one siena see voyage of ferdinand of magellan. rather a race linked to military interests. a race linked to political and military, christie, that linked to main financial interests and adventure full of hardships, dangers and death. 3 years and that would change the world forever. but children's journey around the world to start september 7th on d. w. as rushing force is advanced in the east of ukraine. t f is wanting allies, it's massively out gun. this week, a senior adviser to president the landscape at western support wasn't enough to combat russia's fire power. my guest this week from poland is rebec sykowski, who served as both foreign and defense minister, and is now

a member of the european parliament. he thinks those pressing for a quick c spy a wrong it would be better to, to defeat russia in don bus, or also better for russia. i remember, you know, as well as i do that in russia, revolution or reform usually happen after a lot for. but as nato already given way to nuclear blackmail from the kremlin, should be you finally set up an army worthy of the name. and there's more european leaders plan to visit here. does the west actually have a plan for how this war might end? all that and more uncomfortable for robert gorski, welcome to complex zone. hello. an urgent cry for help this week from the ukrainians. they say they're hugely outgunned by moscow and president landscape advisor mckayla padaya once arms and on says if you think we should lose, he said,

just tell us directly we want you to lose them. will understand why you give us weapons at this level. this is a very loud alarm. bell ringing and key is made to going to stand by and let you go under. these are decisions by member states of nato. i was just in washington talk to high ranking people at the pentagon, and they are convinced that the american pipeline is working and the deliveries will make it to the front line in the next few weeks. but these are some new items of equipment. soldiers in training, remember the united states is past the bill in congress, authorizing $40000000000.00 for ukraine, half of it for arm. that's a multiple of the ukranian defense budget, let alone it's procurement budget. poland is also rallying round countries in the

ukraine region per capita. contribute it contribute, contributing a great deal. but, but of course, russia has depth. russia is a much bigger country than ukraine. ukraine is outcome. but at the moment, according to the ukrainians, russia is firing around 70000 projectiles a day of their forces. that's about 10 times the number the ukraine can muster. how can anyone expect ukraine not to buckle and this kind of onslaught? the count can be? we always knew that russia would have a new americal and, and mass quality, quantitative superiority. but remember the ukrainians receiving technical intelligence from the americans live, which means that they know exactly where the russians are and, and partly what they in 10 at which is a huge force multiplier. and frankly,

i was expecting the russians to win the invasion and for the ukrainians to prevent when the gorilla wall ukrainians have exceeded my expectations. but of course, from that point of view, it must seem terrible. so yes, we should, or we shall, we should do what we can to, to help defend this democracy that has not given any provocation from a, an invasion which according to proven putin, has the intention of exterminating ukraine as a stage of the culture. and i just hope that president, sorry, chancellor of germany, president macro and prime minister druggie. i'm not going to keep empty handed. i guess my question is, is the landscape going to get an honest answer from the alliance?

i asked because he got a visit last week from britain's defense secretary ben wallace, who told him, i think we can push russia out of don't bass. is that really an honest assessment? i hope so. ben wallace is the author of possibly the best rebuttal of approaching essay from july last year in which he mixed up all the mis so far is and so good ideology to claim that ukraine was not a real country. so he's the man of great abilities and i'm told he richard himself . i doubt he is. he's, he's just speaking to the wind. so if he's saying this, i hope he's right. but given the situation on the ground at the moment, do you see any way that russia is going to allow itself to get pushed out of the dunbar after all, they've been there in one form or another fermenting

a war for the last 8 years? haven't yes, but not in the same places they were the line of contact further to the reese. but remember the very limited gains that they made in the don bus have been purchased at a huge expense in mercury and the blood. so the ukrainians are fighting a very intelligent war, not giving the russians a set battle which they might lose, but just imposing a huge cost on them. as you know, if the ukraine estimates the russian losses anywhere near correct, you know that claiming 32000 russian dead, let's say that that's exaggerated by a 3rd that's still doubled, the number of soldiers killed in ukraine in 3 months. then the, the entire soviet union lost in 10 years of its war and i've got a huge losses,

