and the pillar of sticks and society taxes the right to living taxes and the obligation to pay them both inherent in the sovereignty of inflation, states and their citizens. but what happens when the power of taxation is undermined? can pay won't pay. taxation and politics starts october 21st on d, w. i member id everybody, ron young with

hello and welcome from dw is global media forum in bond. my name is karen homestead, as foundations are being shaken all over the globe. d w culture has chosen to look to sub saharan africa where the creative scene is positively booming and attracting, increasing international attention. but this incredible wealth of artistry is too often under cut by a lack of funding, lack of infrastructure, conflict, or even oppressive political regions. which means that artists have some very tough decisions to make, to stay or to go. to what extent can creative industries foster change and developments in their home countries? and how can they have maximum impact?

always gathered, a group of creatives from africa and the african diaspora to discuss these questions. and these are my guests, roberts yog, lannie sent ta more better known by his stage, named bobby y is singer musician, activist and politician from uganda, leader of the national unity platform party, former opposition and p, and presidential candidate. and he says that politics is simply too serious a business to leave it to the politicians. welcome bobby, and thank you for being with us. della gaetano is a writer opinion columnist and a pharmacist from phelps done in march. she fled sudan to germany with the help of the german pen, and she says that art is a living thing. it can't grow in dark rooms and needs space to be freely expressed, accepted, and supported. thank you for being on my left is also a hyundai, a, somebody, he's a photographer from cameroon, who lives and works in amsterdam with over 200 exhibitions in more than 100 countries. she's one of the most accomplished african photographers of her

generation. africa is her greatest inspiration, and as she believes, a continent with matchless opportunities and where everything is possible, welcome all day. and last, but not least, over here on my ride. eke enable a is an award winning director and cultural entrepreneur from lagos in nigeria. he's now considered one of the champions of the emerging emerging new african cinema and normally would veteran. but his documentary, no, you turn just got a special mention award at the belly nala berlin's international film festival in, in early this year. and he says that there is a relationship between migration and the types of films that we've promoted in the past. when forward to your insights, it can ever have, or malcolm, he can. i'd like to start with you because over 20 years ago you set out to leave nigeria to make your fortune in europe, but you ended up aborting the journey. so just tell us what was it that made you

decide to leave? i had just finished my apprenticeship in which i served my master for 7 years. and normally after you finish your apprenticeship, you're supposed to be given seed money so that you can start your own business and, and sometimes it doesn't work out like that. and i just happened to be one of those ones that didn't work out. and i was just about to turn 20 and had nothing. and the reason why i even started into the apprenticeship was so that i can make something out of myself. so i can help my mother and my siblings because i lost my dad when i was to. and then i heard that it was possible to travel to europe by route, and with little or no money. that experience inspired your very 1st documentary film to very personal film that really manifests our central question to stay or to go. ah,

26 years ago. i came to these mile to bows park in bustling there goes along with my friends. our goal was to cross this trip of gibraltar and make our fortunes in europe. in no u turn, he came may, boy, we traces his own path to europe. on his journey, he meets people who just as he once did, are trying to leave africa. but get stranded in different countries along the way. they survived by working on jobs and restaurants, or st. vendors. you brown, with a film about hope, disappointment, and be enduring dream of europe became a boy has also made feature films and offers his expertise to aspiring young directors. he's also part of a support network for african filmmakers. i know you turn his 1st documentary deals with an issue that still very well event today

wanting to so many young nigerians embark on such a perilous journey. ah, ah, what did you learn about young people's motivations to day to go and make and take on that journey? where sadly, 27 years after is still the same motivations is to basically about economics on it's to be as clear about people and seeking for self actualization. it's about looking for a place under the sun where you can actually dream. and it's so sad that young people in africa, especially west africa, do not feel that there's enough space for them to dream in their home countries. and so that's what i found in the film,

and it's really very sharp. and i'm going to go over to you still at gaetano. he recently came to germany, tell us, why did you have to face with them as people normally would? and then fill 1011. it's like a split the 2 countries. and i was a nice and then i become a south. so dennis, i couldn't find myself in flower or in north i still want to be as a sudan if we supposed to unite not to is lit again, 2 pieces off of come to this and, and that was my idea. and i think people not accepted that into sudan like a couldn't express myself. well, am i supposed to keep silence for a long time? so to understand this very complex situation, political situation that's della gaetano has just described a there with its neighbor, with south sudan with its neighbor to the north sudan. let's have a quick look at this for the republic of the sudan as africa's 3rd largest country

