and changing mr. and when he's not working, because to understand the holiness of whiskey in 60 minutes on d w. m. what secrets lie behind these walls? discover new adventures in 360 degrees. and explore fascinating world heritage sites. d, w, world heritage, 360, get the app now ah, 6 months off to war erupted in europe. there are growing fears here in asia. that conflict could be coming here too. so i've come to tie, want to work with a local team here, and speak with foreign minister joseph woot. about the surging tensions with china

is this region on a slippery slope towards a devastating conflict? and what is tie one doing to avoid it? just if we thank you so much for joining d, w and taking the time to speak with us. we're speaking just as another sign of the tensions across the taiwan strait. a chinese drone was flying over one of the outlying islands, very close to the chinese mainland time when he's troops fight warning shots. what are you trying to say with those warning shots and how do you interpret late? what are the drone flights, which is so persistent? it seems, what are they trying to achieve for the, the drones flying over human. specifically, the chinese are trying to engage in cognitive warfare. they want to shoot some things into show in their social media. to show that the company soldiers, i competent things like that, and therefore the chinese will continue to do it when they find that those kinds of

footages are useful for them for their domestic propaganda. but i think that's just a small part of why china is trying to do to tie one. if you look at what china is trying to do with taiwan, it's a large picture of their military ambition over us. for example, if you look at the 1st part of august, they conducted missile test and then large scale air and c exercises and also cyber attacks, disinformation, campaign, and economy corporation. so if you put all this together together with the drawings, determines as to our, our islands, this is part of their playbook in the future. invasion of taiwan, the minister we, we've seen during the course of these exercises. and since the exercise has also ostensibly finish that china has been defining a kind of new normal is the expression that traversing the, the median line of the taiwan strait more frequently. how is taiwan going to be

responding to this new norm? this is a tough situation for us. i must be very frank about this. even though the nice government has already announced the end of their large scale joined military exercises. but their military activities along the power street or around taiwan has not stopped there, continued ply, they are in place and sailed their ships to the waters war airspace near ty, 12 patrol the area we're trying to upset the status quo when we when we recorded their air activities, the hip between 5 to 15 airplanes across in the medium line of that went straight and 2 to 3 times of that number of sorties. conducting air exercises either in the northern part or southern part or pie was a d i z. so the kind of disturbances to us or aggression against high want is still

there. so even though with the announcement of the end of large scale military exercises, the continued to do it. and if you look, look at their ships coming closer to one this they have between 5 to 8 mini cherry ships come in very close to tie one right before the 24 miles 24 mile. let me see adjacent water life. so the situation is still very tense and we have been keeping alert. and this is the situation that we say. china is trying to destroy the state school, or at least a symbol of the same school, which is the median line of that that went straight. you know, the medium line of how a street has been there for decades, safeguarding peas, this ability over the power street. and without the pass agreement, the 2 mini terrorists are going to come very close to each other in a chinese are coming so close that it compressed the depths of our air depends any

can create a very dangerous situation. ah says, quote, cross the poet street has been seeing us the interest of all parties concerned in this area or globally when china is trying to destroy the status quo, is not in the interest of us or the international community. mr. you talked about the median lie about china says they have never agreed on that. does that mean this on official demarcation line is not there anymore? we wish that or i should say we, we hope that it's still there because he's being there for decades. st. guarding pieces the ability of course, that one st. ah, the chinese has this long plane in destroying the same school there military spokesperson last year or last june, said that there is no such thing as a medium line of straight in this year. the spokesperson of the ministry offering

affairs say that the whole power straight is china waters is not international water. it belongs, china's sovereignty. and china has a sovereign jurisdiction over the power straight. but i went straight, in reality, has been international water for a long, long time. and therefore, the chinese have this point to make sure that its claims can support its military activities. and this is exactly what they are trying to do. if there's no such thing as a medium lined up the power straight and that's why they're in place cross the medium line. and these kinds of activities are the symbolizing. and it's provocative and can be very dangerous and we oppose it. and i think the international community, especially coming from the federal democracies, they're all opposed what china has been doing. now you've described the exercises had been taking place and you describe this kind of ratchet effect of great attention across the straight that you describe. the exercise is

