a really me much de bundis lee. oh, well, don't worry. we'll start up again soon. this legal action goals all in on kick off, stuart august 9th, here on t w. finally, little is known about the inner workings of the kremlin, especially with vladimir putin in power. but my guest this week form a prime minister because cassiano worked on the putin in the early 2 thousands. and he knows what happens behind the closed doors of the russian government. he says he feared for his own life, after opposition, politicians,

virus m tough was killed in 2015. and he still does everyone in the rush, a normal person, but how secure is putting himself, what about the rumors of ill health? how does he think this war in ukraine can n? and why all those years ago, the russian president, boris yeltsin, groom and unknown, k g, b colonel as his successor. all that and more on complex for we can cut down of welcome to complex zone. hello trip to be review. you said recently you left russia earlier this year after a new law was brought in providing for 15 year prison terms for calling the war a war or an invasion. how difficult was that decision for you? it's difficult to difficult them,

although just i'm in the position for more than 18 years. just always was under pressure, but these i would say risk to be a p b in jail in the sentence. of course, i decided not to keep not to think this risk and i will out the russia, are you scared of the my put in i'm afraid of all the situation for all the russian sense. for my stamps on my family. of course, i don't want to be in jail. i don't want my raises my political activities to be in jail. unfortunately, i already get 3 of my political collaborators already in jail, just on the investigation on this new law that is already just applicable and your law and just watching them. kids seem just punishing pupils for the criticism of the resume as an opposition figure, how carefully do you have to calculate what you say and do,

given the violent way in which so many ration opposition figures have been put out of action. right now i am outside and i'm really speaking joseph with this style which i used to just but always was not ready to go all bleeding. but of course i'm making judgments and giving judgment, the will events and miss miss support and his team do. but of course i'm free to book, but after your opposition leader barish nam tough was shot in 2015. you said you feared for your life. do you still feel for your life? every one and the rest should be scared and the future life and me tool and normal customs. of course, of course, right now, in russia, that is the difficult sedation of people's case to

opposition. fingers were apparently assassinated in 2003 while you were russians. prime minister said you should cough who set up the liberal russia movement and the journalists, you're a sugar cheese and who died suddenly of a mysterious illness. both had been investigating the 999 apartment bombings after rumors that the state might've organized them to create a protests pretext for cracking down on chechnya. were these state assassinations? i don't know right now from today's point of view. it seems to be like it was at that time. we had no information, i have no feeling that would be the last from today's prospect from today's i mean this regime is doing this absolutely clear that could be the case. but you are prime minister the time. did you know that these assassinations were going to take place? no. not of course. of course not. and did you inquire one to inquire into them

as prime minister? there wasn't, there wasn't least occasion open open by just searching or particular office by the police and it was done, but unfortunately nothing could just froze. what was, what was unfortunate, but did you suspect as head of the government at the time that your own state was actually killing these people was actually responsible for killing these people? no, i didn't. i didn't have that. she didn't get that time frame to and as for the upon the apartment bombings themselves, what do you believe they will state sponsored? at that time, i didn't believe i don't believe that was false and i've always provide them completed. it was involved in that uniforms and we should be successfully the them that's of course i and your all those problems to be true happened that that time.

but i was completely occupied with the situation. but the reforms with the economy with the social sphere. no, that wasn't from my cabinet launched, and that was my priority. again, mr. fortune was at the head of a lot of the feel of the kids and all the services that security services. but he's he was in charge on a controlling all those investigations. there been plenty of assassinations attributed to the russian state since then, both in russia itself and abroad. do you know how these hits authorized? i don't know what you mean just of course i don't know any jason organic meetings, but i didn't get what you exactly mean. well, who would have ordered them? who would have ordered these assassinations at what level?

as far as you know, at what level would these killings had been decided? what, getting the killing of people who are opponents of the rushing state like alexander living in conferences, 2006 for my f. s. b officer killed in london. i don't know. we can guess as almost a normal people just so we can guess. right? no, just kidding in mind. what's going on right now in my country? we can guess that that could be in the highest level. the same as you said, just others in the some of their bodies in salt and other people would like live in london and other people just so course of course it would be, would be decided on the highest level while this threat hangs over, people who speak out against russia, isn't it true to say there will be no organized opposition inside the country those days over completely. right now of course its position is

unsafe and the problem object situation last year, support and just support many activities put in jail samples for many years. and that's why i'm just the position destroyed. but evidently in the upcoming future, their consideration will come and positions will grow up. because just of all developments taking place right now, i mean i mean sanctions and just internal boiling. and i think that this combination of those sectors would leap and then it would lead to that too strong opposition moment and it wouldn't change in the future. do you think the west should have raised more objections to the killings of opposition? figures? do you think they turned a blind eye to them at least in the early days when they started and put in the regime? i thought this way that completely disappointed and the reaction,

