ah, europe revealed the future is being determined now. our documentary series will show you how people, companies and countries are we thinking everything and making made her changes love, we don't do something. our children won't be able to enjoy fresh air. europe revealed. starts november 3rd on d, w i must go, has set up a pre winter campaign to strike civilian infrastructure in ukraine using missiles and drowns as nato members promised to sent thieves more air defense systems of my guest this week on conflict zone from the berlin foreign policy for him is nato secretary general. yes, dalton burn. how far can natal members increase support for ukraine? go to help t repel pollutants endangered the systems ne dollars so on partners hub delivered,

had ordered him, made a huge difference. so this is one of the reasons why russia has not been able to gain the air is superior to control over their air space over ukraine, as potent issues veiled nuclear threats. how strong as needles deterrence today, and how well as a position to confront security threats of the future, including those posed by china, ah, secretary general suttonberg, welcome to conflicts own thanks more for him, his arm in the past week ukrainian city is far from the front lines including the capital, keith had been waking up to deadly russian air strikes, which appear to be targeting infrastructure in civilian areas. what do you think put in haines to achieve what the strikes i think the aim is to reduce them, the termination of the ukranian people to stand up against the brutal russian

invasion of the country. but i think he will fail. she has failed in all the all the attempts in trying to take control of your claim since the nation in, in february. this demonstrates the brutality of the war. it demonstrates how we see civilian casualties and i will so critical attribute an infrastructure is attacked on it. just also highlights the importance of natal. i need to highlight some partners so that we continue to provide support to that. and last week natal members committed to send more air defense systems and other a ukraine. do you think the new systems will be enough to stop the onslaught of russian attacks with long range weapons including drove i think that the systems we are not providing are making a huge difference. and that will, that made the difference in the shooting down a lot of the russian miss ours jones. but also we will

make even more difference in, in the future because our lives are now stepping off. we have germany has just delivered and very advanced mode done defense systems. but i'm doing the natal defense minister last week we had several allies tonight, the states and those holders, and i'm seeing more systems, but also more ammunition. i'm surprised to existing systems and this is making a difference. other ukraine's are able to shoot down many of the incoming, the sides. on drums, you say that they'll make a difference in the future. what does the future mean to you? because presidents lensky says, 30 percent of ukraine's power stations have been destroyed in these attacks. the concern is winter is quickly approaching. people could struggle to heat their homes . how quickly can the systems get there, especially given? and you've admitted this, there are production shortages on the west. well, the systems ne darlise partners have delivered have all of them made

a huge difference. so this is one of the reasons why russia has not been able to gain the air superiority control over the air space over ukraine. and that has been a big disadvantage for the rest of the troops dropped the operation day. they expected that they were going to take control of space, have not been able to take control of the space over ukraine. this is of course, 1st and foremost because of the skills to the nation of the crating on forces using the defense systems that will do how old soviet types of air defense. what need to alice have done it that we have provided, i'm in the ship to those old systems and then we are also bringing new systems under. the next example is the, is the german system demonstrating that germany is not actually being important to keep it is to, to, to ukraine and they will make them even more difference in the, in the future. reintroduce combing was also the main message from the defense

municipal. so we need to ramp up support also everything from winter coding generators, tense so we can help and ensure that you can, you can operate through into let's talk a little bit more about the urgency for action and i'd like to turn to the battlefield. now, ukraine, as we all know, has been recapturing territory on the front lines in the east and in the south. but there are some reports including today. the troops in the dunbar region had flowed almost to a halt. rushing reinforcements. meantime, have rushed the front line, attempting to break the cranes momentum. how critical do you see this moment right now? not in the future. right now for ukraine's counter offensive as the colder months settle in. some wars are by nature unpredictable. of course, there are still a lot of russian forces capabilities in ukraine and they

have what you have seen of the last 2 weeks and days is actually the, the most thetis escalation of the conflict since the invasion in february. because if you put together the mobilization on the forces that are able to send to the front with the partial with the a league and i'm extension of ukrainian territory and the dangerous nuclear rhetoric, all of dr sense, the biggest escalation since the war. so again, we need to just step up our support. and of course this support has proven extremely important because this also enabled ukrainians to 1st push the russians out of the area around kia and then hold to the russian offensive in don't boss. and then launch a counter offensive where they have been able to regain me, take a lot of territory in the boss and also pushing against the russian forces in the salt in cars on the ukrainian say they need more tanks in order to push forward.