a kind of rehearsal for, for an, a potential invasion. what is your sense? i, you concern that invasion really is potentially coming and if so, what kind of a timeline do you currently looking at? well, i can comment on the timeline. but if you look at the chinese statement, the statements coming from their senior officials. they've been saying that the taiwan belongs to china and they want to unify with taiwan peacefully if possible, and by force, if necessary. and this is not only some officials, it's virtually all officials are talking about this begin from shooting himself. and in order to substantiate these kinds of clean, i, there been consulting military exercises along the time, a straight or a route tie, one for a long time. if you look at the trajectory of their military threat against high one in the last few years, you see more and war chinese airplanes there sort. he's coming close to our

a d i z. and the flying closer and closer to taiwan and their ships also increasing in number, creating threat scenarios. so if you put all this together, you see that the chinese seems to be preparing for a war against high one for what they claim unification of their country. so what they were doing in the 1st part of august, which is exercise according to their playbook against i one, let me say it again. they fired missiles to the waters near tie one. they conducted very large scale air and sea exercises. they conducted cyber attacks against high one. they conducted this inflammation campaign against high one in, at the same time, they also engage in economic corporation. so put it all together. this is what they want to do to taiwan when they want to invade taiwan. and all of these exercises

were response to nancy pelosi is visit here at the beginning of august. when you reflect on that visit, there was a debate about whether it was the right thing to do was worth it for all of this. let me make a clarification. the chinese were claiming that the speaker pelosi visit to taiwan is something that they need to respond to. a speaker close his visit to taiwan. he just one of those strings of the visitors come, he's with high one. and there was presidents, for example, newt gingrich, also visited taiwan before. and we have so many senators and congressmen or senior officials visiting have one from other parts of the world. and from this you can see that china just use this as a pretext to launch the military threat against taiwan. and what i would say is that the speaker pelosi specialty wanted some more ill booster for the town. as people pie one has been facing the threat from china for all these. hein and if

this any one want to show their support for taiwan. he or she is heidi, appreciate it. as speaker pelosi as inaudible american liter and her willingness to come to tie want to show support to the town as people. i think this is a great thing for that. how many people to see and tony's people throughout surveys or through real actions. they showed their enthusiasm in war. come in the speaker, an after speakers visit to taiwan, even though with the chinese military threat. the more people want to come to how wanna show their support. and you are seeing some visitors into one at this time. because they want to show support to taiwan. and all these kinds of show of support to tie one are highly appreciated and for the chinese claims, i think we need to clarify that chain. i just want to find the pretext. if they don't find a pretext of speaker poses visit $21.00,

they will find something else and they can always find something else if they can find speaker policies for $2.00 to $1.00 as an excuse long, such large mean serious skill exercises. i think they can find many more excellent, many more excuses. so that's just the chinese authoritarian way of doing things. and let me tell you in a very frank way, the chinese military threat against high one will not stop tie one from making more friends. and at the same time, it will not stop international friends to come to taiwan and show their support to us. mr. what is your assessment of russia? the invasion of ukraine people have been calling it a wake up call for taiwan. what lessons are you drawing from how the war is unfolding? this is a very interesting question. at the same time we see the war in ukraine is still going on. we also the,

the chinese military threat against high one increasing over in the european theater. we saw that back in 2014 russia took. ready hold of crimea, and the world response was not enough to stop russia from going further. and now we end up a war in ukraine and in ukraine we saw that was truly unfortunate that a democracy or some in country that was under attack. my uncle dory tyrann regime, but the ukrainians were showing their bravery by defending their country defending their democracy. and the kinds of bribery also attracted lots of international support. so that is inspirational to the county people because we understand that the, the chinese can also do the same thing to tie one in my that time we want to show to the international community that we are just about the same thing. we are,

for every, in fighting for our country fighting for our democracy, fighting for people and fighting for our democratic way of life and in east asia. if you look at a longer scheme of political events. hong kong is something that we need to keep in mind as well. just a couple of years ago, way in the chinese government was imposing the national security law on hong kong to take away every bit of freedom away from the hungry people. a lot of people around the world asking is chinese government going to stop at hong kong or who is the next? and at that time with other people already talking about, tie one might be that next. and i think the story can go further. is high one going to be the last target of the chinese already tyrann expansion. i will say no. the reason is very clear. china also clamps east chassis and their big latino

