communist agents from the soviet era and the u. s. government, the stuff that makes it, and the political thriller in 45 minutes on d. w. as you go to uses with author will gray. with 6 months off to war erupted in europe. there are growing fears here in asia. the conflict could be coming here too. so i've come to tie, want to work with a local team here, and speak with foreign minister joseph woot. about the surging tensions with china

. is this region on a slippery slope towards a devastating conflict? what is tie one doing to avoid it? just if we thank you so much for joining d, w and taking the time to speak with us. we're speaking just as another sign of the tensions across the taiwan strait. a chinese drone was flying over one of the outlying islands, very close to the chinese mainland time when he's troops fight warning shots. what are you trying to say with those warning shots and how do you interpret late? what are the drone flights, which is so persistent? it seems, what are they trying to achieve for the, the drones flying over human. specifically, the chinese are trying to engage in cognitive warfare. they want to shoot some things and to show in their social media, to show that the company soldiers, i incompetent things like that. and therefore, the chinese will continue to do it when they find that those kinds of footage is

useful for them for their domestic propaganda. but i think that's just a small part of why china is trying to do to tie one. if you look at what china is trying to do with high one, it's a large picture of their military ambition over us. for example, if you look at the 1st part of august, they conducted missile test and then large scale air and c exercises and also cyber attacks, disinformation, campaign, and economy caution. so if you put all this together together with the drawings, determines as to our older islands, this is part of their playbook in the future. invasion of taiwan, the minister we, we've seen during the course of these exercises. and since the exercise has also ostensibly finish that china has been defining a kind of new normal is the expression that traversing the, the median line of the taiwan strait more frequently. how is taiwan going to be

responding to this new normal? this is a tough situation for us. i must be very frank about this. even though the nice government has already announced the end of their large scale joint military exercises. but their military activities along the power street or around taiwan has not stopped their continued fly beer in place and filled airships to the waters war airspace near. ty, 12 patrol the area we're trying to upset the status quo. when we, when we recorded their air activities, the hip between 5 to 15 airplanes crossing the medium line of that went straight and 2 to 3 times of that number of sorties. conducting air exercises, either in the northern part or southern part or once a d i z. so the kind of disturbances to us, or aggression against high want is still there. so even though with the

announcement of the end of large scale military exercises, the continued to do it. and if you look, look at their ships coming closer to one. this they have between 5 to 8 military ships come in very close to tie one right before the 24 miles 24 mile. let me see adjacent water life. so the situation is still very tense and we have been keeping alert. and this is the situation that we say china is trying to destroy the stay in school, or at least a symbol of the same school, which is the median line of that that went straight. you know, the medium line of how a street has been there for decades. safeguarding peas, this ability over the power street. and without the pass agreement. the 2 minute terry's are going to come very close to each other in a chinese are coming so close that it compressed the depths of our air depends any

can create a very dangerous situation. since school across the street has been been seeing us, the interest of all parties concerned in this area or globally when china is trying to destroy the status quo, is not in the interest of us or the international community. mr. you talked about the median lie about china says they have never agreed on that. does that mean this official demarcation line is not there anymore? we wish that, or i should say we, we hope that it's still there because he's being there for decades. safeguarding pieces. the ability of course, that how one street, ah, the chinese has this long plane in destroying the same school, their military spokesperson last year, last june. said that there's no such thing as a medium line of poet straight in this year. the spokesperson of the ministry of

foreign affairs say that the whole town straight is china waters is not international water belongs china. sovereignty in china has a sovereign jurisdiction over the power straight, but i went straight in reality, has been international water for a long, long time. and therefore, the chinese have this point to make sure that its claims can support its military activities. and this is exactly what they are trying to do if there's no such thing as a medium lying of the talent straight, and therefore they're in place cross the medium line. and these kinds of activities are the, symbolizing, in his pocket, if and can be very dangerous and we oppose it. and i think the international community, especially coming from the phil democracies, they're all opposed what china has been doing. now you've described the exercises had been taking place and you described this kind of ratchet effect of great attention across the straight that you describe. the exercise is