we're sitting here today, we're speaking from the berlin foreign policy forum, germany, a nato member, is facing criticism for not sending heavy military equipment to ukraine, including leper to battle tanks from your point of view. should germany provide the tanks to ukraine? now? germany, hans provided an on this providing a lot of essential equipment to ukraine with advanced defense systems and older advanced weapons and also ammunition and the old allies. her provided a similar types of support on all of us. it was a product armored vehicles and also a lot of extremely important to different types of support to, to do mr. secretary general, i would just like to underscore the urgency that way you have been hearing and i'd like to mentioned a quote, for example from from lot is defense,

mr. and i'm going to read it out to you. now he says, if germany would give to ukraine proportionately what we have given to ukraine, this war would be over. does germany and other larger e you states need to do more? now? we all need to do more now, and that's also the message from the defense ministers when they met last week. and we also saw significant new announcements about more surprise. then we had to realize that so far, what we have done is to mostly provide surprise, surprise for support ukraine by depleting our existing stocks at some stage we cannot continue to do so. so now we need also to ramp up production. and that's also also the other message from the nato. the defense been, there's rules that we now engage biting with the industry to be able to replenish our existing stocks. obama nations or coping capabilities. so we can part of both

or pulled our own. the turns on the fence, but also continue to provide the support to ukraine. i want to talk a little bit more about the ramp up of production and the fact that that is a whole right now. but, but 1st put and says that he will use and i'm quoting here, all weapon systems available to defend territory. this is being seen as a thinly veiled nuclear threat. this week, nato is conducting routine nuclear drills. rushes annual exercises are usually taking place late in october. how high is your concern right now that the russian drills could be used to put nuclear weapons on hiler? we are very close the moment seeing what they are doing. on the v. r. vigilant and of course in special in when they now are going to conduct a new exercise. having said that, the, the risk of any nuclear attack against the use of nuclear weapons against ukraine

is low about of course, the potential impact the consequence is so big. so this is a risk we have to take you to stay. i would do so by conveying clearly to russia that there would be some bad consequences for shot if they use a nuclear weapon in ukraine. and also reminding russia of that the nuclear war cannot be one must never be fault. and we of course, stay beach and moment are close to what they do so far. we haven't seen any changes in the nuclear posture and nuclear redness, but so this is on to constantly. i'm on the car and especially when they now conduct a new crisis. but given the attack on the car street bridge and occupied crimea and early october and ukraine's recent retaking of territory in the country, south and east. do you think personally that a humiliated pollutant is more likely to lash out at this time?

will be careful speculating about the different risks under different scenarios. we need to be prepared for all events relative and that's exactly what the are on the same time. we cannot be intimidated or, or suffer or, or accept blackmailing from russia. because i think that these nukes, or rhetoric, the threats we have seen from rash on the aim is of course, and to course, also to black by loss to stop the providing support ukraine. but if we do that, then, then the piston putin will win in ukraine. and if he wins in ukraine, that will send the very dangerous message to all to the leaders. that when they use military force in a brutal way, violet and muscle law, they will achieve their goals that will make us more vulnerable. it will make the world more dangerous. and therefore,

yesterday disks with all options and this conflict. but i think the risk of electing president putin when it's much higher than to continue to support the ukraine as we do you and 8, members. you have emphasize in them coding here. russia must understand that nuclear war can never be won and must never be thought. do you have any assurances that that message is being heard by putting yes, partly because it has been communicated so many times from ne darlise from also not the states and older. and it's online that possesses nuclear weapons and from the whole alarms. and actually this is also something georgia has subscribed to. so so, so, so, so this is a well known message you've warned of severe consequences such as we will never go into the exact away we will respond partly because that will depend

so much on the kind of attack the circumstances, the context. but also because we will never give a potential adversary the privilege or knowing exactly how we will respond. they know it will be severe consequences and we have repeated up as such as several times over the last weeks. but to all 30 nato allies agree on what the response would be. all new dollars agree on the seriousness of any use of nuclear weapons. and this has been clearly conveyed from me, from also many of the nato allies. second, i think we need to distinguish between the use of weapons of mass destruction or nuclear weapon in ukraine and any attack on the nato allies the tack on and they do all i will of course, trigger article fire, collect a defense schools on to ensure that there is no room for miscalculation for

