i'm right and the pillar of sticks and society taxes the right to live in texas and the obligation to pay them both inherent in the sovereignty of the nation states and their citizens. but what happens when the power of taxation is undermined? can't pay, won't pay. taxation and politics starts october 21st on d, w no sooner had president put an amex for regions in ukraine, and his troops were forced to flee from a key city in one of them. and russian tank defences were breached in another. the humiliation wasn't lost on russian commanders with the chechen warlord rams unclear of calling from moscow to use tactical nuclear weapons. my guest this week from key

f is e horse, off cra, deputy head of the presidential administration. has ukraine backed mister putin into a corner where he might use his nuclear arsenal? you may not have any of it battlefield instruments or to withstand it. you graham accompanied boxes. so i think you grant is taking this seriously and the national community has to take it seriously. for now, though, what has changed the fortunes of ukraine's armed forces? i'm, can they keep up the momentum? how do they treat, suspected ukrainian collaborators? and why is the door to piece talks still firmly, shut your job for welcome to conflict on thank you for having it. your forces of had a spectacular month, 6000 square kilometers, cease back from russia. you've just taken one of their key supply hubs and done yet, can you've broken through in the south in care sun?

how important are these latest successes to you both on the battlefield and psychologically wow, thank you for this question. really. it is very important on the battlefield. i mean, if you take the 1st 30 days and months of war, many in the world didn't believe that ukraine will not be able to even to withstand the war. and then to have any major success on the territory of my country. but for all this, more than 7 months of the war, we have proven to ourselves, 1st of all, and then to the world community that we cannot only side with the russian aggression. we can wish that this russian, or we can stop this russian aggression of this country, but we can count on it to have counter advances and definitely we will, we will have all our territories back. so that is my, it is important that we have this content, bunch of numerous directions. we have very good advances, something hockey area, almost all the region of heart you, oh bless,

is liberated by ukrainian armed forces. really, we have good advanced into doing this camera. remember, rush, i wanted to capture all the la guns can this region immediately from the beginning of this opened the board because they were trying to capture it from 2014. not any success is happening for them on that. one is going to look on screen and the same your atl and to solve. i don't care. so, and it's also i'm forced advantage. it's more slowly than the kind of give region, but it's very important. so it's really very important. think for the armed force and really, right, you know, morally more and it's important for our people for each and every ukrainian citizens living in ukraine. we're having to leave you a grain of force unit of time when did what is happening. but all of us transitive, ukrainian people, ukrainian government are, you know, helping each of each of us in our own mentor to bring this victory. and really what is doing, what is done by the office of ukraine is really at my thought of the grain. but i

think in all the world, mr. jessica, what's brought about this stunning change in your fortunes on the battlefield? and can you maintain the momentum of 1st of all, once again is to strengthen mastery of fleet, bring an armed forces. but secondly, this is due to the equipment, ammunition and weapons which is coming into more bigger quantities from our way of western partners at most of the countries or to which we apply to the world to bring us additional heavy weaponry, additional artillery additional tanks. and i'm with the, it goes additional multi loans, rocket systems. i'm now starting to help us. and this is what it really shows. and this is what really helps to our success. because you know, you cannot find only with a, with a, with him, with a gun. you'll fight the more than the war and who made the counter bottles with the more than western equipment. yes, we've got some equipment and heritage from the soviet union. but now we proved

again to us and to all of the world that you crank and forces could muster them order and western nature equipment. and we can fight with it and we can bring with it. so yes, i think we'll, we'll be able to get the momentum. it was very important for us to stop this company must be for the winter time because we'll get as much more easier to make a gun to advance us. judy uh the, the, the, the, the, the time was a force her to do this in the winter time is it's much easier to fortify, to defend. so that's why i'm closest my, everything possible to, to game is momentum and to move forward. how do you expect the kremlin to react to your advances? i'm assuming you don't expect putin to accept these defeats shrugged his shoulders and walk away. well, i think well, well well he hadn't, hadn't had an absence of success on the battlefield. do you know if he's a armed forces? definite, and not the 2nd strongest army to rule se portrayed?