particularly when you take into account the fact that for every dead soldier, there are usually 2 or 3 that are wounded. but the message that is coming out of key ass now is, is of a pretty dire situation, isn't it? you know, i wonder what all these fine words that ukraine has received. we've got your back, we're not going to let you lose. we stand shoulder to shoulder. what are those fine words worth when nato is in effect, half sitting on the fence, watching large pots of ukraine being shell to pieces. tim, that's a great question, and i'm glad you asking me this question on the chevy lab. but i think i should ask this question to simplest yes. and if he came on the program we suddenly what, but what, what it, what is your answer? i didn't mean it should do what it said it would do, which is through your grade. is everybody doing what they say they were going to do?

isn't that the case, the what holding nato back from giving you creating the 5 par at needs? and from confronting russia directly is basically putins nuclear blackmail is one of the most consequential aspects of this war that the west has already given in. to that blackmail, the russia 70 broke the budapest memorandum of $994.00 under which ukraine gave up. what was the 3rd largest stockpile of nuclear warheads in return for guarantees of independence and border a guarantees from russia from the united states, u. k. france and china. so the country in russia has broken. it's have a duty to help you crane by the way, china is the country that could really help which in to get out of your current or else but yes, this is. a actually not from nature because nature was an ally and doesn't have

stockpiles of, of equipment. it's members, space and numbers. they should be assessed on that pack capital contribution to that ukrainian defense. and on this, as i've mentioned before, eastern europe looks good tonight. it states look good, the u. k. ok. but, but, but some of the largest countries in the european union and nato didn't look so good. but my point is, rarely that all president putin had to do was to wave his nuclear missiles at nato, from a distance, and implicitly threatened to escalate to a nuclear war. and nato back down that is consequential isn't as far as global security is concerned. no, i didn't see it like that. it's that russian threaten us with mucus all the time. you know, when i was foreign minister, negotiated with the americans,

the placing of the missile defense, i didn't, poland, they were doing it so. so frequently that i had to publicly asked the rest in general, stop to threaten us with nuclear annihilation. no more than once a quarter, and then they stopped. look, we are a nuclear lions to anything you can when you come back. the real threat is to ukraine. but my impression is that they were using that in the 1st month of the war and they've, they've stopped recently. if moscow does prevail in the still pretty pessimistic about the outcome of this one to you said in may. if president putin gets the dumbass like he got crimea, he'll then rebuild his army, and in a few years time, he'll go on the offensive again to try to get the rest of ukraine. do you really think as things stand now that ukraine is going to be in

a position to prevent that happening? well, you know, our strategic culture says that you should always give the enemy so called off from an opportunity to correct the mistake a. but what's president put, you clearly doesn't shout strategic culture, and you only need to read him from the india. say that i've already mentioned his proclamation to the russian people on the talk of this war at to know that his, the objective is to take over or dominate, or at least the rule in all of ukraine. so yes, i'm afraid that, that i see now just mean more war and if you have time, so it would be better to, to defeat russia in the, in don, but also better for russia. remember, you know, as well as i do that in russia, revolution or reform usually happened after last war. you give an off ramp and you

give excuses and you give a way out to somebody who's forces of committed the kinds of war crimes that putins forces that committed sticks in the doesn't it my point exactly at know we should and remember the nature ministerial communicate the aim of the alliance is, is true or false russian true back across the international border of ukraine. that would be a visible sign of twitching fadia and hope for the government of russia. in the future. you say that the, the nato plan last week, the ukranian m p, and head of the goal of the party. cara roodick said she was extremely upset because it didn't seem that the collective west had any kind of strategy or plan for how this war should be handled. is she right?

