but do we have any chance of consuming them? it blows both ways. how wind of that climate change in 30 minutes on d. w. a sham referendums in occupied regions of ukraine and more russian troops are drafted into battle. but the protests are increasing across the country. my guest this week has his own unique protest. very spun, very all foreign service veteran resigned in shame the war in ukraine,

the only russian government official to do so in public. what are the chances of putin providing the conflict? he started a black male health breast. it's the only instrument to try to get himself out as the war goes on. how real is the nuclear threat? and why the russian officials believe the west wouldn't retaliate against a nuclear strike from moscow? i respond very off welcome to conflict zone, hello team. before we talk about your personal story, i'd like to deal with some of the latest events going on in the russia ukraine war . let's start with the so called referendums, taking place in 4 ukrainian regions occupied by russian troops. asking people if they want to join russia itself, since no one is going to believe the result. why bother with this?

i think it's like the mystic consent to convince people within the rush it is. all right, and those people in these new creat it's republics. i really enjoy my rush so it's given the government. ready no reason to, to continue the world not to give the people but their song region and so on. so it's do more domestic relations. and you think the domestic population is that gullible, that they're going to believe it. they know by now that russia doesn't hold elections unless it fixes them in advance of it. well, you know, the rest of the asian, which is the main problem, is, has been so far, very different. what is going on, so to speak. so it's only these days,

some of them are starting to understand that the war is much closer than it was than they thought it was. and so yeah. ready government, it's still believing that they can't sell any anything to bit 3 people. we were now we've seen in the last few days after k, also over the partial mobilization, which put in order the criminal says it's drafting 300000 troops to crane other reports say around a 1000000. how much difference do you think these extra troops will make because the failure so far haven't been caused by troops shortages have they, they've been caused by low morale pool, logistics weapons that haven't worked poor command structures. that's been the problem, hasn't moved. yeah, i guess so i believe that these new numbers do a new the come all at once to the front line. they will not change the course,

or they will, can only make it more slow or russia to, to, to the war. because the army that had been being so far, very informed, but in terms of the military planning. so managing duration. and so it's so so, so for now the main superiority by nation say, so oh, the russian army in comparison to the was. ready the numbers, the numbers, so i think they can only fight with numbers. what one of your most powerful criticisms of the russian government that you served is that it's part of a system that deceives itself. is that the military's problem as well. it's been deceiving itself about its capabilities, about its weapons, the state of its preparedness, this kind of thing. yes, sure, sure. this is

a absolutely combo all branches of rough environment. it is all deemed on these lies cells. so cells competing reports and so on. so we can see it by the sea, which is the 1st place. it's just that he missed his own strength and the ability to bring in our direction of the west. it was all great mystical ation. ready based on the information you received from the supplier and doug and service from means of defense and so on. but do russian officials even know where the truth really lives anymore? well, it's hard to say because i think on the very low level people who work really in the field. so they know the truth. but while they're being reported down to it, it's in many ways. so it's no surprise that the decision makers,

on the up on the chain, they sell the information which is not reflecting reality for over 20 years that you worked in the foreign ministry. you said the level of lies and unprofessionalism was increasing all the time. is that what was demanded by the bosses? just tell the gramm then what they want to hear. that's it. yes. yes, because if you report to moscow. ready the situation is not always favorable to us, they might make things that you use won't work well enough and it will. ready make your career prospects less right than you would expect. so everybody wants to please moscow to show that they were being very hard and then you've done some 3 promotions and all. so that's, that's your belief. and you said in may that you had recently seen misleading

information cable to moscow because that's what they wanted to hear. what was that information? mostly it was the, the russia, russian interest, russian positions regarding the world is very widely shared by many countries. that the russia isolated that the western. ready walls and everybody understand the walls for instance, it also goes to the chemical, scandalous about these 3 boys on the boys and. ready for instance, and some other things. so it is, you know, these reports in the, when you, when you have to report the truth, but you have to you guys and so nobody understand blevins. it's a kind of see what the final art you're. you're very scathing about,

the foreign minister said a lover off, did you expect better from him? you say, he said to mind the degradation of the system? well, well he seems you done a lot of illusion where we have to what we see now another symbol of this system which is now denying the reality. so i don't expect anything from anything wrong with the guidelines for them. and i think that. ready will. ready see, the collapse of this is really collapse. yeah. but i base based on what all the lives that they've told they suddenly realize, but nothing is true that everything's going wrong. and it's too late to do anything about it. is that, is that the scenario that you foresee?