miniature exercises will sending their ships to the dispute at water. china also claims south china sea and their dainty patrol of the south china sea, either by their bumpers or by their worships is so frequent. the stage is shina limited. what is the chinese ambition limited to east china, c, thomas trade and the south china sea? i can tell, you know, if it's not stopped, china already signed a security agreement with the solomon islands, which is very far away from china. and if we don't stop it, the chinese government is going to say more security agreements with more pacific countries. remember, the chinese leader has already said the pacific ocean is big enough to accommodate china, india, and he says that's whole ambitious. they are in, i think, limited to the in the pacific region or the pacific area. i would say know,

if you will get the naval basis they are building in cambodia in yama, in pakistan, in sri lanka, or the way to what you bought. i think the hip global ambition and the expansion of dollars hearings of always is at the cost of democracy. and i think is the time for the democracy to unite to stop the authoritarianism from expanding further into the how seriously is taiwan taking this threat in military times? i mean, we've heard very recently. taiwan is increasing its defense budget by almost 14 percent from 2022 to 2023. but that still just take defense spending to 2.4 percent of g d p. if we compare that with united states, it's been 3.7 percent israel, which faces maybe a similar of existential threat. 5.6 percent. how, how is it enough for tie one to be spending less than half of what israel spends on

this defense? this is a very good question. we understand that depends if it's not free and it may cost a lot of money. and therefore, if you look at the increase of our military budget in the last few years, it's been increasing staffing and other than increasing our military budget. we also conducted the reform of our miniature strategy. for example, we have already established on all our defense mobilization agent, see responsible for designing how taiwan came mobil, icy cell for the homeland defense. and we also acquired a symmetric weapons into discuss with united states how we can best approach the strategy of as a mattress as a matrix to be. and this is a kinds of things that we are looking at. and we of course understand that the more military budget is needed in other than the regular indian terry budget. as you saw from the press, we also have

a special budget that is used for items like missiles or jet planes. so these are what we tried to do and we understand the importance of this and the government is civil and determined to increase our military budget. how do you think the people of taiwan need to kind of anticipate maybe spending here needs to hit the 5 percent of gdp kind of range sort of comparable to israel? well, if you look at the increase of book, high ones economy in the last few years, ah, the kinds of increase now we have is already substantial. and what i can tell you is that the gobble is determined to continue to increase our military budget. and at the same time, it was tie one is very, very dependent on the united states for its security in terms of providing weapons and also the sort of implicit promise of support from the united states. but i want to talk about what we've heard from president biden over the last year or so on. 3 separate occasions and joe biden has said, yes,

the united states would defend taiwan. going beyond the official us policy only for the white house press team within 24 hours. having to walk that back and say, oh no, nothing's changed. it's exactly the same. how does that, how does that make you feel the sense of complete confusion about the u. s. policy coming from the president himself? what we're confused. we are very clear that that the pencil pay one is our own responsibility. and we also are very clear about what the hell are relations at face. that how long relations act say said the when id say he's obligated to provide taiwan with defensive articles. and the u. s. has been living up to the commitment of the power relations act, and we appreciate that very much in the last few years, our relations was dividing. the ministration has been very wealth in going there

strong and we have been discussing pi wants defense, need the kinds of defense strategies that taiwan will need to be able to fit in the self. so we don't doubt on the us come in and to tie one is being very clear and i need to tell you once again, the defense of taiwan is our own responsibility. if we are not committed to our own defense, we don't have the right to ask others to sacrifice in under these kinds of circumstances . we need to show that we are determined to defend ourselves. and it just like the case of ukraine. it's only the ukranian people showed their determination to defend themselves. now you can see the flooring of international support for ukraine, and that is what we are looking at to. yes, but, but i want to return to biden's comments because you say you're not confused, but i'm confused. many of people are confused about what, why joe biden said that said something that we have promised to go beyond what was