whistler exit on the regional and george and like facing upgrade me. but in terms of getting go, those people we can recall there was there was an action that the government that i remember just reactive quite strongly. and of course, just when mister minister was killed in and not far from random, just the action was not so great, not so house. and at that time, just the london washington on the medicaid and the europe just asking just for, for stronger reactions for this, for this getting doesn't mean so was i would say one of the most non leave the so rational position. let's talk if we may, about the western response to russia's invasion of ukraine and the sanctions that you mentioned. to what extent do you think put in the future actions will be

affected or altered by western sanctions? you said recently that he may have been surprised by the severity of those measures taken against him. this back in just those things as we show impulses or as a reaction for we don't invasion into the rate of course shocked him. and of course the sanctions that there's not a prevention that the spanish month for these criminal like to support him. and i think that that's a suck him has a suck in effect for you and for other people around him. and of course, that would lead for a great extent, stating the financial system and the economy of russia. and that will create some kinds of the race and negative, or just use for or the re people of course me the glass. i realize these and they against, we didn't, we didn't criminal activity in their grades, but i think just even why, why the larger part,

the population where they will wake up and start asking questions, why it's happening. that they leave lots of walls and propaganda will not be able to provide appropriate answers to them, which will satisfy them and they will start blame. you can, we can ever think what's happening to what extent do you think western measures have hit the personal wealth of putins in a go or is own wealth for that matter in 2017 an investigative report by nova guys yet, and the organized crime and corruption reporting project valued, the total holdings of putin, and he's in a circle family friends at nearly $24000000000.00. does that some seem likely too high or too low to you? i think what mr. poo gossling himself. it doesn't change. she's a low life. was noticing, but for people around him who enjoy life just in having everything,

just all those essence inside rush on the outside for them. it's a problem that's absolutely. and they completely just radio to leave for companies that you from them or. and they unsatisfied with this, and they expected that the west would so close the size and would certainly come back sooner or later to business as usual. but it doesn't seem like these. and that's why this way they quite the same music, could they have quite good music sentiment, and they just don't say disappointed. great, right now, we're 3 months into the wall. it's no secret that the russian army has performed poorly in ukraine for months. it stood around on the borders posing threateningly, but the reality when it invaded was very different. it failed to take care if it failed to take hockey, which is only what 25 kilometers from the russian border. how big

a humiliation has it been for russia? the performance of its armed forces so far. i think their propaganda managed with different ways and right now that people don't feel that which in the already defeated, it's not the case of it. but you're right, just that the sheet on the, on the bubble children from the origins of your grain, of course, creating some kind of music going to choose. and in fact, they know it can't even just expand their complaints or up to the new stadium for those of us. and then he has a regency with these minimum goal is not achieved. but of course there is a and, and on. but that was a 2 month forward, but it is a much less than that. first of all, just people are people expected to miss the point to achieve. and that's why that's

already already the same as me. there exists for supplies, effective supply. so a grain, of course, creating a possibility for them to race the race. and i would say a prayer for decisive advantage very soon. and i hope by autumn they will be able to have this advantage in a battle field. and then this is a national change, quite to record you what time to put in as prime minister from 2000 to 2004. how well did you get to know him personally? i don't know what extent just so we can see that i know him well, of course i met him just a few few times. leave a regular it just we discussed different aspects of foss. my just him

i trust sort of the grid extender that she promised when i reach to be a prim units that you felt brimstone you saw. so just to put my conditions that make a nuisance war there, mr. fulton would have for support. all the reforms by coming from the shade and then she implemented those promises just that with no thought exceptions, he didn't support the reform of gas sector beach was that then also included a cockle for gas from for, for different positions for different companies. and he didn't allow me to this. you are straighter for, for beach supposed to cut government responsibilities and government activities in the corner. in social fear. you've said that the put a new new 20 years ago was of a different person from the one you see today. different in what way mr. cassiano are completely completely different than the whole of the whole odyssey she has

undertaken this country for all my expectations. and micah, i'm just so that when we walked together and that time russia was absolutely integrated in the world economy. and then the world audited the headset excellent relations with the european union. when that time we launched those force fierce off economy, got you. we had a lot of in waited lot of foreign capital to be invested direct, capital, direct and westerns and the russian economy. we had good relations with stays with canada with japan, other countries. we wore just puzzled, civilized warden that we had to hand in hand. but hand in hand with those reforms, he was bringing in increasing numbers of security personnel into key positions. wasn't he? were you aware that this was the start of moving towards a police state, which is what we're seeing at the moment? no. might, it might sound, it was not the case only in the last year,

and then 2003 when we just started to press the businesses and he started, as you said, you're pointing and you, people from a former k g, b for important positions. and that, that was already i was ready with disagree with and the we was absolutely no different in different positions on the policy on the crane on the bill that was on the gus from on the new state different fall. and we had to read it and rational businesses. i would remind you that that time just that rational mucus and clinical skills radians out. and that was also our public disagreement with, you know, that's what and that time, and then 2003 these process. as you said, just of change, you can use to put your stuff up here. let me take you even further back. because when put in arrived in moscow, i think it was a 996. what you're not suspicious about an unknown k g,

