a seal, the magic discovery of the world around you. subscribe to d w documentary on youtube. a year of taliban rule in afghanistan and the country is on its knees. un experts have highlighted extrajudicial killings, kidnapping, and staggering repression of women and girls. all this on the fastest meltdown of a country's economy in modern times, with millions at risk of hunger and starvation. my guess this week is how senior se, former minister in the last afghan government swept aside by the taliban. she fled

to mchale some comic of the takeover, and she joins me in london as a refugee. does she feel her country was betrayed by the west? it was a decision of the international community. he came together, we left his gap. now we're that the palace term, despite all the human rights abuses, is there any alternative to engaging with the taliban? should the international community recognize them and released the countries frozen funds? what would it take for her to consider going home? oh, i've seen a toughie. welcome to conflicts on. thank you very much for their paternity. when you look back at the fear and terror that script cobble last august, august last year when you escaped. what images come back to you from that time and certainty?

horror unexpected issues. people without any vision. without any err, assurity confused fair noises of gan children crying mothers carrying out their children. he pair lying on the road close to the airport. unforgettable scenes. very and forget, i think never, never, even now when i imagine it, i become shocked for a very little time and i think how hard human beings can be, how tough to survive through that kind of time. up until the last minute you didn't

know whether you were going to survive. did you? did you think you might diver at the airport in the chaos? ah, i did. in fact, at the beginning, i was expecting what we were hearing and that things have changed. so that is why i did not decide to leave on the 15th of august. when you say things have changed what things that the taliban were different. that's what we have been hearing. that's what we have been hearing that taliban have chickens and nonsense. and fortunately they did not on the change, not only had change, but they had become far, far different and inconsiderate than before. over the last year, the u. s. has documented persistent allegations of extra judicial killings,

disappearances, arbitrary detention torture by the taliban. are they in fact more brutal and more cruel than they used to be? i think there they are due to their analysis and due to their reports due to their communication that i have from, from the women or the women who have been targeted most seriously is the you and human rights office put it recently. nowhere else in the world has there been as widespread, systematic and all encompassing an attack on the rights of women and girls. every aspect of their life is being restricted under the guise of morality. you said last year, african women will fight for their country until the last drop of blood. now, how do they fight that? that's what i say. how do they fight that treatment from the taliban? they fight like the way today. you see me in front of yourself talking about it.

they fight like the way they are presently. with the closed schools, giving hope to the girls who are in the 2nd grade school. he quit school secret schools. they are fighting with the writings, which they are doing through communication with their allies like us. they fight through still taking their courage and knowing that they will be killed. they will be damaged, they will be hurt. standing for a demonstration, they are really fighting it. and i'm sure we will fight it again once again. we will all fight it till the last drop of our black, 5 separate us administrations failed to defeat the taliban militarily on the battlefield or change their ideology. what makes you think that you can do any better than that?

i think no one tried ever to know the reality on the drought into really put a very clear framework of what is solid bonds definition of a slow. what is darla? bonds? vision for women. are the african women, the only women in islam ec society though? so they can really compare with the other islamic countries in see to day, the countries in our region are announcing the female pilots. whereas in afghanistan, in the last 20 years, we had all those initiatives which today some of the countries are announcing as an achievement, being a miss lamb, it can't. but is any of that going to make a difference to the taliban?

is that going to change their behavior? i think colorado have to consider again the re in vision in the finish and office long. it's not what to beefy, but it's what in the ality, the definition of islam it and once they consider that, definitely it has to change. i will not have, they will change. it has to change. they must change. we've been seeing reports that may be in their ranks. people are not in agreement with the leadership about particularly about girls in education, secondary schools for girls. a lot of them would like to see go studying in secondary schools. do you believe that there are different opinions within the movement within the taliban movement? totally agree. because just last week we heard that in one of the provinces, and in course the people have stood and they had urged to open schools in be also

in communication with the director. they opened the school, but again there was a command for them to close the school. so there is a difference of opinion within the different groups. if not on the, on this, within different structures, definitions and ideas. they are not at a status where they define the structure at one level, you feel betrayed by the west. by america. it was rather a hasty decision. things could have changed far better if it would have been considered thoughtful and very seriously and cautiously thought about how the people was lot would be least harmed from this decision. the international community had been inconsiderate in the decision that they took. they took with the hasty departure,

a very hasty departure. but didn't you know when the deal was signed? because the deal that donald trump time with the taliban didn't contain any guarantees of rights for the afghan people did. in fact the whole deal was negotiated over your head, wasn't it? exactly? no one was in caught, no one was aware of what the deal was in. that is why the question comes that. who is responsible for that? because as a piece, building person as a piece building stood it. i think all the relevant stakeholders have to be involved when a piece deal is make. it was not the case in the you heard a meritus reasons for leaving the us and its allies gave you 20 years, the lives of their soldiers. they gave you the and know how the skills schooling