a kind of rehearsal for, for an, a potential invasion. what is your sense? i, you can, that innovation really is potentially coming and if so, what kind of a timeline do you currently looking at? well, i can comment on the timeline. but if you look at the chinese statement, the statements coming from their senior officials. they've been saying that the taiwan belongs to china and they want to unify with taiwan peacefully if possible, and by force if necessary. and this is not only some officials, its virtually or officials are talking about this begin from shooting himself. and in order to substantiate these kinds of clean, i, there been consulting military exercises along the time, a straight or a route tie, one for a long time. if you look at the trajectory of their military threat against high one in the last few years, you see more and war chinese airplanes. they're sort,

he's coming close to our a, d i z. as in dog, they are flying closer and closer to taiwan. and their ships also increasing in number, creating threat scenarios. so if you put all this together, you see that the chinese seems to be preparing for a war against high one for what they claim unification of their country. so what they were doing in the 1st part of august, which is exercise according to their playbook against i one, let me say it again. they fired missiles to the waters near tie one. they conducted very large scale air and sea exercises. they conducted cyber attacks against high one. they conducted this inflammation campaign against high one in the same time, they also engage in equal inclusion. so put it all together. this is what they want to do to taiwan when they want to invade taiwan. and all of these exercises were

responds to nancy pelosi is visit here at the beginning of august. when you reflect on that visit, there was a debate about whether it was the right thing to do was worth it for all of this. let me make a clarification. the chinese were claiming that the speaker pillows his visit to taiwan is something that they need to respond to by speaker closes, visits with high one. he just, one of those strings of the visit has come with high one. and there was precedence, for example, newt gingrich, also visited taiwan before we have so many senators and congressmen or senior officials visiting high one from other parts of the world. and from this you can see that china just use this as a pretext to launch the military threat against taiwan. and what i would say is that the speaker pelosi specialty wanted some more ill boost for the 1000 people. pie one has been facing the threat from china for all these hein and if there is

any one, want to show their support for taiwan. he or she is heidi, appreciate it. as speaker pelosi as a normal american leader and her willingness to come to taiwan to show support to the town. it's people. i think it's the great thing for that. how many people to see and the ponies, people throughout surveys or through real actions, they showed their enthusiasm in war. come in the speaker and after speakers visit to taiwan, even though with the chinese military threat. there are more people who want to come to the how want to show their support. and you are seeing some visitors, entire ones at this time because they want to show support to taiwan and all these kinds of show of support to tie one are highly appreciated. and for the chinese claims, i think we need to clarify that chain. i just want to find the pretext, if they don't find a pretext of speaker poses visit to tie one,

they will find something else and they can always find something else. if they can find speaker pillows has been to to tie one as an excuse. such large means their skill exercises. i think they can find many more excellent, many more excuses. so that's just the chinese authoritarian way of doing things. and let me tell you, in a very frank way, the chinese military threat against high one will not stop tie one from making more friends. and at the same time, it would not stop international friends to come to taiwan and show their support to us. mr. what is your assessment of russia? the invasion of ukraine people have been calling it a wake up call for taiwan. what lessons are you drawing from how the war is unfolding? this is a very interesting question. at the same time we see the war in ukraine is still going on. we also see the chinese military threat against high one increasing over

in the european theater. we saw that back in 2014. russia took. ready hold of crimea and the world response was not enough to stop russia from going further. and now we end up a war in ukraine and in ukraine we saw that was truly unfortunate that a democracy or southern country that was under attack. my uncle dory tyrann regime, but the ukrainians were showing their bravery by defending their country defending their democracy. and the kinds of bribery also attracted lots of international support. so that is inspirational to the county people because we understand that the other chinese can also do the same thing to tie one in my that time we want to show to the international community that we are just about the same thing. we are.