misunderstanding and must go about that. we have increased on the inter presence in eastern part with eyes increase the redness over the forces. to make sure that an attack on the needs all, i will of course, triggered a response on the lines. i would do that not to provoke a conflict, but to prevent the conflict, to preserve peace. and that's for them to the same as natal done for more than 70 years. faced and neutral or challenge from here from moscow. allied to meet him and he says that he thinks nate, the nato military alliance would not risk a nuclear war and directly enter the ukraine war. even if moscow struck ukraine with nuclear weapons is the right he is not dried because what we have stated is that there will be severe consequences, but we're not aligned out or, or, or gone into detail what kind of consequences they will be. and of course,

we have many ways to respond, and that's exactly what we have communicated while you warn, though moscow severe consequences french president emanuel, malcolm says that french, a french nuclear response to russia using its own atomic arsenal against ukraine or the region is off. the table that statement wasn't very helpful for your deterrence, was it but we have different ways of reacting and doesn't have to be any use of nuclear weapons. what we have stated again and again, is that the circumstances in which nato would consider the use of nuclear weapon remains very remote. but that doesn't take away the possibility of a natal to respond on a wallace to respond if there is use of nuclear weapon. but russia against the graeme. and again, if there is any attack against the need to ally,

we have the whole alarms on article 5 on our collective defense schools. and the purpose of that is to prevent that from happening. russia says that western states support of ukraine. you've mentioned what natal members are sending to ukraine, help make them a direct party to the conflict with needle members supplying the majority of support. isn't it going to be difficult for members to not be seen as a direct party? how are you telling me that we are no point to the conflict. meet meaning that we don't have forces on the ground. we don't participate in the, in the, in the, in the fighting. but what we do is that we provide support to ukraine. ukraine has the right for self defense. this is right which is enshrined in the treaty. every nation has the right to defend themselves against a war over aggression and brutal attack as seen against ukraine. and it's all laws are helping ukraine to pull the drawing for self defense, but that those make us popped into the comp. i'd like to ask you about nato

enlargement, and in particular, ukrainian president followed america. lensky announced a bid for fast track membership of nato. he pointed to the examples of finland and sweden. will you agree to fast track nato's bit in the next 12 months? is something new that the ukraine has, the emission of joining nato. natal position remains unchanged, natal store is open. we have demonstrated that last years with the north macedonia hamilton with those with fin on and, and, and then of course, we also strongly committed the message of every nation has to choose on pulse, including of course, ukraine. at the end of the day, it will be for the $38.00 on ukraine to decide membership rational doesn't have any say in the, in that our main focus now is, is on ensuring that ukraine winced the war. and therefore, all our focuses on providing support to brain. but the question is,

do you personally support data ukraine's application for fast track membership? i personally stand by the decisions we have made, which is on, on saying that natal story remains open on that equation one day will be a member of, of, of the alliance. but the, but the short term, the priority now is, is on providing support to ukraine. to enable them to make more gains on the battlefield and then to ensure that we can end the war in way that ensures that ukraine remains in the plantation in europe. that's a precondition for any discussion about the ship you have though, and i just like to quote you here. you have supported finland and sweden bed. you came out and you said this would be a historic moment. why do you dodge clearly answering whether or not you support ukraine in a fast track?

but because i strongly believe that your brain is in a different position done in an uncertain or opinions written or long term partners over over of natal. we have a consensus in the lines on inviting them to become members. we made that decision out. the summit in madrid in, in may well to see in ukraine is a war going on. and the topic is therefore to provide military support ukraine. us. we do as many as well as importers and this mentor support is unprecedented, and really helped the ukrainians to now make gains on the battlefield. of course, the victors on the battlefield is something that belongs to the brave ukrainian soldiers. but without the support from us, they would not been able to make these gains and to push the russian invading forces back associate last weeks. but if we look back in 2008,