he's armed forces? probably he had the bad reports from his generals, about the strength to cross and armed forces. but as a reaction to these success will be for forces he probably, you know, i had to, to, to use this several instruments. one of them will know what those sam, referendums, which he orchestrated on the part of the cranium territory, which is now temporarily occupied. so he's trying to now to make an attempted annexations and not attempted to make station the same way. he did an intervention 14, that's why, very important now not to get the mistakes of the 1014, when the world community international partners of ukraine. that be very honest, overslept the sections which, which in was doing. so really, this is a very good tire when all international community react negatively to lease some referenda. and these attempted annexations wasn't their position and different formats at different levels, and also helping ukraine to fight the russian aggressor isn't the danger that you

push him into a corner and force him to react. he has, after all, weapon systems that you don't have. i'm talking about nuclear weapons. how do you assess the chance of him using at least battlefield nuclear weapons, especially if you keep beating him on the battlefield. hello, this is not the 1st time in doing this open war when she black mails, all of us, not only great, all the world with it, with a nuclear weapon or early with chemical and biological weapons. well, i mean, don't you think i seriously don't you take it seriously? yes, but take it seriously. we take it seriously now because because look at that he is you may not have any of it battlefield instruments to, to withstand it. you graham, a counter advances. so i think ukraine is taking the seriously and the international community has to take it seriously. after all, we have several nuclear station. the one they have to react. they have to prevent

him from doing these. they have to tell him about the diary consequences. if he even dares to, to, to, to, to use it partially on the battlefield or on some are remote areas. the should look, you should not even think about these. so that's my by prison and talking to the world leaders fee. he asked them, ukraine isn't all nuclear state. we don't have a nuclear, our weapons, you remember, we and we, we were given a way to start in 1094 when our own good will. so that's why we need the protection of the rest of the nuclear powers to protect all the world, the ukraine on the euro, all the world from using the say, nuclear weapon. according to some newspapers, nato is said to have warned its members that russia maybe about to stage a nuclear test or some other nuclear demonstration as a warning to ukraine and the west. do you give any credence to these reports?

well, we'll deliver to all the credible information to reach our partners. western partners are provided to us and definitely they inform you about this. well, definitely i think our security forces and they don't have forces have to be in contact with it irrelevant. bob doesn't have to have this information. at defense, analyst in poland is reported that a train operated by russia nuclear division was bound for ukraine. have you received such reports? well, again, i saw the news in the press. i don't necessarily, i have these official report and adopting that. something which is linked to the press is a real information. but again, we also take a seriously. and if you had had such a report, would you tell me? the problem is, is not the information i should sell for the press. all right, your president has promised you will liberate all the territory that russia has seized. does that include crimea and tell me how you can achieve that goal?

and at the same time, minimize the risks to the civilian populations that are living under occupation at the moment. loca cried major credit. you remember the former, my present invented, which is a cranium platform. this year we had a 2nd assignment of crimea, bledsoe in the online for michael. this for to leaders participated not on the leaders of europe and your atlantic area, but leaders of african countries, asian cancer sled in america conference, and each and every of them said, great media as you. great. and dan has all the right to deliberate to senator, so answering your question. yes, definitely. when my president is thinking about liberating all the territories of ukraine, he means all the characters really, all the territories include in the korean peninsula, in the borders of 24th of august, 1990. while the instruments might be different. so it's, it's, it's, it's, it's too complicated now to tell how liberate the crimea. but definitely these, these, these go, he's on our radars. will we be seeing more gorilla style attacks by the underground

units that you've been training now for some time? they sort of home resistance. they've been a lot of what's in the press, talking to these members of your armed forces. do you believe that these groups can make russia pay such a high cost over time? that sir, they will eventually relinquish the land that they've taken from you. well, if you must make specifically about crimea, will notice that something, something not good for our choice that taken place in the grey me or i dunno what is the origin of these, but definitely not something good for russia but, but, but generally speaking, looker we have a rather strong armed forces, we should know what no one can dull. historically, ukraine has also has an experience of having the getting worse. i think many of the world has forgotten that ukraine has no knows how to fight. where fighting with russia. who fraud essentially, i mean, for more than 400 years, russia wanted to capture your grade and try to get to grading different for must be

the 4 months of usaa sorrowing russian empires. so you, graham, yes. having the a blah, the knowledge, the, the, the experience, how to fight inclusion these with this type of, of, of war which you called greenland were. but the once again look at what our armed forces are doing. i think with the sample with the speed, with the support of international community we're enjoying, i think the recertification more and more obviously, russian troops are your primary targets. do you also regard russia's civilian administrators? those who have been drafted into the so called amex areas. you regard them as legitimate targets as well. look away as to the last country. we're not, we're not fight with civilians. it's russia fight. so when, when, when, when britain and failing to conquer the grain, young soldiers, they try to not only try, they're doing day and night for won't been civilian objects, civilian targets,