well, the americans have done all ukraine far more than i would have expected 5 months ago. partly because they see this as a warning to china not to try to take over taiwan. and let you know 20 the $20000000000.00 on the fence for ukraine, only being delivered now. let's give them a chance. nato's boss, young stockton bug said a few days ago that the alliance must be prepared for the loan. the whole. is it in fact prepared for that in your view? or can you foresee circumstances under which nato might not hold together over that long haul? and might reluctantly accept that russia hold on to the areas in the region. so that seized i think president fujen has given the nature of a new lease of life. you know, off the year of expedition. we've wafaa some people in the airlines were wondering

whether it's still relevant. we've been warning a western allies all along russia, state ideology, russia security services, and russia. x sizes point to new imperialism. and unfortunately, we've indicated it took nature some yet to write contingency plans for central europe, then some minimal physical presence, but this physical presence is now increasing. we have elements of the 2nd airborne in southeastern poland. we have a logistical bridge to produce ports and fields with the delivery of, of weapons and ammunition to ukraine. and there are plans to beef up nature present in central europe further, which is correct. you know, we had

a russia and needs for russia founding act, which russia has blatantly broken too, and have to be consequences. but that new lease of life that you're talking about for nato, depends on your crane winning, or at least being able to hold onto the territory it had up till february, the 24th, and russia losing. and that money, none of that, none of that seems likely, does it notes. and technically speaking, ukraine of course, is not in nature. nature defend the territory of its members. are meant from the point to the system. so it's giving to nato, got wayne better to stop twitching in easton ukraine, then to have to fight on the nature border shore. but but, but ukrainian giving us the time to beef up defenses. and i just hope that

countries now at last become serious about spending 2 percent of gdp on the defense polar has been doing it for the last 15 years. we are now raising it to 3 percent. how worried are you about disagreements within the alliance? i'm thinking of turkey blocking accession by finland and sweden, stockton bug referred to it himself in the last few days or something he takes seriously. given the fact that old decisions in nature require consensus couldn't turkey seriously blunt nato's edge. not nature's edge, but it can blunt enlargement clearly because you need an unlimited, you say the turkey is involved in a very bloody and difficult syrian civil war. and remember the cut this faction is also a factor in internal turkish politics, including in,

in the current campaign in turkey. so, issues to do with these parties, all the formations, a very serious turkey. and then we'd have to engage in a series dialogue with talk you about it. but i can assure you that the great majority of members included will see finland and sweden as enhancements of our security. and i'd be very happy to have the swedes and defend alongside me in the trench. let's talk a bit about america if we may. joe biden has spent the time since he took office, telling europe, and america is back. but the holy, legitimate question that the parents are thrown back at him was for how long is that question still valid? has the us become intrinsically unreliable for europe? wellington, you probably know the same. i think that about covers stolen. who said that the trouble with democracy is you never know who is going to win. and yet we don't know

whether donald trump might not come back and, you know, i mean a europe. and if he does, he named europe as a. and remember, his 1st impeachment was because he tried to blackmail the president lensky over on deliveries to ukraine a because you know, to, to give him on the hunter biden. and you know, this is the kind of stuff where we are likely to be dealing with. if there will be a disaster for your call from said publicly that he trusted fujen more than he trusted the f b i. i think he, he would probably decrease, saw and american supposed to be. so in the light of that, is it time for europe to get serious about its own army instead of just talking

about it or do john called young has comments back in 2015 still. how good. when he said, if i look at the common european defense policy, a bunch of chickens would be a more unified combat unit. is that still the case? i'm glad you've probably seen some of my speeches in the european parliament. i've been bragging on about this for months. in fact, i was saying last. yeah. you know, what disaster has to happen on our board is before we get serious about european defense and pushing ahead exceeded my expectations. because you absolutely right. if i that from becomes president, all american rivalry, china gets hot. next time we might not be so lucky to have american leadership in a crate on, on europe's periphery. and we would be thrown back on our own resources and we are completely unprepared. common defense takes

a lot of money and time and we start getting ready. now you will be in serious trouble. that's why my pot european people's party has tabled. so proposals in the process of the conference for the future of europe to create as opposed of the commission of defense to create a rapid reaction force to enlarge the european defense budgets to have a joint headquarters and to have more joint procurement of weapons. so the defense euros are better spent. these are very urgent issues. so, so your idea is that europe should finally start punching above its weight instead of below its weight as it has been doing over the last few years. well, if we just started punching at our weight, i would already be satisfied. and you know, it's particularly in germany's interest if they really start rearming. and it's