for girls a right space system that has now been trashed by the taliban. isn't it true that the west gave you a big chance? could you have made more of that chance in the 20 years that they were there? i think it was not only a scanner con who was given the church because it was a decision off the international community. they came together, they left together. now when does of gala found found? what was of galilee thought on decides if action which they needed to take. and that is what they have been trying to faith in be have been easily trying to illustrate and say that what is the people off of scanning idea? what is it that they want to pay? so that is why the decision, what not was not a decision. the decision which was taken was the international community,

this decision that to be left after pumping in athens and billions of dollars, some of which we use productively in the country. but huge sums was siphoned off to warlords and corrupt officials when huge sums went missing. i, i won't say that it's not true. it may be true, but who has really monitored? where has those piles in piles, and millions and millions have really gone. who has really seen other port, which has come inside afghanistan in how has it gone outside of goodness? where is the real proof that we have that didn't you see your colleagues in government and you see big houses, big cars and juicy evidence of money that they could not have earned legitimately. of course i have seen, but it was not only then,

there were groups who were supporting them because within a system and then specifically the international system, definitely there is a group like them who support them. how do they move forward if they were not supported? you said recently, what have we done to deserve this? what happened to afghanistan? what could afghans have done differently, but might have avoided what happened to them? to be very honest at the very local event at the very public living as someone who has started some of fatty grass root struggles till being a member of the cabinet. the people off of the sacrifice, the people off of dana sand dedicated their lives, their time, the talent they are you year women, they're girls. they could not have done far what they have done to day. so

that is why i had said it, and i will say that the people off of amazon did not deserve what happened to the people. every one had a small little life. every one had a small little house. every one had a small, little earning. now, how much are, how many or what graph of the percentage of the people of a gallon would have been evacuated? so 5 percent, 10 percent, 20 percent, maximum, 25 percent. what about the rest of the 75 percent? look at what disaster corporate economical crisis, natural disasters have brought. why had not the international community been considered about the lord of refuge? who would like to leave their country known? i would never like to leave my fatty very simple simple tent,

which was my own self unless i had to unless it was a matter of life and i at least or unless it was a matter of living for leaving. so the same like so many the people of afghanistan could have done, might have had them more than what they put in this is what i'm thing. as public you said recently the world has forgotten afghanistan. you were quoted earlier saying that, but that's not really true. is it, i mean, humanitarian agencies in the us already stretched of work tirelessly to bring whatever relief they can to the country, haven't they? but this has been one of the worst economic meltdowns in history. did you have any idea how bad the situation was going to get the can nominally i had in that is why i said that the world has a forgotten of kindness and i am saying it's because it's not only

a matter of humanity and 8. yes, i was saying humanitarian aid till the 1st day to 4 or 5 months, but it has been a year now. so what is the midterm in long term program, but the world has reached 18000000 people, almost half the population with food cash, livelihood support. the organization works in all 34 provinces and has distributed food to 800 distribution centers. that's not nothing. that's not forgetting afghanistan, is it in that latin? that's not bad. about me. that's how many families have supported. i'm in contact with families who at night they dip the dried bread in water and in the morning they feed their children. so that is why i am saying that it's not only giving them there has to be midterm in long term

programs. in that was what we were planning so that the country could at least take a hold on dance of themselves. the systems had been developed in a small little initiative had, have been started in today. they are all stop. so what are the people doing now? they are surviving. they are waiting still. ok w if you will give us biscuit this country will give us shelter. but now, do we want all the time of gamma sound enough? can people to be a burden on the world? well, let me ask you this. so thought no country has given the taliban formal recognition because nobody seems to trust them. should they not be recognised internationally? wouldn't that be a start? isn't that the minimum necessary to keep the door open with the taliban? for me, this is not important that carla barley recognized or not for me. what is important?

it's public. well, let me put, let me put the clergy one part and is that how much access those widows who have lost more specifically in the last 20 years? they are male members. how many families in the last 20 years do we have that they are led by females? what is that they need? what is that that they need? and how can we provide that? this is what is a priority for me as a women and as a women who have been a part of them in who knows their problems and difficult. how important is it that kind of stands reserves which were frozen in the west, are unfrozen and put to use within the country? we're talking about $9000000000.00. 71 leading economists have said these funds are critical to the functioning of the african economy. quick question,

should they give the money to the taliban, or not? on condition clairmont monitoring account, mutual accountability in last result and impact. what is it with the public will get? we give a $9000000.00 on the top when you go and ask a women in a village even 20 when they give even $20.00. they have system piles and piles of things to us. so what is the gap between the $90.00 and $20.00? clear monetary, mutual accountability and follow, that is what is required. you can bypass the telephone, can you otherwise no a get through the country director for the international rescue committee. vicki akin said the only solution to this crisis is to find a way to make the economy function that requires cooperating, or at least engaging with the taliban. she right. of course,