and civilian people. we are fighting with the enemies. there are armed forces of russia. if you, um, if you're asking me about those, are those still you great? yes. well, for instance, you know, cooperating with a patient of ours. we have another instruments. we have another instrument, the 1st instruments being sanctions. and by the way, thank you for the international community. was already preparing this sanction for those who were agonizing those sam referendums. but the 2nd option is after when the war each and every who was cooperating with the patient 1st was killing ukrainian. so jim city will be, will be punished, will have she's of her own way of responsibility. that's why my present is now arguing about great international trade. you know. ready for the, for the, for the, for the russians were responsible for killing ukrainian soldier city. yes, that is why we are bringing this issue to the united nations happening in this issue to our international partners. i think this will be the best possible way to

punish and what about report, so there's been summary justice for some of your own civilians and new york times report in august said your special part is our units were killing those ukrainians who were deemed to be collaborating with the russians. is that true? so i cannot command a look, have this english, almost 2000 ukrainians now face charges of having complied with the demons of russian invaders, all your bias, they could get up to 15 years in jail. how certain can you be that they'll get a fair trial on the current circumstances, and we will have a fair trial. i mean, look, i will give you a very, very, very needed example. you know, one really break the areas of northern ukraine, which is a duncan gastorm and we found an evidence of many atrocities made by russian armed forces when the kill and raping. and you know, children,

the women and men. and we brought international inspectors for international criminal court for my partner countries, for experts detect is and they are, you know, where sticking for each and every evidence of these collective crime. but the crime is collective. but the concrete persons responsible for the candidate individuals and this is not only present which will give the general orders, because each and every general, each and every major each and every soldier was responsible. so, believe me will be very scrupulous. again, with the support and help our partners, and we will bring each and every person to the justice which he or she deserves. collaboration is difficult to prove, isn't it mr. job club? because how do you distinguish between those who are forced at the point of a gotten to comply with orders or physically abused or whose relatives were threatened from people who wanted to help the russians? he's a very tricky cases, aren't they? it's a very tricky cases,

but i don't think we have the 1st ever historical example of collaboration. i will definitely use this story just yes, believe me, everyone will. he's now collaborated on he's on your own. the will will be punished . mr. jessica among oh, putins threat sunday nancy ations last week was a, a direct call for you to end the hostilities and talk peace were ready for this. mister putin said, how do you see that offer, you know, from the beginning of this open the war in my mind, my mind might. so there's numerous appeals and speeches and reports and whatever. and my president was ready for negotiations. my president to even greater a team wasn't go straight and with our team. and remember there was several meetings, but we were ready for the negotiations for the, for the fruitful negotiations. not for the negotiations of the russian condition conditions. and you remember, some point of time russians even started to listen to your grand delegation and

even to, you know, the drop proposals of ukraine. then out of a sudden, out of a sudden they return to their british position. you can only negotiate with rational and russian conditions. you can only negotiate one russian red lines. you can only negotiate the notion of the met him. so when now we have genetic, you will hear the narrative of president within himself. oh, he's a grown, he's that rush, he's ready. you frosh, we're ready to a negotiations rush. i would not have descend referendums because you might remember the words on my president back in march or april. if russia days to make this sham referendums, there's nothing to talk to after. so tell me now what is to talk with us if russia captures you legally trying to annex for additional areas for ukraine? what is the subject of negotiations? but hasn't your own president sent out his own piece formula that you know, in advance the russians aren't going to accept and will never accept. i mean,

he laid out 5 points, didn't he? among them punishment for rushes, aggression, and restoration of security and territorial integrity. i'm ruling out a settlement, he said that isn't based on the ukrainian piece formula. so it's this way or no way isn't that the position isn't your that your position. wow, this was a piece formula, but look at where it was, you know, out and it was didn't really, you know, outspoken in the united national general assembly attribute. i really, this is a piece formula, right. who are these form of present ukraine? but at least formula for the whole world, we have our own experience. so we do share with international community. look what this company will be greater, oops, would not happen in each and every country anymore. because when they aggressive feels he will not be panos later on, because there is no legal instrument because you end is not doing the punishment that he's no, you know, a world police can to his punishment. so you know that these 2 have not to happen.

my president share, he's formula of peace, right? you are any war and with negotiations. so sooner or later these, all that kind of negotiations will have to happen and, and we'll be ready to settle down the, the, the, the conditions. i think that would be great. but in this case, negotiation would be helpful. negotiations should bring together our partners together, probably a with ukraine, and that's when the president is telling about security guarantees after the war. you know that he's aggression not to happen anymore, because russia, unfortunately, it will be always aggressive. so we together know to think how these, nobody to end is aggression, to bring to work to an end. but how will make the suppression not happen in the future or us to have the legal guarantees of which johnson does what in order to secure peace in the sparkling of all right, for the moment the, the door to piece talks is firmly shut. isn't it?