a big issue because we know of the politics or inside the at the then i think it would be in germany is interest to put that rearmament in the larger european also decision making context. because we already have national, including in my own country the, the leader of the routing party is, you know, the germans have a, have very start to doing anything. and he's already accusing them of militarism. so i think you'll be in, in, in germany, interest give strong backing to european, defend staying with germany. you observed last year that the modern international system had been shaped by what you called western wishful thinking and hubris. the blame germany about, about wishful thinking and hubris. partly because germany found itself very comfortable with not having to do security policy and even to some extent foreign

policy and living under the american umbrella and, and allowing itself to be led by other countries in foreign policy and pursuing very successfully at freight and industrial policy. and this was backed up by an honorable shame for what germany did during the 2nd world war. but it created the impression that somehow germany is better because it's not using force to counter force. now the 24th of february should put an end to these illusions. we are not in a country and eternal peace. there are countries in europe, one particular europe who doesn't subscribe to these a find values. oh, who doesn't see that?

the way to resolve the ethnic problems in don my, the in the don bus is to apply the european convention on the protection of minorities, but which has launched an unprovoked invasion. and i'm afraid that to defend ourselves against the revision is aggressive region. the vision is part is with counter power and, and, and germany has not fully absorbed his less. let's talk for a moment about the, the russian economy. the west has made huge sacrifices. we know to hit moscow with what they call punitive sanctions. how concern though, are you that the effect of those sanctions now seems to be waning? the ruble is now 30 percent above its pre invasion level and is the world's best performing currency this year? that's not exactly what the west hoped for. is it? no, and then we know the reason for that, namely that we have to buying russian carbohydrate and we need to,

we need to, we not cells away from them. we need to diversify. if saudi arabia stop pumping oil the, the price should come down. and then, and then you will have less money to fight his war. the russian economy is facing this investment is facing restrictions on the high tech in force that should make it harder for him to rebuild his us know, particularly of high tech weapons. russia doesn't produce chips for, for its computers. so, you know, sanctions only have an if you turn but a but i agree with what i think you are implying, namely, sanctions should be more cost me to put in them to all. so that's why we need to be smart about them. but you really think the west has done anything in terms of

sanctioning either people or goods that will change attitudes in the kremlin. that was after all, the main point of the sanctions. wasn't it? not immediately, but, you know, in addition, we founded a trade in technology council with the united states, where we will be coordinating on the investment flows on trade practices and decisions and on industrial and technical and research standards. remember in the 1980s there was an institution of called cochlan coordinating committee, which restricted the flow of, of technology to the then commented blog. it took a while, but it worked to frankie late. commented the comments the column in the final word briefly on, on the concerns which are coming out of k f. what, what would you want to be able to tell them on behalf of nato, that the cavalry is not the cavalry is coming, but at least the galleries are going to be sending sufficient weapons for them to

do the job that we're asking ukraine to do from what the americans are telling me the wagons with i munition on the way. so hold on, hold on in the products, of course. great, thanks very much for your time. good to have your own program. thank you. thank you . ah ah, with

a has no limits. love is for everybody. love is live, love matters. and that's my new podcast. i'm evelyn sharma. and i

really think we need to talk about all the topics the north devise and denied this . i have invited many deer and well known gas, and i would like to invite you to an end amendment. how many portion of love us heard out in the world right now the climate change hot stores? this is my blessing waste from just one week. how much work can really get we still have time to work. i'm doing all with his subscriber all morning with some people don't care about me because they don't see my beauty. some people don't care about me because they think i have nothing to give. but

2000000000 people due to then i am every day home their food, their livelihood, but day by day i to submit it. and so does everything. i get 2000000000 people care about me. name me. and now i need you. ah ah

ah ah, this is deed of you news live from berlin, nuclear experts from the united nations arrive at ukraine's separation power station. their arrival was delayed because of shelling near by the team plans to inspect the safety of the russian occupied plant where fighting has already prompted the shut down of one reactor. also.