i believe that it is all, but it depends on the war and, but i don't see russia can achieve the release of this. this can be used on the western countries star, sublime and you bring it all the way around this depletion. well, i'll just be doing the way in all other scenarios, you will have to retreat. you will have to bed down and down. that will be very hard blow in the run up to the invasion when russian diplomats all over the world. busy were ridiculing the idea of war. did you know the putin was going to invade the us knew about it last thought him and said so did. did you noted people in your embassy? no. this was going to happen. no. well, it was the information. the decision was not disclosed. ready almost

anyone. so it was only personal guessing whether you will decide to wait or not. i personally didn't believe it because i would foreseeable the consequences that they would do. ready with house, i was pretty sure that law school also has this knowledge that this understanding, but evidently they didn't. evidently, they basically believe that they were, as i said, how moscow lied to its own embassies as well as to everyone else. oh, well yeah. i would say. ready like they just don't tell anything that they don't want to tell. and they the embassy just the same for that you said what disturbed you most in the russian embassy was the casual way. some of your fellow diplomats talked about nuclear strikes against the west, even though they worked in control. did they have no idea how these nuclear strikes

that they were talking about might lead to world war 3? or the consequences of that? you know, these very dangerous thing is that the april or boasting about this stuff to do it you. ready ready to make you prescribe again west again, the 1st place those people are sure that there will be knowledge that the west will just swallows and just to the knees. and let's say let's again, ok, we're ok let's, let's make it really believe that what, what makes them believe that i think it's a very old and common prejudice regarding the western. it's irrational that there were some people. ready very weak and very pamphlets because they're very used to comparable that you know, and that they're not ready to sacrifice like for the war because every war makes it

makes, it makes people funny. and we were known to all the world that we can stop up or as long as it takes. well, it's not the worst, but it and the people who me big items, they also share this with you. at one point you asked your former colleagues if they'd be happy for their children to live in radioactive ruins, and they simply reply, this is about values traditional russian values as opposed to those of the decadent west. so in their minds it's ok to blow the west if the west doesn't share these wonderful russian values because it's all these talk about imagined because no one can really imagine what will be what will. ready be, and they just tried to make themselves more confident about that,

but i believe that some decisions can be made on these are ross avoidance. in the last few days, we've heard more threats from mr. put in more unrest across russia itself. some common trees have suggested that amid all this chaos putins power is beginning to drain away, do you by that scenario. i think that this is asia ranch in the you. k is reading, but this is a last resort weapon. mailed it to me to me. so we have the rest in the, in the, in the region, the front 3 years. that's all i got to do that. those rest and to remodel will be

rising. the coming days. how long can you make as many mistakes and joke up as many failures as he has and remain in par these days in russia? it's hard to say it's hard to say. i think the faith of regime is very strongly dependent on the bill already seem to be hard to offensive. but successful graham did make a blow under the additional, the russian army, the russians are even with the, in the supporters. so he will continue and i will. ready continue get in or defeats by an army that will drill you or you might be. so i guess my question is more about the,

the hotline political and security elite in moscow. they're not exactly known for having a forgiving nature. how much of this, how much more of this will they put up with, do you think, i mean, we've got a long list of failures. we have the failure to take care of the failure to arrest the landscape. the failure to hold on to the territory that they've captured high casualties. hardware that doesn't work, poor morale has to put in has to be running out of political capital at home, doesn't d? well, well, because we cannot judge because we don't have any information. it's a very close, but there's no doubt that the russian that leads us please now, and a lot of them want to to change the john paul. but i think the for now the most powerful figures around which all armed forces, special services deal, stick into him for some reasons,

maybe they don't believe that can resolve the situation. like he was general. were loyal to human, to the very yeah. so all they can come up with the nation to think about the future without themselves without power. so it's very difficult to break it, but it's, it's natural that there will be muslims, and we will, i think we will see it by nea. if you strip away over the lies the accusations, the propaganda. do you in your own mind, have a clear idea why putin started this war? yeah, he started this war because he wants to stay in power. you're struggling for lifetime. and since he cannot sell in. ready any success because the economy is shrinking. if it's going to start with team the

end of the daily life, of most people in russia, as the teacher, or instead, he can only sell some military successes. that's why he wanted to read because it, it all right, later look, raised russian room. so defense rush and interest. and so if that were for some years like it was raining and he just wanted to repeat this premium f sites. so this idea that he felt threatened by nato, and he thought nato countries were trying to, in circle russia. although how you in circle a country that has 11 times ends and is 10 percent or 11 percent of the world land mass. it's difficult to imagine, but all that's nonsense, all that was nonsense, was it that may be a 2nd thing he was thinking about, but i think the interest over securing his personal power into the most important.

