hawk once the west has those available. so we needed to teach it planning. what does he quite need in

3 months and 6 months old? so it, because domestic industries and military indices, weapon industries need to adapt to produce these amounts of munition and of weapons . how do you see it? roman, how can this hunger for more? their putin has be stopped. now, what are the signals that the where should sent? well, the signal should be that the worst is ready to take pain and to help you crane. i mean, of course them by and by showing that it is ready to get rid of for russian guest supplies as soon as possible and probably sooner that we think. now at this moment, this is most important. i think i need to also continue to supply ukraine with our, with weapons, because this is the only on the only thing that pushing understands strength and strengths means weapons and malcolms. and once again, weapons, you mentioned the strength already. is there a saw something where you say the west really need to do that now quickly?

i think the, the west should not only supply ukraine with weapons, but it should also train ukraine and soldiers and the west. and this is something that is actually happening at the moment already and the good side, because it means that the west has a strategy not only for weak spot, for bombs, a good sign. thank you so much more. it's liana roman also, and all of you, if we're watching this show to the point, if you have any comments, you can leave it on our e mail or a comment on you too. thanks so much. mm hm. ah, with

ah, with who in good shape. pot and potter 8, we know what it does to the environment, but what's happening to our body climate change increases certain health risks,

but the sun can also do us good. good shape. in 30 minutes on d w. oh. we're all set it to go beyond the obvious as we take on the world. 8 hours. i do all these were all about the stories that matter to you. whatever it takes, 5 policeman follow with you. we are, your is actually on fire made for mines. come

mike speaking, how can miss passionate hatred of a people be explained a gold? where does it come from? come all swept the history of antisemitism. he's a history of stick. asia and exclusion of religious and political power struggles in the christian christianity wants to convey that is why christianity you like the figure of the jew acidy parent, some hope to fly. it's a history of slender, of hatred and violence. is the bodies from from then on the jews were considered servants of evil. we shall be told you the most atrocious chapter. and within 6 years, a 3rd of our people were exterminating $6000000.00 jews, like microbes to be annihilated even 77 years after the

holocaust hatred towards jews is still pervasive. a history of anti semitism this week on d w. ah, ah . this is dw news life from berlin, u. s. president joe biden reaffirms his support for the palestinian people. my commitment to that goal of a to stay solution has not changed by was speaking out. the talks with palestinian president mahmoud abbas in the west bank as part of his.