we're every in fighting for our country fighting for our democracy, fighting for people and fighting for our democratic linux. and at that time with other people already talking about. ty, one might be the next, and i think the story can go further. is high one going to be the last target of the chinese already tyrann expansion. i will say no. the reason is very clear. china also clamps east chassis and their big looking a miniature exercises will sending their ships to the dispute in water. china also claims south china sea and their baby patrol of the south china sea, either by their bumpers or by their worships is so frequent these days is shina limited. what is the chinese ambition limited to east china sea, thomas trade and the south china sea? i can tell, you know, if it's not stopped, china already signed a security agreement with the solomon islands,

which is very far away from china. and if we don't stop it, the chinese government is going to say more security agreements with more pacific countries. remember, the chinese leader has already said the pacific ocean is big enough to accommodate china, india, and he says that's how ambitious they are in. are they limited to the in the pacific region or the pacific area? i would say no. if you look at the naval basis, they are building in cambodia in yama, in pakistan, in sri lanka, or the way to what you bought. i think the hip global ambition and the expansion of dollars hearings of always, it's at the cost of democracy. and i think is the time for the democracy to unite to stop the authoritarianism from expanding further, it will be how seriously is taiwan taking this threat in military terms?

i mean, we've heard very recently. taiwan is increasing its defense budget by almost 14 percent from 2022 to 2023. but that still just take defense spending to 2.4 percent of g d p. if we compare that with united states, it's been 3.7 percent israel, which faces maybe a similar of existential threat. 5.6 percent. how, how is it enough for tie one to be spending less than half of what israel spends on this defense? this is a very good question. we understand that depends, it's not free, and it may cost a lot of money. and therefore, if you look at the increase of our military budget in the last few years, it's been increasing standing and other than increasing our military budget. we also conducted the reform of our miniature strategy. for example, we have already established on all our defense mobilization agent, see responsible for designing how taiwan came mobil, icy,

self for the homeland defense. and we also acquire, as symmetric weapons into discuss with united states how we can best approach the strategy of as the metrics as a matrix to be. and this is the kinds of things that we are looking at. and we of course understand that the more military budget is needed in other than the regular indian terry budget. as you saw from the press, we also have a special budget that is used for items like missiles or jet planes. so these are what we try to do and we understand the importance of this and the government is to dylan determined to increase our military budget. so do you think the people of taiwan need to kind of anticipate maybe spending here needs to hit the 5 percent of g d p kind of range sort of comparable to israel? well, if you look at the increase of book high ones economy in the last few years, ah, the kinds of increase now we have is already substantial. and what i can tell you

is that the government is determined to continue to increase or administer the budget. and at the same time, of course, taiwan is very, very dependent on the united states for its security in terms of providing weapons and also the sort of implicit promise of support from the united states. but i want to talk about what we've heard from president biden over the last year or so on. 3 separate occasions and joe biden has said, yes, the united states would defend taiwan. going beyond the official us policy only for the white house press team within 24 hours. having to walk that back and say, oh no, nothing's changed. it's exactly the same. how does that, how does that make you feel the sense of complete confusion about the u. s. policy coming from the president himself? what we're not confused?

we are very clear that that depends on how one is our own responsibility. and we also are very clear about what the teller relations act face, that how long relations act say said the when id say is obligated to provide taiwan with defensive articles. and the u. s. has been living up to the commitment of the power relations act, and we appreciate that very much in the last few years are relations with the fight in the ministration has been very well in going there strong. and we have been discussing pi wants defense, need the kinds of defense strategies that taiwan will need to be able to defend itself. so we don't doubt on the us come in the to tie one is being very clear. and i need to tell you, once again, the defense of taiwan is our own responsibility. if we are not committed to our own defense, we don't have the right to ask others to sacrifice in under these kinds of circumstances

. we need to show that we are determined to defend ourselves, and it just like the case of ukraine. it's only the ukrainian people showed their determination to defend themselves. now you can see the flooring of international support for ukraine, and that is what we are looking at to. yes, but i want to return to buying comments because you say you're not confused, but i'm confused. many people are confused about what, why joe biden said that said something that we have promised to go beyond what was really promised. how do you interpret that? is he creating a kind of next level strategic ambiguity? is he having a senior moment? is he on top of things? how, what's your interpretation? what we have been working together with abide in the ministration as a whole. and we have been speaking to a senior officials, what the u. s. policy is, what the united se supports will be. and this kind of real situation as no