we also talk about the needs. it's about possible western interfering listening to domestic affairs in order to instigate progress. but what you have here is they feel the broadest within the country cannot just be created by the despite it's only it's only orchestrated by the west. ready it's another thing, but the 1st reason is just to do semantic to group to power. does he want to fight with nato? i hope not, but you know, he put himself in the position where there's no wood. these black, my own house reps, the only instrument he was to try to get some still out considering how you've denounced the war and the lies of the russian government. how worried to

you about your own safety? i. i don't really think about this very much. i believe that now when i leave it in such a dangerous time that we all must think about the safety of more than our individual . ready so that's, that's my, that's my answer. well, i know, i don't think much about the whole space of key figures, business men, people in society who may or may not have opposed the war have landed up dead recently. many seem to have had an expected accidents or jumped out of up stairs. windows. not a coincidence. is it okay. opperation on the way. isn't there in russia? yeah, it's very suspicious going into the answer. yes. i have no information about that. i think both these cases should be together. but the last question is,

when we come back to the issue of nuclear weapons, because several western officials, among them america's national security advisor, say they've spelled out to the kremlin the exact catastrophic consequences of going nuclear. do you think in any way that will deter putin your control business will not well deter us even worse when both sides a whole lot of this by the session, both parties are reasonable and they don't want to die. and they just want to keep your and the male diversity. ready at the distance in this case, well, it's simulating but that's what is it. he is not quite reasonable or maybe is. ready reasonable, we don't know. so we've done that. he may come off to talk to donaldson,

your strikes. we don't know. so in this case, if we deal with a man or that that if it's ok to start a new one, then determines may not work. if russia really intends to use a nuclear weapon, what would be the signs to look out for? do you get any of these signs now? do you see any of them signs that moscow is reading its nuclear arsenal for use? well, they need to know that's difficult. to show that most boys really. ready reading it troops or dryers. so i believe that the intelligence gathered by the western classes is much more reliable. and they went out and they said, no such science. but i got to read the whole bliss

tempered by the russians. some troops were distributed in all radiation. radiation deals so something, at least they were being read it on your list. i don't know. maybe it's just a propagandist. so i don't know the rhetorical russian leadership is aggressive and a nuclear weapon. my open legs, federal, 24. so if we judge by rhetoric, you can say that they were rated to new tribes since the beginning of the war. but it's not so evident. so whether they will be ready to start the offering that's. that's a big question. that's it appears that some of the fail safe mechanisms designed to prevent nuclear war have in part, been eroded. i'm talking about direct communications between senior russian and american military leaders. these appear to have stopped how dangerous is that

it is very dangerous because those generally, those communication channels very useful in the caribbean process. and they did it aloud to the key military commanders to talk directly with each others that degrees in the. ready war but the, the current situation when both sides do not trust the child, so to speak. the channels me, i'm just working so under those circumstances, how easy would it be for one side to misread the signals or the other and launch a war on a false understanding of the facts is very pro does very probable rational. i'm very, very nervous about any possible science. i don't know,

attack or any other interference on the west as possible into the brain and war. so they can, i don't know what, what, what the read last off, but what they are. ready so they can be very well is we always assume the rational leadership has been very inadequate. cindy, so it's very hard to say how they. ready perceive the information they get from the front line from the native classes so they can decide something or something imaginable without real real reasons for that. so the reason. ready i mean, so what you're saying is that this could all get out of hand very quickly. i would say that if john get out of and but also the rest of that is, well,

i think it is not to native countries do not. so i don't know someone from them to styles or maybe maintain that will do is it rationally it around maybe a 2nd. so an actual and rush hour to to present them. that is the only obstacle at the end of the normalization of relations. the gallons which must be gone with his blows, blows, policies, and down the situation may be like that. i think that may may go to those people. ready to, to rally with the tech vital to try and keep as many communications open as possible communication channel. yeah, sure, maybe not maybe it shouldn't be isolated from he's the reporters that the workers lead the rushman. i leave. it's. ready very important,

but he spun off thank you very much for being on conflict. so it's good to see you . thank you. ah ah, with

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