. it's capital is khartoum. since independence in 1956, the country has mostly been under military rule. due to armed conflicts between the government and rebels, sectarian and ethnic violence, many millions have fled. recurring droughts lead to crop failures. almost half the population lives below the poverty line. the desolate political and economic situation sparked protest in 2019 o mar alba. sheer was ousted after 30 years of authoritarian rule. charee a law was abolished, and women were briefly granted more rights. a glimpse of freedom. so for journalists and creatives who were hopeful that a civilian government and reforms might be established. but this phase of democratization didn't last for long. a military coup took place in 2021.

since then, protests for freedom and human rights have taken place nearly every day. the republic of south sudan is the world's youngest sovereign state. it achieved independence from sudan in 2011 after years of struggle. 99 percent of the population supported independence in a referendum, but their joy was short lived. the country is divided due to numerous ethnic conflicts. millions are seeking refuge internally and outside of south sudan . ah, disastrous flooding. had led to crop failures. more and more people are becoming dependent on food aid. south sudan is one of the world's poorest countries. it lacks state institutions, especially in the medical and educational sectors. the government has repeatedly

been accused of human rights violations, censorship and corruption. today it's widely regarded as a failed state. now some 4000000 people fled the civil war in south sudan, approximately one will 1000000 of them actually found refuge in neighboring uganda and that is of course, the home of our next distinguished guest. they call him the ghetto president robert tagline. we sent him with better known as the musician bobby whine, born in 1982. his lyrics about freedom and self determination have made him the voice of uganda as youth, almost 80 percent of the population is under 30. in 2017 bobby wine became involved in politics. he opposed to president you very much 70 and his

government who arrest torture or make their political opponents disappear. bobby wine himself was brutally attacked multiple times and arrested. nevertheless, he ran for president in 2021. his campaign burdened by coven 19 rules was targeted with arrests attacks and violence. despite accusations of election rigging, you very much 70 who has moved the country for over 35 years, won the election yet again. a but bobby wine won't give up. he continues to be politically engaged and uses his music to fight against social injustices, corruption and abuse of power with bobby whine, the nigerian african pioneer, an active estrella, cootie one said music is the weapon of the future. and yet,

you decided at some point in 2017, the music wasn't quite enough. what was the tipping point that made you decide to go into politics? after bad experience? about 10 or 15 years ago, i decided that my music was no longer going to be entertainment by edutainment because my chest that he, it had benefited me. it had to benefit those with whom i shared the plate. they get people where come from. so i got involved in the politics because i had been talking about the issue, so for so long and i thought it was about time to act about them. and to also lead by example, protest of any kind, obviously very dangerous work. in uganda, you suffered incredible violence in your presidential campaign. lots of intimidation politics. he replaced under house arrest after the election. what is your situation now and the situation for artists like yourself? the situation continues to be terrible. uganda continues to be under the tight military group of general jo. it was 77 our who took power when i was only 4. yes.