really promised. how do you interpret that? is he creating a kind of next level strategic ambiguity? is he having a senior moment? is he on top of things? what's your interpretation? what we have been working together with applied in the ministration as a whole? and we've been speaking to a senior officials, what the u. s. policy is what the united se supports will be. and this kind of real situation as no ambiguity to us. and we understand that the u. s. is committed to providing weapons to taiwan for taiwan. self defense in the us is also seriously engaging, tie one for security discussions. so these are what the united states has been providing. and we will continue to discuss with united states and what we would need in other than that. you should probably also look at the u. s. presence in this region. and the way they showed their presence in this region. just

a couple of days ago, you saw to us ships saving true the come i straight. that is the way the united states is showing its presence in this region. and by doing that, i think the us is showing is commitment to a piece. instability in this region, and it is not just the united states that is doing that. we saw strongly canada, u. k, frogs and etc. they also sent their ships to this region to conduct freedom of navigation operations in line with their intro pacific strategy. so it's not only do united states that has a state in the piece that stability in this area is that a lot of countries that understand the state of peace and stability in this area. and they want to show that they care about this by sending their ships to this region. nist are, there are around 2000000. how many people living in china and china is how is the largest trading partner? isn't you carbon? simply too dependent on the u. s. 15 eggs in the same basket. well,

a lot of people are saying different things. some people are saying that we are too dependent on china, and at the same time they are also people criticizing the ponies government for depending solely on the united states. but the real situation is like this. you know, our relations, which china is quite complicated. on the same, you know, on the one him, chinese, our number one trading partner and probably number one, what number 2 destination for our outbound investment. and that is the fact that we cannot deny, but at the same time, china is also our only source of threat. and that is also the fact that we have poor we have to reckon with. and when china is trenton in taiwan to such a degree, we have to look around and see who else can provide. tie one with support, and we see the united states and we see other democracy. so this is what we can

count on. if there's going to be more hottest hostility in between taiwan and china, we need to unite the federal democracies to come to taiwan support. and i think the support has been increasing. if you look at the statements of g 7 or nato summit, or you summit or other platforms of the 2 plus twos, you can see that there are more and more discussions of taiwan issue. they all talk about the importance of peace and stability over the street. interestingly, they're saying that chinese military threat against taiwan is unwelcomed. so this is the situation. we see, we not only rely on the united states, we have more and more support from federal democracies. but you see any scope for negotiations, achieving anything with china going anywhere with china. i mean, you mentioned before that we have these kind of 2 or most implacable opposites. we

have she gym, paying, and the chinese competence companies party think that adamant they want to, as they put it, reunify with taiwan. in taiwan, we have public opinion. only a vanishingly small percentage of people want to unify with china. how do we resolve this without war? ah, there's a lot we can do. ah, i'm not 100 percent optimist. but i always try to see the kinds of opportunities are out there. and i think the best opportunity lies in taiwan is so high. one is a democracy. we are fully open to all kinds of opinions and tie wants democracy is stable in rosie and, and as long as taiwan can stay democratic, i think there's always a very good future for taiwan. and as long as taiwan stays democratic, we will continue to receive support from the international community. and this is

not going to go away. taiwan will be democracy. and when we go out a position by this term of the president, we are going to pass on to our next generation. these very sought it, found it. democracy in this democracy is going to prevail in the long run on the country. if you look at china, a political system, it might look powerful. it might look threatening. but authoritarian regimes might profoundly weak or look at their domestic issues that they have to handle these days. may be all of a sudden the chinese people will say that the know this is not what we want. we want something like taiwan. so you counting on the chinese communist party collapsing and democracy coming to china. is that your greatest? no, that's not what i say. and i'm not going to predict, but we have faith in taiwan democracy as long as we add them real quick. i think we

will be doing fine. the chinese military threat, this air that is one fact that we have to reckon with and will continue to beef up our defense capabilities so that we can defend ourselves. but at the same time, the chinese military threat is there. and if the chinese military trip against high one is unwelcome, not only by the power people but also by the world, a large, i think the international community will come together and tell the chinese leaders that you a minute. terry against pie one is not a good solution. joseph woot, thank you so much for taking the time. speak to d w today. absolutely welcome. thank you. ah, ah, with

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