for the time being, the only talks would be on the book. let's talk about the issue if we may, of ukraine and nato, which has been there for many years and never goes away nato membership. in august, you criticize the alliance for not giving you any what you called solid prospect of membership. despite your arm is increasing compatibility with nato troops and systems. we know that nato leaders a dodging the question in public of your membership. what are they telling you behind the scenes? are they more optimistic about that in private? well, you saw that on a friday by president. summon an application for ford, ford for nato membership, enough for the, the nato members to, to be, to be thinking about these already. now, how much of a reply did he, he didn't get much of a reply. well, why not? why not? over 2nd, we had to state one of night president of central european countries that they

absolutely welcome in the decision of booker stomach, in 2008. i have to remind you the book or summit, which is on it was very clear that ukraine should become a member of nato, and the 1st instruments would be membership action play. what is happening now. we see that after russia open aggression media, things change local to what this company was, sweden and finland, they are almost entering natal. several protocols have to be rectified, but their internet without membership action plan. so you're going to study ok. we took notice of these, we are now fighting to work. we are enjoying the support and help our nato allies. all of them bring us weapons. we all of them helping us with sanctions. will them bring us to financial assistance? but look, it's high time now to think what will happen after the war. that's why not present the study. yes, let's think about possible entering your brain to nato or now let's what do you think about security guarantees for your grade at this period of time? so we are suggesting lots of, of choices and our partners. no one say no. and you say i didn't hear clear. no,

say no, you great will never become a member of nato the same as the want session. but you didn't hear a yes i did. you, you didn't hear a yes. i that definite to native works of the consensus principal. the one says this consensus discontents will happen tomorrow. but we should look on this now. ukraine. what's the purpose is to nato allies, and i think all each and every of them should think what to do next. as part of a peace settlement, would you ever agree not to join nato? no, that's out of the question. is it? yes, mr. jessica, what is in the end of this war, you can't achieve outright to victory and the best you can get is not to lose. would you settle for that right now with the country settle for that? you know, i like the, the, the, the, the stance which is expressed almost by all leaders of the world course begin to my president. it's only ukraine and only

a grant who will define the scope of victory. what will mean victory for you? and when you hear the narrative that someone is, you know, in the line in your brain to these or that, you know, conditions or whatever, don't believe them, believe me, it's very hard to, you know, to make present landscape, to go to any, you know, surrenders, or to meet any conditions which i'm not going to sign with a national interest of ukraine will fight, will fight of the, in the end as victory of ukraine. unfortunately to no one will tell you now, when will be to speak 3 and how many eliasis still to be sacrifice. but again, we deserve the 7 muscle boards, but only ukrainians. ukrainian president graham people, ukrainian armed forces, who will decide, what is the scope of the cranium degree? you talked about thinking ahead to the end of the war? do you foresee, having to remain a heavy, militarized state for the foreseeable future with security,

a constant priority always on your guard? are you, are you ready for that kind of future? yes, yes, yes, i think it was in it rightly a situation that will never be the same in ukraine and the wrong you know, me tell about that. they did the common this association with some other countries in the world. but look, you grand has its own destiny. unfortunately, yes, and fortunately for us, but after this war, after this victory, ukrainian armed forces will be ever strong. even a mighty war experience, more skillful, knowing how to find with the modern equipment. it's healing to nato standards by the way, you know, when, when what no one will tell you now will tell us now that you are not in trouble with armed forces, whatever we am, wasn't interoperable. where finding out again, definitely not with the 2nd strongest on in the world, but definitely not with the weakest army in the world. so yes, at these experience,

there's experience, we are ready to share. we are ready to be this for, for on of the whole european continent where destined to be here, we will not transfer a grant. so where to, to j not a part of the world. so yes, probably this will be the case for great, very briefly, some experts in the west of suggested that what we're witnessing with the conflict in ukraine is the start of the 3rd world war 3rd world war between russia and the west. is that how you see this conflict? no, this is how williams is this conflict in his narrative. he's forward and you fighting . not only with the whole west, not only with ne gardener, but probably with the most part of the world, except some countries who support in, you know, this is false russian narratives. and probably this, this would be a visual thinking of russia. we are fighting with russia. we are fighting russian aggressive not great. we're starting to, we're struggling with like the war to look at

a 1014. then it started the open face in 2022. we are fighting by our own. we don't have boots on the ground, our armed force as a fighter. yes, to the support of more than equipment, weapons, et cetera. but we are destined to fight lawanda were destined to win to sport. shatka. it's been a pleasure to have you on a comp exam. thank you very much indeed for your time. thank you. ah ah ah, with

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