b colonel and the former deputy mayor of st. petersburg suddenly being groomed for the highest office in the country. did you? did you find out the reason for that was not suspicious, but i will tell you frankly, just so if we can, which in your former case should be agent. i believe the company can do all for new development for a democratic rushing and supporting just market economy, all those reforms and the i believe, and that's why i agree with you. and i are definitely also the case that mr. yet some of that, but i'm also believed this way that supports would continue, continue to do the macro, to perform on russia potent made his reputation, whatever his reputation was in the 90s in saint petersburg, which by then was

a byword for corruption, wasn't that organized crime a murder was known as bandits city in russia, not a single business from the st kiosks. up to the largest companies operated outside matthew control. but putin effectively ran the city's financial system. that was quite a tight rope to walk, wasn't it? and it was not, not, as you have just described in the, from the information we all have today. you were making such a description, right? no, but on that time a, we didn't, we, russel's are living there with old awesome signals. really are pete on there on the couple of journalism that time. but that was not the case. and they wouldn't say that. you said that mr. cassie on a bit in saint petersburg, the deputy prosecutor general said in a 994 interview that i did with him, that organized crime was infiltrating all the judicial organs. the police

counterintelligence the courts. suddenly the crime rate rose very sharp, he said, and we weren't ready for it. in short, crime was out of control. that was the deputy prosecutor general. valerie both shook off said it in 1994 of them. if you're dead, then i think that i'm just people in law school in the government do, benson to these or just they didn't thank us as important information. maybe it was the judge of i don't know, i was not responsible for that. just judging those report. so for debbie to general general prosecutor of son because whatever with this name and i said, and that missed against believe to put him is a good man. and he, a good, i would say in the success of continuation of those changes, missed to get some stuff. and when, when the, this edition comes to me, came to me whether i would die when that time i was already in the $8899.00. that

was minister of finance and the women this is asian came to me where they will be working with william. i said yes. subject that fulton will support my initiatives. and he personally instrumental responses. you talked about all the reforms that yeltsin pushed through, but at the same time, he held the door open for the grotesque oligarchy is that rub to russia blind, didn't the, thanks to him. at one point, nearly half russia's wealth was controlled by just 7 business men. that really is the definition of madness, isn't it? it is not a definition with joseph. describe it was and i can admit that it was unfair privatization, but not in the session colors you have just use it was it was the legal but not fair. it was, i was a political mistake, but mr. garrison,

as i understand that the reasons are to lose and that yes, that was unfair. and i wanted to change the situation. i wanted just to impose a session for those on regards for those people who appear to be there and there's with as a result of these privatization. but mr wouldn't allow me to use this subject. you wanted to, if you wanted to get all those kind of got us on the hook and what he, and he's still have this hoops on all those well to people how vulnerable is posted now, to the people who he works with inside his, in a circle who's waiting in the wings in politics i expected was the same and your government, someone is always waiting in the wings. and if not someone has been picked by putin, they're likely to be just as ruthless as he is. is that the case?

there is no one who is, who is strong enough, who supported by others who is capable around the country. mister william, just deliberately, just grades of such a situation that they will not be any feasible placement for him. and the propaganda explains to rational people as the case only fortune, and that's why just have a population asking the question just who is if not point, that's why whether they liked him or not. but they, they, they forced to support him. how much credence do you give to the reports of putins, ill health? in the last few days, richard, dear love the former head of britain's foreign intelligence service, said he thought putin would be gone by next year because of health issues. do you have any reliable information to support that? i don't have any, any medical information on that, but my feeling also such that could leave could leave just

next year and coming. awesome. i think some guy in the morning what starts i peer and i think most of the stuff is the same. how to do pup. but it's, it's my prediction that's nothing. it's not based on any specific information. that's my feeling. it goes, i know some of people who are still around with me and i know took a little luck involved, but i knew quite well, i guess that's why my feeling is my predictions that the situation is develop a negative since a negative man med. net negative directions and food you thinks how to, to get out of this, there is no scenario. how good and, and how good, and this is it, as i said, they bore shots as a result of these imposing sanctions. and that's why just they thinking just trying to build up a scenario right now. no one is doing nothing just because we have to waste to come back the station before february 24th or just to move. a rush at all was just

sample like north korea, but nothing done in what i do these directions. that's where people simply waiting . what's going on, what's happening in the bottles you? that's why i'm saying just that the, the front line with the great this and the water bottles fuel to success. that is a crucial point for, for future of russia future for your grand anger is in change and that's where you think the war will be decided on the battlefield. not in negotiations. exactly, but purple jim is not prepared for any negotiations. the ukrainians are not prepared to surrender at all excluded. and they are not ready to give any to the colonel concessions. mister potent doesn't, doesn't accept a defeat. that's why that's why he would continue, continue fighting and that's why she will be better. just get out of the position

rather than just to be defeated and be a leader that's for him. that's the most sensitive the most crucial point. me how cassiano if it's been good tabby on conflicts and thank you very much for your time . thank you very much. it was great ah, ah, ah, with

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