berlin, there's more news on our website, d, w dot com. ah, you as president biden arrived in saudi arabia to day before he shook hands with the king, he bumped fis with the crown prince snow smiles were exchanged eye contact was minimal. it was all very quick, but hard to imagine that it was entirely pains the saudi crown prince is considered a criminal by us intelligence, responsible for murder, 2 years ago by vows to make the prince a pariah along his changed since then c, today's fishbock. i'm broke off in berlin. this is the day. ah, i always bring up human rights. i always knew that my position on ca shogi has been

so clear. biden is being caught. basically, making a very, very big you turned by the, in the little see if we're allowed to receive my foot eco letting all the principals and molly is reason i'm going to saudi arabia though it is much broaders to promote us interest. i will come to fully see that he's looking non law also coming up a german soldier, convicted of planning a domestic terrorist attack tonight. he's on his way to prison. the court may clear that the plaintiff has right wing extremist not see these, these fees on an indication that he was firmly determined to commit a crime, the plaintiff, a quiet weapons and ammunition to can make an attack on high ranking politicians, all public figures. ah, we'll to our viewers watching p

b s in the united states into all of you around the world. welcome. we begin the day with the most anticipated moment in u. s. president biden's visit to the middle east today. biden arrive in saudi arabian, on his way to greet the king. he was met by the crown prince. it was a 5 2nd exchange that grabbed half the world's attention. the you as president greeted saudi crown, prince mohammed bin selman with a fist bump. no small talk, no smiles, both appeared more than willing to get it over with as quickly as possible. no up until today biden had refused to speak with the crown prince. 2 years ago as he campaigned to become us, president biden accused the crown prince of serious human rights abuses, and he vowed to make him a pariah. so why in the world did biden make saudi arabia stop on his 1st tour of the middle east by needs? the soliz help to bring down oil prices and so far they've refused to pump more,

even if they changed course, even if that helps bring down the price at the pump for us consumers. what will be the ultimate price? biden, for many is now seen as a back pedaling president who just paid a visit to a prince, who does not look much like a pariah. this, with you as diploma see in saudi arabia not long ago. former president donald trump performing a sword, dance. trump, in his administration, embraced the country and its crown prince mohammed been selma known as and b. yes. that was despite the country's widespread human rights abuses and the murder of dissident journalist, jamal casualty at the saudi consulate in istanbul. multiple investigations said the order to kill her, so she must have come from the top from been some on himself. many world leaders condemned m b s. austin wattley mobile. so that puts president joe biden in

a tough spot when he was a candidate, he called for saudi arabia to be treated as a pariah nation on but by needs to address oil prices, which have spite largely due to russia's war in ukraine. by an offer needs, the saudi's help against us adversary, iran, which is ramping up its nuclear program. washington is pushing the saudis to cooperate with israel, despite the history of mistrust and conflict against iran. both countries considered hereon, an arch foe. saudi arabia with a huge oil reserves, has made itself impossible to ignore for decades. it's used its power over energy markets to both hurt and helped us. in the 1970 s, the saudis contributed to the u. s. economy tumbling into recession with oil embargoes, but in later decades, the saudis were seen as a dependable partner in providing oil and as an ally in an unfriendly region.

then came september 11th, most of the hijackers of the plains that flew into the world trade center and the pentagon, were saudis many with high reaching connections. but washington played it down. this friendly attitude continued. when mohammed been sal, mom took over. he cultivated ties. president trump's family and trump refuse to condemn him for the casualty. murder, joe biden prefers to speak to m. b. s. his father. king samar, who officially real if the country but the king has been ill, and has rarely been seen in public in recent years. all that oil and the enormous psalms, the kingdom has to invest worldwide, keep saudi arabia irrelevant. and that means dealing directly with whoever's in charge. my 1st guest to night is can roth, executive director of human rights watch. he joins me to night from geneva,

switzerland can it's good to see you. again. i just want to say, i want to start with the optics of, of what we saw today that the bump fist that president biden shared with the saudi crown prince. what did that cost the u. s. president will look, i think that i'm the big question that you posed in this opening is it is biden's seen as selling his human rights principles for the possibility of a smidge in more of saudi oil down the road. there's no media promise, but he may be in the future. unbind wanted to be seen to be trying to fight inflation. so he went to saudi arabia. and the question is he, while he's there signaling his ongoing profound concern about the saudi crown princess, abysmal human rights record. and so far he is utterly failed. you know, the fist pomp was supposed to be short of a handshake. but you know, that's not enough. that's not a statement of human rights principles. i'm. he then met with the crown prince