and now i'm 40 and there is no sign that there will be change. we don't only one change for the sake of it, but want to return power to the people. that's why they call us their people power movement and receive people. power is our power will want a situation in uganda. equities in all developed countries where lead as a sovereignty of the people and their people and the 2 monsters where lee does fear to do things that will or press the people because the people will keep them out. so that is the whole idea and our next guest uses visual language to transform ideas of identity of african women. i'm j h o n d a somebody. and we can possibly take a little look at her work here is based in the netherlands. and currently showing at the venice be anomaly in the camera union pavilion. she's

particularly known for her black and white work. your work has been exhibited all over the world. it's recently even been included in the permanent collection of the mama in new york. so congratulations on that. i'm. i'm just interested because you have very much a pan african focus as opposed to a focus on your own particular culture. is that deliberate? just soon as soon as jeff, he can new of course, because i'm african o'clock, but also because i believe that for me the fact of having left very early the distance brought me even closer to my continent to mother of a glendale. and that made it well, photography allowed me to reconnect with africa. who while ela full thought she must bear me off as a talker. if he also allowed me to reconnect with myself or to ask him, maybe not as a 100 percent african but as a woman of the world who lives us home. you know, i don't like to say between 2 worlds. but really, rather with one foot in africa,

one foot in the west, my mom and he on their feet and pianos though you're having a particularly interesting year this year. the be and i live in venice, is a 1st for cameroon. this year, 8 sub saharan countries are actually represented. can you tell me about the significance of, of this for cameroon? i and your thoughts on the african presence in venice allergy in that of him is so, so the venice be an hourly money. imagine that it's one of the biggest art events. it's been going on since 1895. or now we're at the 59th edition. and this is the very 1st time that cameron takes part with its own pavilion example. so it's historic that you still, he see story her and i think as bobby was saying earlier, it's not so much about me as an artist, but it's one country, it's one continent and other artist se, se accounting as in doll, per se, is darcy earth had done,

and that allows others to dream of ear. and we hope that with this kind of participation in this edition of you can see that out of 54 countries, only 8 african countries are participating. so if you can't hear you back to see me, but it doesn't matter what, i think it gives dreams. it allows people to believe me and the yellow thing that i have in. moreover, the theme of the camera, rooney, and pavilion, the time of cameras is very significant because it means that everything is possible and that applicable count from now on if i may or county africa counts, sir, most definitely there possibly even a little bit behind the times as you're indicating bobby back over to you, because uganda is also making its debut in venice this year. i'm sure governments to a certain degree are finally realizing what an important platform that can be your thoughts on, on the role of art and artists for social change. i prefer the mirrors of society.

we are the reflections of what's happening so sad to both. ah, vocally and visually so we are this fox people of society, but in the same way we can be the chief me through present us of so fair to i'm glad you mentioned that. recently, governments are noticing the power of art and particularly in uganda is a very big budget that is put aside to compromise artists and have them meet, represent the voices of society. and you can blame that to the rise of artists like myself. i am now these fear that maybe sooner or later another artist is gonna pop up and do the same or even more. so the power of art has been realised. stella, your thoughts aft is soft power and it is flowing on me slowly and it's making change all the time. and that the way they are to have that feel from their culture

and from they are because it's j mice of be it will, it's read awareness and aware leadership. and i think that that she don't like people to make that trip up there of that a when a song may be to resist, then we do have another special guest in the audience at who is no stranger to our global media forum. and i'd like to go over and see him now big and gets his thoughts. i'd like you to give a warm round of applause and welcome to akin body acting. b. whatever. i forget best known photographer born in od with nigerian rule, a self professed wandering ambassador between cultures and here he is next to me akin body. it's so nice to see you again. thank you for joining us here in von. you exhibit all over the world, your works travel widely, but so do you yourself,

you teach you to re, to widely what are the dreams and aspirations of young artists that you encounter around the world in your classes? what, how and how you try to inspire them. they want to achieve and am we, we, there are the mentors. the teachers are the facilitators. we really try to encourage them. um it's, it's, it's for many of a very tougher, especially as a creative person, a young person. you, i mean, you earn very little, but we really encourage them. most of the people that you're talking about, for instance, if you've got some, some people in your mind are they, are they hoping to make it at home, most human being still where they were born or, or their region in their car on their continent. and this is better than why the case and, and um, she won't be in the like plants. and so we have roots. so as a router, very much a where you are born or where you grew up. so we grow up and then up again and now is much, much easier, especially the digital age or social media slot. so you can really do your research works of survey important to be vague grounded. and then up,