engaging with the caliber, but we have to know because where there is a dispute, you talk for me engaging is talking, engaging is dialogue. you really have to know and talk what the knot is for in order to open that. you have to find ways and strategies to open it. so engaging doesn't mean that you have to directly give the money, but you really have to know, how would this money be very efficiently used for the people and for that support of the people? not all afghans are anti taliban ave. to the extent that the taliban has cracked down on corruption, for instance, among some groups that's been welcomed, hasn't it? a u. k. foreign office study which was released in july calculated the taliban, had they put it drastically reduced up to $1400000000.00 in bribes given and taken

every year just just on cross border trade. it in something good and course they did something good. but where did it go now? how is it spent further? who has that report? how has it helped people? how has it more specific any help with that is what i would ask next. and that's the next priority. is it? how does work? that is been expressed as soon as you are a refugee for the 2nd time in your life. your parents fed the soviet invasion in the 1980. when you were a small child, you fled again with your family a year ago. how have those experiences shaped you more for more strong and more ready to be challenging any kind of challenge which will try to demolish my nation and my i did

. what would you do differently as a politician, if you were to return home as a politician, i was never a politician. your minister, you asked him when i was a minister because i saw that within that context within that time frame. that was a golden opportunity for a women to be at a decision making an executive position. because i had advocated for the last 15 years. and that was the right time to execute all the advocacy initiative as a women minister and in the one year that i was, we had quite quite great achievement to see women getting to that point again. of course i hope we will have challenges, but i'm hopeful i will never see. i don't see the day i say that i don't see it

means that is the last day of my life. i'm always hopeful you believe one day you'll go back to afghanistan. don't you what, what has to happen before you will make that journey? what has to change in the country before you go back? there should be a clear foreign policy off of ganeth phone for women, women participation and their participation in the village. not only that, but the international foreign policies have to be very clear and honest and dedicated to the participation of women in africa, which international firm policies, which international firm who's, who's mentioned for these, who have been enough kind of funding there were supporting gender equality, diversity women empowerment they keep talking about. yes ma'am, i need to talk to talk the talk. that is what time they come back to change.

the taliban will change. we discuss this earlier. you think the taliban will change, but they'll take that time over. and one thing they cannot chance, the caliber but they can make sure that carla know that this is a priority for them to move forward. because of kind of thought is that a poor country, they can not move ahead without the international community support. so whenever it comes, they have to say this is a priority, and the definition should be given by the women of the scanner. so we will define our role. but it's only this faith, for example, in the last 20 years, as i said earlier. and again, i would say that in the last 7 years, it was a golden opportunity for the women of kansas on why. because from a very small little space, which is a mother's name in an identity cart, to a women becoming a deputy governor in $34.00 provinces,

which is the local politics. for the 1st time, the women had that fraternity in that was in order to gather all the social and analyze all the social issues of women in connected back with the policy and define it under the name of activity project program. in order to help women men cannot do that. to me, this with, with, with all the tribal issues in afghanistan, the different fiefdoms and warlords, the endemic corruption is afghanistan. really govern the bull by democratic means of course. but if they are more cautious, i belong to a tribal family. i belong to a grassroots family. i'm a person who was the 1st woman in my family who went to farmer school in there are many girls who are following me in people like me. we don't come from somewhere

else. we come from a kind of even language thing week. haven't a government has always been weak enough kind of stuck. i think politically there has been not a clear definition of politics as a civil society act. i don't know what that means. what do you mean? it's like we do politics for people. if there is no support of politics we have, there is no help. if there is no benefit of politics to people. politics says in me, and if people are split, what then? people are split everywhere. it's not only enough canister. everywhere, people are everywhere. so government come how to, how you can work. definitely. if they are, if the cautious, if they consider it, if they,

they find the very real approach to connect with people. i've seen a savvy good to have you on the program. thank you. thank you. thank you very. ah. ah, with

who is passed to global power? the country has been stronger in the international order under the hindu hard liners, prime minister in modi. but domestically the country is increasingly

divided. the world of not in the w. o one continent 700000000 people. oh, with their own personal stories. oh, europe. mm hm. we explore every day life with what europeans fear and what they hope for the focus on european is you know, 90 minutes on d w o sh. i'm to kill that. i think that's hard and in the end it's a me, you are not a lot of to you anymore. we will send you back. are you familiar with this with the

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a major milestone in their life. ice cold pension starts october 8th on d, w. ah ah. mr. d, w. news line from berlin. a growing backlash against vladimir putin plans to step up the war in ukraine. hundreds, arrested in cities across russia in protest, against the mass call of reservists to bolster moscow fighting forces. also coming up on the program. in an impassioned speech at the un general assembly ukraine's president calls for a special tribunal on the.