alone and came out and recounted what had happened. and it was a really a poor performance to be honest with you. i'm here, he said, are we discussed human rights and political reform, which are in a meaningless faith. the saudi people have no idea what specific abuses, bye and talked about. they had an exchange about jamal kashodi murder. you know, biden said, you mohammed been salmon ordered it, and b, i said, no, i didn't, they said, well, we disagree move on basically. and, and then, you know, buying had this almost incoherent statement where he said, you know, dealing with saudi critics abroad is a violation of human rights. he couldn't even get himself the sake chewing saudi critics abroad, or threatening saudi critics abroad, or arresting their families back in the kingdom. you know, those are all things that happened. those are violations of human rights, but couldn't even get that out of his mouth. so you know what you get is sort of minimal whist token ist reference to human rights as if somehow that makes up this

huge legitimacy boost there by ms given the saudi crown prince by going to reach georgia jetta and meeting with him. and what i'm reading here is the president biden, you know, he was asked, you know, what about if there is another jamal could shogi another more. and the president is quoted as saying, if anything like that occurs again, they'll get the response that they deserve. and much more that is going to ring hollow though, in the salty kingdom, isn't it after the visit today? but that's the problem. i mean, what happened after the last murder? you know, he was declared prior and here we are a little over a year later on. and he's welcome back into the foe. because the united states, you know, wants to be seen as pushing for more saudi oil. so biden can be seen as having been really fighting to lower inflation in advance of the mid term elections like this is not a principal stands for him, right? everybody can be fortunately, right?

when it's easy, the question is, what if there's a price to be paid and buying showed he's not willing to pay that price. you know, the other thing he sites as well, you know, there is a ceasefire in yemen and everybody's happy live versus his fire yemen. that's a horrible conflict, but you know, mohammed can summit, his vehemently fought any accountability for the systematic bombing of yeah, many civilians. so if the ceasefire fails, we have every reason to believe that yami civilians are going to be targeted again . your by the sites you know, is new rep reproach mall between saudi arabian israel where there now was a direct flight between the 2. and they're going to cooperate and fighting iran. but now the truth is both saudi arabian israel have their own deep interests in opposing iran. they don't need to have the u. s. government give up its human rights principles to achieve. i'm going to come back to yemen in just a moment. but let's stick with it with the notion here of oil, the find administration wants saudi arabia to pump more oil. saudi arabia's spare capacity, as i understand it is rather modest. i mean,

the impact on fuel prices would also be modest us what economists are saying. so how can, how can this be worth so much to the u. s. president, is this, is this all about getting prices to come down at the gas pump bright before the mid term elections? is that what this is all about? no, i think this is all about buying pretending to be doing something about inflation, you know, initial limit to what he can do. it's mainly in that hands of the fat in the, in the right, raising interest rates in the like. but buying, you know, is being held responsible by many americans for the rise in gas prices in particular. so even though there's not a lot he can do, even though saudi arabia, as you say, does not have a lot of spare capacity. it's not even promising to use anything right now. a thing may be down the road of any more. oh, it's that, that, that has medics the look that with buying, being able to go there as he said to night and say, you know, i pushed for more oil to fight inflation. and that's what this is about. and that

is, you know, that is not something to give up basic human rights principles in can. how do you explain us foreign policy? we've, we've got a war going on right now in ukraine. so you've got vladimir putin had of russia. you've got the saudi crown prince, the defective leader there, of saudi arabia. in both of these men are responsible and behind, you know, attacks on innocent civilians, one being in ukraine. the other being in yemen. are there not accountable really, to any one of their, not democratically elected, at least the crown prince is not. and yet the united states chooses to stand with saudi arabia and now has turned vladimir putin into a pariah. how do you explain that? look at it 1st. i think we should be clear, the couldn't not fairly liked it either. you know, they both are autocrats unaccountable to their people. each of them able to pursue a war, you know, put in ukraine on and b as in yemen with horrible consequences. my fear is that

president biden is missing the forest for the trees here. he's too focused on, you know, maintaining a military coalition against russia. to do that. he needs to keep inflation down. therefore, he needs saudi arabia to pump or well, but what he's missing in that is that, you know, the ukraine conflict is perhaps more importantly, i'm central in the global contest between democracy and autocracy. and china is the main adversary there. and the chinese government, other autocrats love to say, well, you know, we may be autocrats but democratic leaders are hypocritical and they don't even stick up for democratic principles when the going gets tough. and i'm afraid that this spider trip to saudi arabia this re embrace of the saudi crown prince is going to be exhibit a, in the case of the autocrat is claiming that democratic principles are really just principles of a policy. so that risks, you know, maybe gaining a little bit and building the anti rush, a coalition around ukraine, but losing a whole lot in this global contest between democracy and autocracy. kin roth,