you grow your so often in places like by macro la garza air cigale sch, can you tell me, do you see positive developments there in terms of the actual i do infrastructure and support for all its on location? um i do see um for the future um things to to, to encourage um younger artists in some countries is much less. yeah. other countries is more why don't you have an a huge continent. yeah. we've had been telling before, so um i was just last year in november in compiler, in bobby wayne though. oh, oh town. and they, you notice that the encouragement is not very, very strong. especially for those who really want to be creative and a critical of what is happening on the ground exam. but um it's, it's, it's growing, is it cost of growing or is it pushed up or all the time and trying to yeah, to move forward and upwards. as well, one thing i must say is the music scene is very,

very dynamic and vital all over the continent. so where w really very well done much. thank you very much for those insights. i can, i can add a nice bottling line hello, living in exile here in germany. i know that your activism is even more urgent. so before we actually just get your opinion on that and how social media might be helping you, let's have a quick look at what you're doing. still, gaetano started writing in elementary school. she writes about war fleeing being displaced, but also about hope and great expectations for her home. stella has been fighting for freedom and democracy in sudan and south sudan for many years. ah, with other like minded people, she founded initiatives to support the lives of displaced persons and victims of violence with food donations but also with book donations.

when she fled car to men early 2020, to stella herself, donated around 700 books. the sudanese capital was no longer safe. she had been threatened and arrested multiple times through the writers in exile scholarship program by the writers association pen. she has been living in common a little town in north rine westphalia since march. but her children are still with her ex husband in sudan. she hopes that she can sing be reunited with her 3 boys in germany. i think every mother here in the audience is feeling with you right now, sir. how tough is yet to ration for you in exile as a mother, but also as an artist, to who has this ever intensifying in her call to change things. i, you mandate i and make my children in also already that i'm

a mother in risk. so any time, any think what happened to me so you so foster depend on yourself. and that met me is strong and met them also a strong so now we and yes, going in very tough situation. they even encouraged you like to get out why and they encouraged me, mom don't think about us to be, we'll be okay. so you can go and be said somewhere. and also, well, what i'm really lost now it's my where we speak or, and that a ground a was an active, this being that keep all on the ground and helping people have that initiative. so because i'm thinking that we supposed to break this chain somewhere to help bobby, to become that president we are dreaming about in africa. we supposed to where we

had the dentist and that can help bobby some day dreaming about countries. it's not enough. we have to wear and we have to build our self 30, then we can build our countries, bobby wian. i know that your family has wished you would do it a number of times. i've never any thoughts of leaving you gonna? yes and no. yes. and no, yes, because it's the best way to guarantee that house their life. but no, because it would be a betrayal. betrayal, my assailant, people in your family, my people and it would not make practical sense at the end of the day. because the tyrants, that rule of some countries in africa are empowered with national budgets. they can be queued from any part of the world and kill you on that. very many stories of this im so other than making it hard for my people, they'd rather kill me for more. my de one make it expensive for my family to card in my buddy from the river and take it back home. thus,

you vanish when born and swim, got buried at the end of the day. finding a way to let people dream in their own country. what has your conclusion been? we do young people of africa. we are tired of all of these old narratives about africa. we like what we said, there's no need to keep running away from the continent. we want to stay in the continent and fight it. it's not easy, but we know that we can again, the magic of the people. we just went to our work in the magic of the people and get this been done all day. perhaps you could give your feedback or your response to, to what you get. and bobby have just said, said present 1st. yes, it's very interesting because we are all fighting for the development of our continent for change whether we are here or there. for example, the most important thing is to do it a and above all to do it together. awesome bobby wine. you got a final,

a final message before we i wrap up. it has do our act not only for ourselves, but for others. the best way to lead forever is believe through our that's about the atlas. we can do that. let's do it. i'm going to be happy, right. thanks very much for joining us. then we'll see you next time there at the global with with

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