nato pledge that ukraine would eventually become an alliance member. ukraine, of course, has us on paper, didn't need to give false hope, see ukraine all those years ago. no us. and this is still the ambition of the, the alliance. but the focus has been since 2008 on the reforms on the capacity building on the, on supporting ukraine in moving towards nate to membership. i also know that you members have been working with ukraine moving towards membership . but of course, since 2014, we have been in a situation where russia hoss onyx from ya, on the uncontrolled eastern part of, of dawn was. so the main focus has then been to provide mentors support to grain and natal. last, especially united states that the kingdom canada have trained and equipped to create new forces, not since february, but since 2014 and hasn't showed up to can on forces are much bigger,

much better train much but the lead. what if it's a quick, now the 2014, and this is making huge difference on the battlefield speak. let's turn briefly to your strategic concept then into future threats. at the chinese communist party congress president, she's paying said the china with use and i'm quoting your all necessary measures to secure taiwan is the next conflict for native with china. taiwan is all the need to a member. so i will collect the defense schools. doesn't apply for taiwan, but what we see is the secretary general, how responded if time were to invade taiwan? how would nato respond? i'm not going to outline exactly, nate, the world respond. what we have stated clearly, and that's for the 1st time in our strategic concept, is that the right? so china not the stronger security. and it's as a challenge for our values for interest,

for our security. and that is the course. china is not investing heavily in you more than many take a big, long range, missiles nuclear weapons. we see how they don't share our values and the weather cracked on on them, graphic invoices, forces in hong kong. them. i know it is the views and also how they coerce countries in the region. so all of this makes it important for us to address, right. so china not, but obviously the china, china is important also to engage with. and therefore, we are both addressing the security challenges, but also the need to engage with china do. and i met recently with chinese for ms. and that was my main message to him, the head of the british cyber intelligence agency. he put it this way. he describes the security threat posed by russia as affecting the weather. well, china's affects the climate. what do you think there is to be learned from allies

support of ukraine against the russian invasion? should china move to invade or, or t illegally annex territory? that's oldest unacceptable. dot dot the country trying to grab a line from another country. and that's the reason why we have reacted so strongly against the russian invasion of ukraine. because this is the biggest land grab since the 2nd world war world war in, in the, in europe. and also why we convey to, to, to china, of course, they should be able to at least condemn the illegal war of russia against ukraine. and also one of the reasons why we support ukraine is to send the message to all the author, leaders that we don't accept this kind of behavior. i'd like to also ask you, you said last week, that when we look at the situation in ukraine,

that allies have had to dip into their own arsenals in order to send supplies. there were needle members too complacent because if you look just at the 1st half of the year, only 9 members were spending 2 percent of g d, p or more on defense. now, it seems to be a bit of a scramble in order to, you know, get stockpiles and increase production capacities. and it's coming a, made a hard economic times. can it stay a priority? we have, we have pushed for more defense investments across the lines for many years. and of course we would like to see even more defense spending. having said that, what you have seen since 2014 is the biggest to enforcement in naples. collect the fence since the end of the cold war, uncontrolled through $14.00 for cutting defense spending since 2014 all night long was have increased the fund spending with hundreds of millions of extra us dollars . and we have increase the liveness of forces for the 1st time in history. we have

bathrooms in eastern part lines, and all of this will triggered by the russian annexation of coming and under control over is done and done boss. so we were actually prepared when the innovation happened in february. we actually want to gayden state since last fall, shed intelligence, depicting exactly the russian plans to invade ukraine. on the day of the invasion, we activated the defense bonds for that increased on inter pistons in these briefly before we go, secretary general must put and go for there to be a resolution and ukraine. yes or no? yeah, i will not. but then you will force me to, to, given the yes or no answer to that. what we will do is that we will respond to the actions of rachada gorda. so who's in charge there? and we will continue to call and to end this war, it was present that started this war and it's put that trust and putting an end this war to morrow. why join us forces?

we have to remember that it's chris and truitt and russia stop. so i think there will be peace, presto, savanski, and ukraine stubs why thing ukraine will cease to exist as the in the plantation. i, we don't want our top and that's exactly why we provide support to great nato secretary general against impaired. thank you very much for joining us on conflicts out. thank you for your time. with ah, ah ah

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a desire to be targeted. environmentalists in danger starts october 29th on d, w. ah ah. this is dw news line from berlin flooded. we are putting declares martial law in for ukraine in regions announcement title moscow script on territories that russia illegally annexed last month. meanwhile, putin's top general in ukraine admit that his front line troops are facing difficulties. also coming.