executive director of human rights watch him as always. we appreciate your time, especially on a friday night and your insights. thank you. thank you. ah . but today a court here in germany convicted a german soldier of planning a far right terrorist attack. 33 year old franco al brush was sentenced to 5 and a half years in prison. now the former boomed this vale lieutenant, let a double wife hosing as a syrian asylum seeker, although he can't speak arabic. prosecutor say that he intended to pass off at an attack as an act of terrorism, committed by a refugee in order to undermine the german governments migrant, an asylum policies. and prosecutors se albrecht had a list of potential murdered targets, including the german interior minister, the vice president of the german parliament,

and the jewish head of an anti racism foundation. i'll brush told the court that he considers germany's current migration policy to be genocide. does not stephanie about thought that the quote is convinced that the plaintiff wanted to commit a politically motivated crime. in, in, in its deliberations the cult may clear that the paint it has right wing extremist nazi views and the black escapade water, these fees on their own and not the basis for the punishment. however, according to the court, these fees are an indication that he was firmly determined to commit a crime by totally unlike his sonata, according to the court, the plaintiff, a quiet weapons and ammunition which he possessed in order to commit an attack on high ranking politicians. oh, public figures has indicated that the will begin can i'd for more now,

when to bring in a reporter been night, he attended the hearing to day in frankfort. he is in berlin to night. been. it's good to have you with a scholar. this is one of the few times in post war germany, history that we have seen a member of the german armed forces accused to planning a terrorist attack. did you get a sense of the unprecedented gravity of this case inside the courtroom? yeah, i mean it was, it was definitely a tense atmosphere in the but the defendant himself looked fairly relaxed throughout. and he so sad, it was like a kind of last to 2 hours while the have that judgment me was met him. and he kind of a self at one point, but there was no. what happened earlier in the trial is that he would like he would sort of use the use. the child is a bit of a platform and talk about his kind of areas like when makes his conspiracy theories

. and he can very quiet and the, and he didn't speak and didn't interrupt. so i didn't try and make a demonstration out of it. but yeah, as you said, it was a, it was definitely a significant trial for germany. this, this case was about right. we extremism which the german interior minister has said is the biggest threat facing the country. do you think the court wanted to make an example of this ex soldier? yeah, well they didn't, they didn't. so on the one hand, the judge definitely took the status line on the prosecution's line of argument. they said yes, he was definitely planning an attack. and yes, he was planning an attack as he was a racist m. c. c. my. and but the on the hand, they could have given him a much stronger sense. and so the maximum sentence to the crime that he was

a convicted of which is preparing a serious, violent offense. endangering the state would have been 10 years and he eventually got 5 and a half years on the prosecution itself, only asked for 6 years. so they that the judge was slightly moving and i kind of gave him a few months off his sentence. partly because the trial had been so public and so spectacular. they said that his right to like his is presumption of innocence rights have been violated slightly because it was such a public trial. so they kind of, they could have been a lot harder on him in general, the prosecution was very happy with the results. and if we look beyond this court case, is there evidence to support claims of wide spread far right sympathies within the german armed forces? well yeah, i mean that's what came out of this trial. i mean, that's one of the reasons why this channel was so significant is because we learn

through this evidence that there are networks the gather on telegraph in the armed forces and in the police. and they are and they are so preparing for their so called de x, which is vaguely defined day when the state, the state powers will crumble and there will be some kind of violent compensation. so they hold guns and he hoarded guns and the, and is because of this case that we know that these, these networks existed and they were and the because it him and they were man, they were able to trace other people who are in the armed forces or formerly in the armed forces, a police officer as well and who were holding guns and lot of guns to see. so that was one of the reasons why this case was so important. so, i mean,

it would be wrong to say that you know, that the german forces are totally riddled with nazis, but at the same time you do it. yeah, you can say the word, there are networks. and one of the significant reasons of this child and partners because the, the, the government now has to commit to finding them, you know, there's much more awareness of that problem now to be reporter, been nice for up to date on any credibly important verdict and prison sentence that was handed down to the frank, frank. ben, thank you. ah, russian attacks and ukraine continue to target civilians in different locations to universities in the front line. city of michael live in southern ukraine were hit to day. the cds administration provided this footage and the regional governor says 10 russian missiles hit early on friday. at least 2 people were wooed. meanwhile,