ambiguity to us. and we understand that the us is committed to providing weapons to taiwan for one's self defense in the us is also seriously engaging, tie one for security discussions. so these are what the united states has been providing, and we will continue to discuss with united states and what we would need in other than that. you should probably also look at that us presence in this region. and the way they show their presence in this region, just a couple days ago, you saw to us ships setting true the time i straight. that is the way the united states is showing its presence in this region. and by doing that, i think the us is showing is commitment to a piece of stability in this region. and it is not just the way that he says that he's doing that. we saw strongly canada, u. k. frogs and etc. they also sent their ships to this region to conduct freedom of navigation operations in line with their in the pacific strategy. so it's not

only do united states that has a stake in the pizza. stability in this area is that a lot of countries that understand the state of peace and stability in this area, and they want to show that they care about this by sending their ships to this region. nestor, there are around 2000000. how many people living in china and china is how is the largest trading partner? isn't government simply too dependent on the us putting in the same basket? well, a lot of people are saying different things. some people are saying that we are too dependent on china, and at the same time, they also people criticizing the tony's government for depending solely on the united states. but the real situation is like this. you know, our relations, which china is quite complicated, are on the same, you know, on the one him, chinese, our number one trading partner and probably number one or number 2,

destination for our outbound investment. and that is the fact that we cannot deny. but at the same time, china is also our only source of threat. and that is also the fact that we have poor, we have to reckon with. and when china is strengthening taiwan to such a degree, we have to look around and see who else can provide. tie one with support, and we see the united states and we see other democracies. so this is what we can count on. if there's going to be more hottest hostility in between taiwan and china, we need to unite the federal democracies to come to taiwan support. and i think the support has been increasing. if you look at the statements of g 7 or nato summit, or you summit or other platforms of the 2 plus twos, you can see that there are more and more discussions of taiwan issue. they all talk

about the importance of pieces stability over that. how a st indirectly, they are saying that chinese military pit against taiwan is unwelcomed. so this is the situation. we see, we not only rely on the united states, we have more and more support from federal democracies. but you see any scope for negotiations. achieving anything with china going anywhere with china. i mean, you mentioned before that we have these kind of 2 or most implacable opposites. we have she gym, paying, and the chinese convers communist party thing that adamant they want to, as they put it, reunify with taiwan. in taiwan, we have public opinion, only a vanishingly small percentage of people want to unify with china. how do we resolve this without war? ah, there's a lot we can do. i'm not 100 percent optimist. but

i always try to see the kinds of opportunities are out there. and i think the best opportunity lies in taiwan is self. high. one is the democracy. we are fully open to all kinds of opinions and ty, once democracy is stable in resilience and as long as taiwan can stay democratic, i think this always a very good future for taiwan. and as long as taiwan stays democratic, we will continue to receive support from the international community. and this is not going to go away. taiwan will be a democracy. and when we go out a petition, you know, by this term of the president, we are going to pass on to our next generation. these very sought it, found it. democracy in this democracy is going to prevail in the long run on the country. if you look at china, a political system, it might look powerful. it might look threatening. but authoritarian regimes my

profoundly weak or look at their domestic issues that they have to handle these days. maybe all of a sudden the chinese people will say that no, this is not what we want. we want something like ty one. so you counting on the chinese communist party collapsing and democracy coming to china. is that your greatest? no, that's not what i say. and i'm not going to predict, but we have faith in, ty wants democracy, as long as we add them real quick. i think we will be doing fine. the chinese military threat, this air that is one fact that we have to reckon with and will continue to beef up our defense capabilities so that we can defend ourselves. but at the same time, the chinese military threat is there. and if the chinese military trip, i guess i want is unwelcome, not only by the time when it's people, but also by the world enlarge. i think the international community will come together and tell the chinese leaders that you a minute. terry against pie one is not a good solution. joseph, woot,

thank you so much for taking the time. speak to d w today. absolutely welcome. thank you. ah, ah, with

who with a little help from his friends, the re election of boris yeltsin. russia 1996 the players of a legal president, a group of aspiring oligarch communist agents from the soviet era and the u. s. government, the stuff that makes an epic political thriller in 15 minutes on d. w. who in good shape don't be afraid. for some. ready that's easier said than done. you can drive our thoughts and behaviors. so the question is,

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