far away from the front line in the needs rescue words are searching for survivors embodies after a missile strike on thursday. at least $23.00 people were killed there, including we understand at least 3 chill where the russian invasion of ukraine is prompting germany to overhaul its cyber security defenses of the government. here in berlin, fears that kremlin sponsored cyber attacks could come as payback for economic sanctions that have been slapped on russia. part of the plan involves promoting cyber resilience for companies that are supplying critical infrastructure, such as transport, food, health, energy, and water. once again, our agenda has the clear goal of combating cyber crime and criminal content on the internet. with much greater consistency kenzie isn't of 18, we must be able to act on i t infrastructure that i used for an attack is easy yet

that in this way is security authorities can prevent stop or at least mitigate cbs attacks and abstract. sophomore, this i want to bring in. now rob chaplin t is known as an ethical hacker. he's also head of cyber services at felling cyber . rob, it's good to have you on the show. you know, you say you are an ethical hacker. so when you look at germany's current cyber security setup, what would an unethical, a hostile hacker be capable of doing? yeah, well, as best right to my job is simulating these, these criminal attacks and looking at how vulnerable most companies are at the moment. i sufficiently scaled and advanced tucker as we have coming out of russia would be able to target most companies, you know, generally speaking, most companies don't really know what they're doing. it's very difficult to defend yourself against cyber attacks. nowadays. it's very confusing is

a lot of things. what do i do? what date, i'm sorry at the moment, we're looking at situation where companies are vulnerable and we need something in place to help those companies know how to defend themselves. you know, the german government's own paper on cyber security. it's, it's pretty, it's sober reading. actually, i'm quoting here, it says the sabotage disinformation are capable of massively and persistently impairing or even disrupting the functioning of our community and our economy. how worried should we be? i mean, based on my experience, it is surprising, simple to break in 10 to most companies a day, even large companies. but small, medium companies, especially, and a lot of critical infrastructure is made up of those smaller companies, or at least i suppliers to the larger companies. so we should be worried, however, it is very difficult to do a mass attack on lasers company similar times. and in order to struct christmas critical last name, structure or a large scale, you would need to do that. so i think what we'll see is individual companies being

affected, and we've seen that already. we see lots of lots of energy companies and other businesses being a tax, but i think we see those companies being hit and often by ramps where those kind of keep map and wraps and extortion attacks happening. well, i think it's unlike a we'll see a mass mass scale attack, cuz i think we probably would have seen that already when, when the base started. what were the current situation? you have 16 german state, 16 states that are responsible for their own cybersecurity. so we're talking about div centralization here. is that a good or a bad thing in the eyes of a bad hacker? at the, in the, the bad hack. you want that to be lots and lots of different rows. so 16 states is good for the bad hackers. because there are lots and lots of different conflicting advice, and when you're a small business and you just want to survive to try to make money, you're trying to look off your shareholders, etc. it's very difficult to work out how to defend yourself against attack. so it's much better for a company to have centralized voice where everything, you know,

it's going to work, you know, take the steps and we're going to have to spend the guy cyberattacks. where is it at the moment you have conflicting a bosh in different areas? it's very, very difficult to defend yourselves not well. so let's imagine we've got russian sponsored hackers here who want to launch a cyber attack. here in germany. they're not going to like the news then that the german federal office for information security is going to soon take over from the 16 states when we're talking about cybersecurity. are they? no, i mean it should make it harder for cuz it obviously depends on how good the advice is and you hope it will be good and how, how well it's followed. of course, those companies have limited budgets. sorry, the boys coming out. it's quite expensive. and what they do then that's a lot more difficult and to implement. but if the voice is quite simple, like nice stuff, like long passwords, multi factor authentication, anti virus, i'm backup systems that complete the offline. so you get hit by rest, what you call the hackers can get to that as well. but is it what is it that simple?

rob, is it that simple? i mean, it's just basic steps you can do. so i mean, cybersecurity can get really, really complex, but actually in most cases, the attackers go to the easy stuff, the, the low hanging fruit, the things that reasons exploits inherently, they're lazy, right, and they will go to the easiest company. so if every company's got all the base to expect in place, it makes it more difficult for them to break it. and it's not gonna stop at the tech jury. cuba times, the russians who try ethical hacker, rob chaplin rob is always good talking with you. tell you if i want to protect my id systems, i'll definitely give you a call. thank you. with the day's almost done the conversation that continues online. you'll find us on twitter either the w news, you can follow me on twitter at brent golf t. v. at remember, whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day. have a good weekend, everybody ah

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